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The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )

 
Scribe for Prophet Elijah
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
God's chosen and elect are few. They are the ones who have ears to hear and eyes to see.


.
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 06:28 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
calling mopar28 out?


lol Anyone who follows these customs, I guess. tounge
 Quoting: Goddrunk





Anyone who follows these "customs"? Like Jesus? Like the Apostle Paul perhaps?
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
OOPS... I forgot the last (and most important part of that passage:

""Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Error of Replacement Theology
[link to www.therefinersfire.org]

debunked jesuit apologizing

there's plenty of dangerous christian movements to go around, including your futurism.
[link to continuingcounterreformation.blogspot.com]


Let's add SDA-ism to that list as well.
 Quoting: Goddrunk





Quote:

"Let's add SDA-ism to that list as well."



Go ahead and add it, but you do so erroneously.
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 06:38 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
For those who wish to understand the falsity of Seventh-Day Adventism, please refer to the following links:

Introduction

The history of the Seventh Day Adventist Church
[link to www.carm.org]

Church structure of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
[link to www.carm.org]

What does Seventh Day Adventism teach?
[link to www.carm.org]

Issues and Answers

Does the Bible allow Christians to worship on Sunday?
[link to www.carm.org]

Scriptures dealing with the first day of the week.
[link to www.carm.org]

Does CARM recommend the Seventh-day Adventist Church?
[link to www.carm.org]

Resources

[link to www.formeradventist.com]
 Quoting: Goddrunk








You are so full of false doctrine, it's scary. And when I read through all of the absolute garbage that you keep providing links for, it's REALLY scary that anybody is so easily deceived by all of the misrepresentations, distortions, and outright LIES on these sites.

Sickening, especially when considering that the rabid person doing it, is so captivated by the BIGGEST and most OBVIOUS lies being sold in "Christendom" today.
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 06:47 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
What is Historicism?

The Historicist prophetic interpretation is a progressive and on going fulfillment of prophecy.

The Historicist believes that the book of Revelation explains (in symbols) the entire course of history of the Church from the first century A.D. to the end of time.
What Was the Origin of Historicism?

The Historicist doctrine had its roots and teachings from some of the early church fathers.

These early church fathers continued with additional teachings and ideas over a period of at least four centuries.

The exact year the term ‘Historicist’ came to be is not known, but the teachings and interpretations began around the latter of first century A.D.

Historicism has to be updated and changed since its beginning, because of the many ‘chosen’ historical events that have passed.

There are at least five different definitions of Historicism.

1. The historical account starts in the time of Daniel, (around 600 B.C.)

2. The historical account starts at the time of Christ, (0-34 A.D.)

3. The historical account starts at, or around 70 A.D.

4. Matthew chapter 24 is fulfilled.

5. Matthew chapter 24 is partly fulfilled.


What are some problems with Historicism?

According to the Bible, the prophecies had immediate meanings for the people to whom they were written.

The Bible does not say hundreds or thousands of years, but soon; quickly; or near. (See: Rev.1:1-3.)

All prophecy is a testimony of Jesus Christ and his gospel. For example: The book of Revelation is a symbolic portrayal of what Christ has already done and its relevance for that future. Jesus Christ is at the center of the prophecies, not men and/or the history of men.

Historicism picks and chooses which historical events that will best fit what they think is a fulfillment. Therefore, Historicism can be labeled as a ‘jigsaw puzzle or match game’, because it tries to match or fit Bible prophecies and symbols with past historical and current events.

Historicism will always try to find a sequence of events that starts from the time the prophecy was written, right up to our present period of time.


Summary

1. Historicism is not a Biblical doctrine.

2. Historicism is a doctrine of men, with unbiblical teachings and interpretations.

3. It is a teaching and doctrine that began with the early church fathers, and cannot be found in the Bible.

4. Historicists pick and choose which historical events that will best fit what theythink is a fulfillment. Therefore, Historicism is a ‘jigsaw puzzle or a match game’.

The Historicist notes that the Revelation had its function first in counseling and for encouraging the early Christians in that period of time, but at the sametime extending its prophetic symbols beyond their understanding and range of vision for the far future.

If anyone doesn’t believe or understand the first three verses of Revelation,neither will they believe or understand the rest of the book.

When a person is stubborn and/or unwilling to accept and believe these verses then the rest of the book can mean anything that the reader desires. It is then impossible for anyone to allow the Bible to interpret itself, and men can make up any interpretation they want.

Historicism is a fable.

[link to www.victorparma.com]
 Quoting: Goddrunk





Everything you post, is so absolutely chocked full of distortions and complete misapplication, that I feel like it is BEYOND a waste of time to try and get through to someone so incredibly deceived. It would take me DAYS of non-stop typing, to cover EACH and EVERY point you bring (and I DO have an answer for everything I see posted by you). But would it be WORTH it? Just to receive some BS, smug, arrogant, and DELUDED response in return?

NO.

You just keep heading the way you are heading, pretending that you speak in behalf of God. He will tell you, like he will tell ALL of the lawless... "Depart from Me. I never knew you."
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 06:50 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
You are so deep in your apostacy and error, you must be drunk, Goddrunk!

You are denying the very teachings of Yeshua and even denying Him, as He is Lord of the Sabbath.

YHWH will deal with you for your blasphemy.

I truly pity you!


I'll pray for you too. hf
 Quoting: Goddrunk




Quote:


"I'll pray for you too. hf"


I've always noticed that those who sarcastically say this to people, are generally the biggest ACTORS, and are further from God, than most non-believers.
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 06:51 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
All you Christian freaks look batshit crazy!!! WOW!!
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 07:07 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Sabbath keeping or Festival keeping is not commanded to be kept not even once in the entire New Testament. But here is a list of things that are required we should and should not do:

References for the 9 "moral" commandments reiterated in the New Testament:


1st - Worship God -

(53 times) Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22(x2),23,24(x2); 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23(x2); 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9

2nd - No Idolatry -

(20 times) Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15

3rd - No Profanity -

(4 times) Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9

5th - Honor Parents -

(6 times) Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2

6th - Murder -

(7 times) Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11

7th - Adultery -

(12 times) Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14

8th - Stealing -

(6 times) Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28

9th - Lying -

(4 times) Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20

10th - Don't Covet -

(9 times) Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14

 Quoting: Goddrunk








Quote:

"Sabbath keeping or Festival keeping is not commanded to be kept not even once in the entire New Testament."



You really ARE drunk, I guess. Jesus told us that the Sabbath was to be kept, and that it was so important, that you should (LONG after He left earth):

"Pray that your flight not be in winter, or on the Sabbath day." Matthew 24;20


Isaiah made it clear that the sabbath would be kept on the NEW earth:

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, said the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, said the LORD." Isaiah 66:22-23


Are you telling me that the Sabbath was to be kept in the Old Testament, then NOT KEPT in the New Testament, and then KEPT AGAIN on the new Earth?

Even though Jesus kept it, the women who came to the tomb on the 1st day, kept it, and the Apostle Paul kept it?







There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God. Just as there remains the rest of the moral law, which endures forever.

These "9 commandment" people REALLY crack me up.

Unbelievable.
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 07:09 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
All you Christian freaks look batshit crazy!!! WOW!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 850472




You godless pukes with absolutely no meaningful reason for existing, look crazy.

Yikes!
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 07:11 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
All you Christian freaks look batshit crazy!!! WOW!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 850472





"For you are an holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a peculiar people to himself, above all the nations that are on the earth." Deuteronomy 14:2
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
While your futuristic version of the antichrist is mostly correct, leaving out the verses of Paul,

Your idea that keeping the commandments is dangerous or an aid to the anti-christ, if that is what you are implying is based upon flawed logic.

For the people the antichrist fight are those who keep the testimony of Jesus Christ and the commandments of God. If he is fighting them, how does that make us an accomplice?

It doesn't.

The people that side with the antichrist, the catholic church, who's main founder, by deed if not by purpose, was Paul.

The current mainstream church is pagan and corrupt.

I advise you to leave the current mainstream churches and study the bible from the point of view of Jesus instead of Paul.


I don't think that keeping the commandments is dangerous. I just don't think we are required to keep the Sabbath, or keep the Jewish Festivals, or be circumcised; but I am not against doing such things (non-religiously, that is). If God wants you to keep the Festival a certain day because He wants to show you something special or wants you to do something special that day; or if He wants you to keep the Sabbath that day for the same purpose, that is between YOU and God; and should not affect how I worship God or how He wants me to do what He wants me to do that day or any day.
 Quoting: Goddrunk






I'm figuring you for one of those Calvary Chapel nuts. Or at least someone who has bought into their radio programming.
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 07:17 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
While your futuristic version of the antichrist is mostly correct, leaving out the verses of Paul,

Your idea that keeping the commandments is dangerous or an aid to the anti-christ, if that is what you are implying is based upon flawed logic.

For the people the antichrist fight are those who keep the testimony of Jesus Christ and the commandments of God. If he is fighting them, how does that make us an accomplice?

It doesn't.

The people that side with the antichrist, the catholic church, who's main founder, by deed if not by purpose, was Paul.

The current mainstream church is pagan and corrupt.

I advise you to leave the current mainstream churches and study the bible from the point of view of Jesus instead of Paul.


I don't think that keeping the commandments is dangerous. I just don't think we are required to keep the Sabbath, or keep the Jewish Festivals, or be circumcised; but I am not against doing such things (non-religiously, that is). If God wants you to keep the Festival a certain day because He wants to show you something special or wants you to do something special that day; or if He wants you to keep the Sabbath that day for the same purpose, that is between YOU and God; and should not affect how I worship God or how He wants me to do what He wants me to do that day or any day.
 Quoting: Goddrunk







Quote:

"I don't think that keeping the commandments is dangerous. I just don't think we are required to keep the Sabbath, or keep the Jewish Festivals, or be circumcised; but I am not against doing such things (non-religiously, that is). If God wants you to keep the Festival a certain day because He wants to show you something special or wants you to do something special that day; or if He wants you to keep the Sabbath that day for the same purpose, that is between YOU and God; and should not affect how I worship God or how He wants me to do what He wants me to do that day or any day."




Keeping the Sabbath is a commandment. Not a recommendation. It is to be kept like the other commandments, AS WRITTEN.

God COMMANDED it, so it is IS a "moral" issue. Anything God commands, and you refuse, IS a "moral issue".
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 07:21 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Sabbath keeping was a sign between Israel and God, nothing more. It was a lot like the sign between Abraham and God, which was circumcision.

7.) The sabbath was given to Israel (Neh. 9:13-14). Although it was patterned after the creation model, this 24-hour rest was obviously not identical to God´s permanent rest which followed a finished creation (Gen. 2:2-3; Heb. 4:3,4,10). The sabbath was the sign of the Mosaic, Sinaitic, or old covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezek. 20:12). Most scholars now agree there is no evidence of a sabbath institution outside Israel.

Also, I am aware that Seventh-Day Adventists are not the only sect to keep the Sabbath; there are many different sects which do also. Again, there is a huge difference between choosing to worship God on the Sabbath (Saturday), and requiring that people worship on Sabbath. The latter is Unbiblical.
 Quoting: Goddrunk





Quote:

"Again, there is a huge difference between choosing to worship God on the Sabbath (Saturday), and requiring that people worship on Sabbath. The latter is Unbiblical."



YOU, are unbiblical.


Nice red hooded robe on your avatar, by the way.

Ohhh... And also, any time the word "drunk" was mentioned in the bible, it was ALWAYS (EVERY SINGLE TIME) in a negative connotation. there IS no such thing biblically, as "drunk in the spirit", just so you know.

You can tell a lot form a persons avatar, and username.
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 07:22 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Hebrews 9:4
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 07:26 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
OP, the 7th day Sabbath was ordained by God before there was Abraham and Israel, that is why the Sabbath Commandment is the only Commandment which God Commands to 'remember'...yet, you seem to be taking on yourself to tell others to forget about it.

Also, it is written that there shall be only one Law for Israel and the foreigner...yet, you seem to be suggesting that it isnt' so. Where do you get this doctrine from?

You also seem to be cherry picking in regards to which of the Ten Commandments of God that you desire to keep...remember if you break just one, you are guilty of all.


Provide one New Testament verse which clearly states we must keep the Sabbath. Just one.
 Quoting: Goddrunk




Matthew 24:20, where Jesus was asked by the disciples about the signs of His coming, and of the end of the age.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Hebrews 9:4
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 931342




You mean 4:9
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 07:30 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
"Provide one New Testament verse which clearly states we must keep the Sabbath. Just one."




Matthew 24:20
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Hebrews 9:4




You mean 4:9
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 933516

You don't like Hebrews 9:4?
Goddrunk  (OP)

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04/04/2010 07:35 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
It's not an upside-down cross. And I am not a shill.


Then why are you so slow in comprehension?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 933875


Concerning what?
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
- Matthew 11:15
Goddrunk  (OP)

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04/04/2010 07:37 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
calling mopar28 out?


lol Anyone who follows these customs, I guess. tounge





Anyone who follows these "customs"? Like Jesus? Like the Apostle Paul perhaps?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 933516


Follows as in "lawfully" follows, which is not New Testament at all.
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
- Matthew 11:15
Goddrunk  (OP)

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04/04/2010 07:37 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Error of Replacement Theology
[link to www.therefinersfire.org]

debunked jesuit apologizing

there's plenty of dangerous christian movements to go around, including your futurism.
[link to continuingcounterreformation.blogspot.com]


Let's add SDA-ism to that list as well.





Quote:

"Let's add SDA-ism to that list as well."



Go ahead and add it, but you do so erroneously.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 933516


Not really.
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
- Matthew 11:15
Goddrunk  (OP)

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04/04/2010 07:41 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Hebrews 9:4
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 931342


Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
- Matthew 11:15
Goddrunk  (OP)

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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Matthew 24:20, where Jesus was asked by the disciples about the signs of His coming, and of the end of the age.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 933516


This will be in Israel during the Tribulation period.
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
- Matthew 11:15
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
If you want to do exactly what Jesus did, shouldn't you go to the synagogue on the sabbath? And shouldn't you be a Jew like Jesus?
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 07:49 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
It's not an upside-down cross. And I am not a shill.


Then why are you so slow in comprehension?


Concerning what?
 Quoting: Goddrunk


LOLOL.

Ditto, recursively as well.
Goddrunk  (OP)

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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
It's not an upside-down cross. And I am not a shill.


Then why are you so slow in comprehension?


Concerning what?


LOLOL.

Ditto, recursively as well.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 933875


scratching
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."
- Matthew 11:15
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2010 08:40 AM
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Hebrews 9:4


Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
 Quoting: Goddrunk


How does that relate to Hebrews 9:4?
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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
That cross suits the OP. Could be he is a descendant of the Merovingian crusaders who put millions to death in cold blood. They too wore crosses like him.
eh steve

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Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )
Not to very long ago most people new for a fact that the world was flat or that the earth was the center of the universe.

My point?

People need to be careful of what they firmly believe in, They just might be mistaken.

For many years, I walked a somewhat casual non-religious faith in Jesus. Recently, I have been studying and learning some new things spiritually.
One of those truths is Yahweh/God-Yahshua/Jesus wants us to know and use His name.

I now have a new fervor to study and learn more of God's covenants and ways through His words. I plan to learn more about the feasts and festivals, not to try and live religiously under the "law" but mainly to just learn more about Him.

The "church" has been influenced by paganism and much of it is corrupted. I believe I hear God saying today(again), to His people, "Come out of Babylon".

Last Edited by eh steve on 04/04/2010 09:11 AM





GLP