The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message )

I just gave you proof.

As for going to church every saturday or sabbath or sunday, the Israelites were not commanded to go to the temple or a temple every sabbath.

In fact, they were only commanded to gather together as a tribe on the last feasts, the day of atonement, and the feast of tabernacles. They were commanded, as a family unit, to keep the passover together. But as a nation, or community, that was at the end of the year.

Jewish people, during the diaspora, congregated during the sabbath days, it became a tradition to do this. When they came back to Israel the city dwellers kept this tradition.

Now, please quit calling Jesus a liar. He said that we would be greater in heaven if we taught the law. What about that do you find hard to understand?

The op seems to be trying disregard the "Old Testament", not taking into consideration that the "New Testament" are letters comprised with Teachings of the "Old".

In the Letter of James, the true believers are instructed that, if you break just one of the Ten Commandments of the God and Father of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, then, you are gulty of all...however, the op disregards that fact while maintaining his justification by stating: "nowhere in the new testament are we commanded to keep the sabbath"...and also "there only evidence of the keeping of 9 moral laws".

The op also disregards this follow "New Testament" Scriptures:


Luke 23:55 And the women also, which came with him (Jesus) from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

religious

:bullshitb:

:laumonk:

PITY people who take religion seriously (!) :bs:

The Law, which I posted, did not include Sabbath keeping or Festivals. I've already posted verses which state we do not have to keep the Sabbath or Festivals. I will post them again.

References for the 9 "moral" commandments reiterated in the New Testament:


1st - Worship God -

(53 times) Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22(x2),23,24(x2); 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23(x2); 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9


2nd - No Idolatry -

(20 times) Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15


3rd - No Profanity -

(4 times) Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9


4th - Keep Sabbath.

(0 times) Not one verse.


5th - Honor Parents -

(6 times) Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2


6th - Murder -

(7 times) Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11


7th - Adultery -

(12 times) Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14


8th - Stealing -

(6 times) Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28


9th - Lying -

(4 times) Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20


10th - Don't Covet -

(9 times) Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14


Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."

Galatians 4:9-11
"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

Colossians 2:16-17
"Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

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Jealousy will get you nowhere.

I'm actually not disregarding Old Testament. If anything, I'm taking it into high regard, and distinguishing the difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant.

are we still at this?

jesus told people to follow the law. he told folks to show themselves to the priests after being healed.

to think that keeping the law is not good just blows my mind.

gee, i wonder who took the verses out about the sabbath?

you are such a catholic.

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In my view, op, by your response, you seem to have disregarded my recent post or youve' attempted to spin it.

OP, what is your interpretation on the followong 'new Testament" Scripture:

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

nothing has changed. god doesnt change. what universe are you from???

i think you are a do-over. if you want to do what you think you are doing then i suggest you start from scratch and forget all that doctrine of men you have been taught. its your problem, you fix it. but for goodness sake, quit leading others into error just to stroke yourself.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

its seems foolish for a reason. it keeps people like you from doing any more damage than within the confines of this planet. i think its a good system.

do they teach classes in your group on how to do that?

James 2:13-15 (King James Version)

13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:17-19 (King James Version)

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Luke 18:8
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

It means what is important is in the heart. Following God is more important than what you can and can not do in the sight of men.

good stuff, AC.

baal, in hebrew, means lord or husband. the jews didnt think they were worshiping anyone other than the true god. this schism was no different than the reformation and the catholic denominations today, protestant or otherwise. and they are just as fucked.

better watch out or i will rain fire down and clean this mess up.

what is your cross? what do you do that will get you killed? what marks you for ownership of the one true god? what good is a servant who never does anything?

I'll let God be my judge. If you think I'm wrong, pray for me.

why dont you ask the father?

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

dont take any mans word for it.

James 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

if youre interested.

Chuck Missler - Important Rapture Cult leader who is notorious for brazenly lying to his audience to curry favor. An entertaining public speaker popular on the cult circuit, Missler rolls out detailed and elaborate prevarications to pump up the Rapture Cult lie the doctrine was taught in the early church. In a typical presentation, in a rapid fire fashion, Chuck Missler will cite over a dozen ancient Christians (Irenaues, Hippolytus, Jerome, etc), with dates that sound authentic, and categorically state they all taught the pre-tribulation fraud. To an unlearned Christian, such a presentation is compelling.

Christian Media's James Lloyd, compiled recordings of the aforementioned presentations and reduced them to transcript form. He then tracked down the actual statements from each historical figure, and discovered not one ancient teacher or writer cited taught the pre-tribulation rapture! The results of that research, including the actual transcript of statments, formed a significant portion of the book The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty In Dispensationalism by James Lloyd. The bottom line is, Chuck Missler is a very clever liar, and the Bible says "whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" is found in the eternal company of "dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolators...." (Revelation 22:15)

i beat you to the punch, mister.

Romans 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

1 Thessalonians 5:17
Pray without ceasing.

Thank you! I will send my prayers out for you as well. God bless you.

man, thats a lot of words to say nothing.

Fixed

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Op, please excuse me, I should have been more percise in my question....allow me to try again.

OP, what do you believe the follow "New Testament Scripture" means in regards to the Ten Commandments of the God and Father of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

thats just a cop out. i dont think youre wrong, i know you are. but that doesnt do either one of us any good, does it?

i do wish you well.

ok, thats a good deal.

Matthew, chapter 5 "48": Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Op you keep posting things like the following versus to correct the Creator and the Messiah.

Why do you never quote the dozens of times Paul upholds the law? Why do you only take numbered soundbytes out of Paul's LETTERS called verses to prove your point? Why do you not quote Paul when he upholds the law? or let us get to the real heart of the matter, why do your religious leaders who have taught you lawlessness not quote them?

If you are truly willing to learn, I will be glad to go through a few of these verses for you. If you are set in your religious ways I will not waste my time.

Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."

As far as Romans Chapter 14 goes this is one of the most least understood chapters in the Scriptures for one very small reason.............This entire chapter is about Jewish concepts and Hebraic thought. This is all about Rabbinical teachings between certain schools.

Some Rabbis taught you were to fast on the 2nd day, some rabbis taught to fast on the 3rd day. This entire Chapter is about JEWISH practices during Paul's day.

The word Broma is used 3 times in regards to food. Broma means clean according to the Torah. Once again this is speaking of rabbinical tradition when former pharisees would eat with gentiles. To this very day if you invite a Ultra Orthodox Jew to dinner and you are a gentile they will only eat a Salad.

This is a chapter that makes 100% sense to a Jewish person, but zero sense to a gentile.

here is a excellent study on Romans 14 from a Hebraic point of view.

[link to www.yashanet.com]

Galatians 4:9-11
"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

I have addressed this before on this thread, but it seems you did not read it or you disregard it. This book is to the called out assemblies in the geographical region of Galatia. This area is full of GENTILE PAGANS. These Gentile pagans never knew the Creator or the Torah to begin with.

All a person has to do is read Acts chapter 14 to read about Shaul's first encounter with the Galatians. After healing a man these pagans though Paul was Zeus/Jupiter who was born on December 25th. These pagans kept pagan holidays. These Gentiles had returned to the vommit Shaul had brought them out of.

A person only needs to read Acts to see proof that cannot even be debated that Paul kept the Feast, kept the Sabbath, and participated in Temple sacrifice. (not to mention circumcising Timothy) If Paul kept the Feast and then kept the Sabbaths, but attacked others for doing so he would be a utter hypocrite. Paul is chewing these GENTILES WHO NEVER KNEW ELOHIM AND NEVER KEPT THE TORAH IN THE FIRST PLACE FOR RETURNING TO THEIR PAGAN WAYS.

This cannot even be debated.

Colossians 2:16-17
"Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

once again this is a utterly bogus translation taken out of context. If you actually would read the scriptures you would know that if Paul truly said this then he would be a false prophet.

BUT what does this scripture really say without translation bias of almost 2,000 years of church dogma? You know the same church that burned people at the stake, killed, banished, and destroyed people for keeping the Sabbath, or doing anything remotely jewish?

What is Paul saying here to these former pagans turned followers of the HEBREW Messiah? This verse literally translated says:

Therefor do not let anyone judge you (The pagans who live around you in Corinth) for eating BROMA, meat that is clean according to the Torah, or in respect to keeping a Feast of YHWH, or keeping the new moon (Creator's calender and how his time was kept), or a Sabbath day. THESE THINGS ARE ALL SET APART REHEARSALS OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, FOR THE BODY OF THE MESSIAH.

Buddy paul is saying the 180 degree exact opposite of what the churches tell you he is saying. Paul is telling you as a Gentile to not let the pagan sun god worshipers around you judge you because you keep the Feast, Sabbaths, and eat clean foods.

NO!!!!!! Only if he has never heard!!! If you deny Jesus I'm sorry but you're on your own. If the Lord has mercy then that is obviously His call. Our Call is to take our cross and follow Him

You guys are trying to tie a millstone around people's necks. The 'Law" is more than the 10 Commandments. If you put yourself under Mosaic Law you would have to do it better than the High Priests do. Do you wear fabrics of mixed content? If so you're breaking the Law. Do you practice Jubilee (the world will be a lot better for it)? There is a slew of stuff in Leviticus that we don't follow. It all comes down to FULFILL. What did our Lord men by that?


Peace be with you

Btw let me just also point out another bogus translation in English Bibles.

"There remains therefore a rest to the people of God."

This should be literally translated as "There remains a SABBATH KEEPING TO THE PEOPLE OF ELOHIM"

The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath