Electrical Arcs Traveling in Space

It´s well known to science that there are current flows in space. Unfortunately that fact alone deosn´t support the "electric universe" theory.

In fact, this so called theory has many many holes in it which its supporters keep ignoring, and which make it completely invalid as a scientific idea.

Sophism.

[link to www.badastronomy.com]

"He makes this claim because it sets up a later claim about comets gaining mass. We´ll get to that in just a moment, but since that part depends on the solar wind not being neutral, let´s get this out of the way first.

All normal matter is made up of three types of particles: electrons, which have a negative charge, protons, which have a positive charge, and neutrons, which are neutral.

a wind from the Sun The Sun is a big ball of gas. It emits a wind of particles from its surface, called, of course, the solar wind. According to McCanney, this wind has a net positive charge because "it continually ejects large composite streamers of primarily protons in the solar wind" (from his book "Planet X Comets & Earth Changes", page 54).

This is simply wrong. There are many experiments in space which directly measure the solar wind, and have found it to be ionized, but electrically neutral. In other words, the same number of positive and negative particles are emitted (see, for example, here, or here, or here). If the Sun´s wind were primarily positive particles, then the Sun would build up a vast negative charge on its surface. This would affect everything about the Sun, from its magnetic field to the way the surface features behave. We see no indications at all that the Sun has a huge negative charge.

For McCanney to make this claim is just bizarre, and completely contradictory to all evidence. But he´s stuck with it, because it´s basic to his other silly claims."

PS - you should check your URLs before posting them. It should be :-

[link to www.newton.dep.anl.gov]

You often get the jumbled version copying from a web page. Try using the right click "copy link" or "copy shortcut" next time. HTH

hold on, idol...

I misunderstood the statement given in the article about dust particles in a vacuum carrying the spark. The problem is, as it states in the article, is that the spark doesn´t move from point A to point B. What to do? Well, what if it were the coronal gases emanating from the sun which could provide the electron means for carrying the arc?

ok, idol, are you 100% certain the wind is neutral?

I don´t know physics and I´m not an electrician.

But...

It has always "seemed" to me that we live in a mirror-image dimension where there is a duplicate (of an original) for our 3-D perceptions.

Thus, if you have a ´spark´ then that is a copy of the original (or pattern for the effect) and pre-exists our 3-D perception.

If that is the case, then there does not have to be matter, as we know it, to create the arc.

The arc will be the magic of life, the living etheral of the original spark and its duplicate in 3-D.

OK to flame away, if you desire, but first take a look at the picture of Bush on Rense today.

rense.com

Man, this is getting INTERESTING...

idol, apparently there is research which suggests that such things as pick-up ions exist. This would take protons, neutrons(the NEUTRALS) and electrically charge them and give off electrons. Fascinating!

Maybe the Electrical Universe theory is a valid one after all. Seems I´m not the only one who thought of this.

Take THAT! idol!

[link to solar-heliospheric.engin.umich.edu]

"Another subject of recent interest in our research are pick-up ions. Pick-up ions come about when neutral particles become ionized and are then swept into the heliosphere by the Sun´s magnetic field that is carried into space by the solar wind. There are three ways in which these neutrals become ionized:

Photoionization can take place in which photons from the Sun bombard the neutrals and tranfer their energy to them, causing the neutral to emit an electron and become charged

A charge exchange can take place, where a charged particle and a neutral particle exchange an electron, causing the neutral to become charged

Electron impact ionization occurs when an electron has enough energy to collide with a neutral to knock off an electron from it, making it a charged particle

The interstellar medium is the main source of the neutrals that pick-up ions come from. They can also be knocked off of interplanetary dust grains (and are then called inner source pick-up ions). The diagram below shows how pick-up ions make their way into the solar wind from the interstellar medium on a magnetic field line."

"Well, what if it were the coronal gases emanating from the sun which could provide the electron means for carrying the arc?"

The problem is that there is no charge to produce any spark as the matter leaving the sun has zero net charge.

Uh...that´s from the engineering dept. at a Michigan University.

Read above idol. It IS possible!

== Quote ==========================================
I don´t know physics and I´m not an electrician.
===================================================

Then why did you keep typing?

By golly, I think this is the key to the Electrical Universe theory.

Pick-up ions.

Now, P, idol, and all the rest. Here is proof of the seemingly impossibile being, well...possible. The evidence is there. Do you reject or do you take it under consideration? My bet is the same ole´ shrill debunking campaign will ensue.

I keep typing because I paid my two cents and I want to get my money´s worth.

Look where Jim McCanney has been complaining about plagarization of his Electric Universe theory:

[link to www.jmccanneyscience.com]

Is it his theory only?

Where is border control when you want it!

Electrical arcs are discussed by JJ Hurtak in the Keys of Enoch.

Have any of you fine people read the book?

Nothing is more futile than trying to educate a Velikovskyite...

The woo-woos forgot that the dielectric breakdown of vacuum is about 24MV/m and Earth´s E field is about 100V/m. So Earth does not genereate the required field to produce an "interplanetary spark".

Bumping for the electro-woo-woos.

"Electrical arcs are discussed by JJ Hurtak in the Keys of Enoch.

Have any of you fine people read the book?"

Working on it. The book is a ´doosie´.

"This would take protons, neutrons(the NEUTRALS) and electrically charge them and give off electrons. Fascinating!"

You see, this is where the saying about a little knowledge being dangerous comes in.

The paper is talking about neutral ATOMS, not neutrons.

There´s a BIG difference.

User ID: 16815
Working on it. The book is a ´doosie´.


It is one of those books where you can ´work on it´ LOL Ive had it for years, dipped in it here and there and this year decided to find an on line class to study it seriously. Best thing I did.

Im going to go look for the electrical arcs reference in the keys.

The only electrical arts you´ll see in space is if some silly astronaut drops his copy of EA SPORTS TIGER WOODS 2005 out of the hangar bay on the shuttle.

I ask anyone to read a bit about static electricity and the dielectric breakdown process before buying this Electric Universe nonsense.

SPACE IS NOT, REPEAT NOT A VACUUM.

HERE IS AN EXCERPT FROM PARROTS WEB SITE WHICH EXPALINS THE MECHANICS VERY WELL.

QUOTE

Dynamical Characteristics of Plasmas
It is the global dynamics and systematic interactions of astrophysical plasmas that allow energy to be conveyed over great distances. The evolution of cosmic plasma that includes its structuring into cells results in a relative motion, however slow, of plasma clouds whose dimensions may be measured in hundreds or megaparsecs or gigaparsecs. All plasma clouds may be considered a system: they are coupled by electrical currents (charged particles beams) they induce in each other. These beams are the source of energy transfer from large, slow moving plasma to smaller plasma regions that may release the energy abruptly or cause local plasmas to pinch to the condense state.

Power Generation and Transmission
On earth, power is generated by nuclear and nonnuclear fuels, hydro and solar energy, and to a much lesser extent, by geothermal sources and magnetohydrodynamic generators. Always, the location of the supply is not the location of major power usage or dissipation. Transmission lines are used to convey the power generated to the load region. As an example, abundant hydroelectric resources in the Pacific Northwest of the United States produce power ($sim $1,500 MW) that is then transmitted to Los Angeles, 1,330 km away, via 800 kV high-efficiency dc transmission lines. In optical and infrared emission, only the load region, Los Angeles, is visible from the light and heat it dissipates in power usage. The transmission line is invisible.

This situation is also true in space. With the coming of the space age and the subsequent discovery of magnetospheric-ionospheric electrical circuits, Kirchoff´s circuit laws were suddenly catapulted to dimensions eight orders of magnitude larger than that previously investigated in the laboratory and nearly four orders of magnitude greater than that associated with the longest power distribution systems on earth.

On earth, transmission lines consist of metallic conductors or waveguides in which energy is made to flow via the motion of free electrons (currents) in the metal or in displacement currents in a time varying electric field. Often strong currents within the line allow the transmission of power many orders of magnitude stronger than that possible with weak currents. This is because a current associated with the flow of electrons produces a self-magnetic field that helps to confine or pinch the particle flow. Magnetic-insulation is commonly used in pulsed-power technology to transmit large amounts of power from the generator to the load without suffering a breakdown due to leakage currents caused by high electric potentials.

There is a tendency for charged particles to follow magnetic lines of force and this forms the basis of transmission lines in space. In the magnetosphere-ionosphere, a transmission line 7-8 earth radii in length ($R_e$ = 6,350 km) can convey tens of terawatts of power, that derives from the solar wind-magnetosphere coupling. The transmission line is the earth´s dipole magnetic field lines along which electrons and ions are constrained to flow. The driving potential is solar-wind induced plasma moving across the magnetic field lines at large radii. The result is an electrical circuit in which electric currents cause the formation of auroras at high latitude in the upper atmosphere on earth. This aurora mechanism is observed on Jupiter, Io, Saturn, Uranus, and is thought to have been detected on Neptune and perhaps, Venus.

Only the aurora discharge is visible at optical wavelengths to an observer. The source and transmission line are invisible. Before the coming of space probes, in situ measurement was impossible and exotic explanations were often given of auroras. This is probably true of other non in situ cosmic plasmas today. The existence of a megaampere flux tube of current, connecting the Jovian satellite Io to its mother planet, was verified with the passage of the Voyager spacecraft.

Electrical Discharges in Cosmic Plasma
An electrical discharge is a sudden release of electric or magnetic stored energy. This generally occurs when the electromagnetic stress exceeds some threshold for breakdown that is usually determined by small scale properties of the energy transmission medium. As such, discharges are local phenomena and are usually accompanied by violent processes such as rapid heating, ionization, the creation of pinched and filamentary conduction channels, particle acceleration [Melrose 1997], and the generation of prodigious amounts of electromagnetic radiation.

As an example, multi-terawatt pulsed-power generators on earth rely on strong electrical discharges to produce intense particle beams, X rays, and microwaves. Megajoules of energy are electrically stored in capacitor banks, whose volume may encompass 250 m$^3$. This energy is then transferred to a discharge region, located many meters from the source, via a transmission line. The discharge region, or load, encompasses at most a few cubic centimeters of space, and is the site of high-variability, intense, electromagnetic radiation.

On earth, lightning is another example of the discharge mechanism at work where electrostatic energy is stored in clouds whose volume may be of the order of 3,000 km$^3$. This energy is released in a few cubic meters of the discharge channel.

The aurora is a discharge caused by the bombardment of atoms in the upper atmosphere by 1-20 keV electrons and 200 keV ions spiraling down the earth´s magnetic field lines at high latitudes. Here, the electric field accelerating the charged particles derives from plasma moving across the earth´s dipole magnetic field lines many earth radii into the magnetosphere. The potential energy generated by the plasma motion is fed to the upper atmosphere by multi-megaampere Birkeland currents that comprise a transmission line, 50,000 kilometers in length, as they flow into and out of the discharge regions at the polar horns. The generator region may encompass $10^{12}-10^{13}$ km$^3$ while the total discharge volume can be $10^9-10^{10}$ km$^3$.

Flickering of Electromagnetic Radiation
The flickering of a light in Los Angeles does not mean that the the supply source, a waterfall or hydroelectric dam in the Pacific Northwest, has abruptly changed dimensions or any other physical property. The flickering comes from electrical changes at the observed load or {it radiative source}, such as the formation of instabilities or virtual anodes or cathodes in charged particle beams that are orders of magnitude smaller than the supply. Bizarre and interesting non-physical interpretations are obtained if the flickering light is interpreted by a distant observer to be both the source and supply. This also holds true for astrophysical plasmas. As discussed earlier, space is not vacuum but rather filled with plasma whose properties, in volume, differ little from those in the laboratory or magnetospheres. And plasmas exhibit large {it system} global properties, such as the transfer of energy over great distances to smaller regions where it may be systematically or catastrophically released.

Filamentation: The Signature of Electrical Currents in Astrophysical Plasmas

Left: In the laboratory filaments are produced when a pulse-power generator delivers 10 trillion watts to a plasma only a few centimeters long, heating it to a temperature of 8,000,000 degrees Kelvin. Center: Similar structure is seen in solar prominences, but in this case the lengths are measured in jundreds of thousands of kilometers. Right: Long, thin structures near the center of the Milky Way stretch out over roughly 120 light-years. Another jump to a scale a few million times larger would bring us to the size of filaments that plasma cosmology needs to form galaxies.

As far as we know, most cosmic low density plasmas also depict a filamentary structure. For example, filamentary structures are found in the following cosmic plasmas, all of which are observed or are likely to be associated with electric currents:

•In the aurora, filaments parallel to the magnetic field are often observed. These can sometimes have dimensions down to about 100 m. item Inverted V events and the in-situ measurements of strong electric fields in the magnetosphere ($10^5-10^6$ A, $10^8$ m) demonstrate the existence of filamentary structures.

•In the ionosphere of Venus, ``flux ropes", whose filamentary diameters are typically 20 km, are observed. item In the sun, prominences ($10^{11}$ A), spicules, coronal streamers, polar plumes, etc., show filamentary structure whose dimensions are of the order $10^7-10^8$ m.

•Cometary tails often have a pronounced filamentary structure.

•In the interstellar medium and in interstellar clouds there is an abundance of filamentary structures [e.g., the Veil nebula, the Lagoon nebula, the Orion nebula, and the Crab nebula].

•The center of the Galaxy, where twisting plasma filaments, apparently held together by a magnetic field possessing both azimuthal and poloidal components, extend for nearly 60 pc ($10^{18}$ m).

•Within the radio bright lobes of double radio galaxies, where filament lengths may exceed 20 kpc ($6 times 10^{20}$ m).

•In extended radio sources and synchrotron emitting jets.

Regardless of scale, the motion of charged particles produces a self-magnetic field that can act on other collections of particles or plasmas, internally or externally. Plasmas in relative motion are coupled via currents that they drive through each other. Currents are therefore expected in a universe of inhomogeneous astrophysical plasmas of all sizes.

UNQUOTE

BE VERY CAREFUL, THIS CONCEPT IS NOW GAINING SOME CREDENCE AND IT WILL WHEN FULLY ACCEPTED BLOW AWAY A LOAD OF VOODOO NONSENSE.

GL

Idol says:
---- snip ----

The woo-woos forgot that the dielectric breakdown of vacuum is about 24MV/m and Earth´s E field is about 100V/m. So Earth does not genereate the required field to produce an "interplanetary spark".

---- unsnip ----

Idol, what exactly creates that 100V/m gradient you quote? You surely don´t believe that this gradient exists solely as an absolute aspect of the earth, entirely apart from it´s environment in space, do you?

And if this gradient is indeed a function of earth´s relationship to nearby space and the objects that inhabit that space, what happens when that relationship is altered by, say, the presence of something in space that was not there previously?

Hmm?

If you respond by saying that Earth´s E-field gradient is solely a function of its rotating magnetic field and/or nickel-iron core, I may as well ask you up front: how do you know "solely"?

???

Cheers!

GREY LENSMAN, thanks for that snip. Yes, the future is taking over so fast that most entrenched academics haven´t yet noticed their heads spinning!

This site explains the entire Electric Universe theory in easy-to-understand terms. I´ll wager that 95% of the posters on this site ("woo-woos" and debunkers alike) can comprehend the material given here. And once you understand that "static" electricity is much stronger than gravity, EVERYTHING falls into place. And I do mean everything!

[link to www.electric-cosmos.org]

---- snip ----

There is a revolution just beginning in astronomy/cosmology that will rival the one set off by Copernicus and Galileo. This revolution is based on the growing realization that the cosmos is highly electrical in nature. It is becoming clear that 99% of the universe is made up not of "invisible matter", but rather, of matter in the plasma state. Electrodynamic forces in electric plasmas are much stronger than the gravitational force.

Mainstream astrophysicists are continually “surprised” by new data sent back by space probes and orbiting telescopes. New information always sends theoretical astrophysicists "back to the drawing board". In light of this, it is curious that they have such "cock-sure" attitudes about the infallibility of their present models. Those models seem to require major "patching up" every time a new space probe sends back data.

Astrophysicists and astronomers do not study experimental plasma dynamics in graduate school. They rarely take any courses in electrodynamic field theory, and thus they try to explain every new discovery via gravity, magnetism, and fluid dynamics which is all they understand. It is no wonder they cannot understand that 99% of all cosmic phenomena are due to plasma dynamics and not to gravity alone.

When confronted by observations that cast doubt on the validity of their theories, astrophysicistss have conjured up pseudo-scientific invisible entities such as neutron stars, weakly interacting massive particles, strange energy, and black holes. When confronted by solid evidence such as Halton Arp´s photographs that contradict the Big Bang Theory, their response is to refuse him access to any major telescope in the U.S.

Instead of wasting time in a futile battle trying to convince entrenched mainstream astronomers to seriously investigate the Electric/Plasma Universe ideas, a growing band of plasma scientists and engineers are simply bypassing them. A new electric plasma-based paradigm that does not find new discoveries to be “enigmatic and puzzling”, but rather to be predictable and consistent with an electrical point of view, is slowly but surely replacing the old paradigm wherein all electrical mechanisms are ignored.

---- unsnip ----

I FEEL SORRY FOR THE POOR BUGGERS, YEARS GETTING A PHD, LEARNING ABOUT DARK MATTER, DARK ENERGY, BLACK HOLES, ALL THE LITTLE MANTRAS TO EXPLAIN THINGS AWAY.

SPINNING GALAXIES, JETS, PULSARS, ALL SIMPLY AND VERY RATIONALLY EXPLAINED USING PLASMAS AND ELECTRICITY.

THEY HAVE TO FAOM AT THE MOUTH. JUST HOW MANY BILLION OF DOLLARS DOES THEIR LOONY TUNES SOAK UP. WHEN A FINANCIER WAKES UP, THEY WILL HAVE TO CLAIM SOCIAL SECURITY.

GL

Problem is that they are financed principally by Uncle Sam. I would have no problem with them promoting their theories via private funding. But spending my tax dollars to promote their narrow vision of "scientific truth" is not a choice I willingly make. Instead, I am a financial slave in part to Big Science.

"Lord, free me!"