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BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid

 
TruthHurts
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06/04/2010 04:12 AM
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BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
The story has changed yet again. It keeps getting better and better. This is the Haaretz version with link as well:

Israel Navy: 3 commandos nearly taken hostage in Gaza flotilla raid


[link to www.haaretz.com]

According to preliminary navy investigation, some passengers on the Mavi Marmara boat dragged three unconscious commandos into one of the passenger halls below deck.

By Amos Harel
Tags: Israel news Gaza flotilla IDF
During Israel's takeover of a Turkish ship in the Gaza-bound aid flotilla this week, some passengers tried to take captive three commandos who lost consciousness as a result of the activists' blows, according to early findings of a navy investigation. The three were dragged into one of the passenger halls below deck and were held there for several minutes.

After dozens of other commandos began searching the ship, the Mavi Marmara, the three soldiers regained consciousness and managed to join their comrades.

Conversations with senior navy officers in the chain of command during the operation present a different view of the events on Monday. In Israel, the raid has been perceived as a failure, while abroad it has been derided as piracy or worse.

The navy rejects the claims that it was poorly prepared. Officials have been commending the commandos' performance in a situation in which they were confronted by dozens of activists who attacked them as they rappelled from helicopters. "They were terrorists - hired killers who came to murder soldiers, not to assist the residents of the Gaza Strip," said a navy officer.

The operation on the Mavi Marmara began at about 4:30 A.M. on Monday. Because of the presence of hard-core activists including members of the IHH, the Turkish group organizing the aid convoy, most attention went to that ship. Navy chief Eliezer Merom and the head of the naval commandos, Lt. Col. A., were on vessels next to the ship. Lt. Col. A. climbed on the Mavi Marmara during the takeover.

As seen on a video documenting the takeover, the first four commandos to rappel onto the deck were attacked by activists with bars, axes and knives. The fourth commando, K., saw his team leader on the deck, with a Turkish activist holding the pistol he had grabbed from him and pointing it to his head. K. jumped from the rope and managed to shoot the activist holding the gun. This happened 20 seconds after the first soldier landed on the deck.

The commanders of the first unit were hit by the mob as they landed. One of the soldiers managed to fix another rope, after there were problems with the original one, for 10 more soldiers to land. The commandos cared for the wounded and took over part of the upper deck of the ship.

At this stage, six minutes into the operation, another force landed from a second helicopter, led by a major. At that point they realized that three commandos were missing and they began looking for them. A short while later the naval commando chief landed along with dozens more soldiers, some of whom climbed from boats. Others landed from a third helicopter.

The search involved limited shooting, in the bridge and on the lower deck, until the three men were recovered. The head of the naval commandos gave orders by radio to use live fire, two minutes after the incident had begun.

Shots had been fired earlier, but Lt. Col. A. later explained that in his orders he wanted to make sure that the troops realized that "the mood of the incident had changed."

The soldiers reported that the activists had fired on them during the confrontation and that at least two commandos suffered gunshot wounds. After the incident, 9mm bullet casings were found - a kind not used by the naval commandos.

The Israel Defense Forces says that during the operation a number of pistols and an M-4 rifle were taken from soldiers, but they believe that the Turkish activists had other weapons. The captain of the ship told the naval commando chief that the guns were thrown overboard before the ship was completely taken over.

The wounded activists were airlifted to Israel for treatment, some seriously hurt whose lives were saved by the evacuation.

The IDF did not question the activists extensively because of the decision to release them. In conversations after the takeover, activists said they were surprised by the use of helicopters, even though the navy had used this method before. However, nothing else appears to have surprised them because international law requires sufficient warnings before ships are boarded.

Post-operation assessments have the number of hard-core activists involved in the fighting at between 60 and 100. It appears that they were well trained and experienced, especially in view of the arsenal found and code books used to pass on orders from group leaders. Among the rioters, in addition to Turks, were Yemenis, Afghans and one person from Eritrea. All were apparently experienced in hand-to-hand fighting. Some of them did not retreat when shots were fired.

The operation involved a month of training, with dummy takeovers of a ship at sea with 50 soldiers performing the role of activists. The navy admits that it trained mostly for "a Bil'in type of opposition, but there was no feeling that this was going to be a walk in the park." He was referring to a village at the separation fence where demonstrations take place.

The navy says it needs to look into whether the psychological preparations of the force were sufficient, and whether it had emphasized an easier scenario that did not take place.

The navy says it went over "incidents and responses" in preparation; these included opening fire at charging activists with melee weapons. In case of a threat to their lives, the commandos were ordered to shoot to kill even as they were on their way onto the deck.

"The main gap between preparations and intelligence was that we did not know we would face dozens of rioters," a senior officer involved in the operation said. "This was not a disturbance that went awry. It was a planned ambush."

Another officer added that "I still wake up at 3 A.M. and wonder how the hell we did not know more."

Another officer said said that "we became a little spoiled, as a society, expecting perfect performances."

According to a senior officer, "Under the circumstances, and I do not like the result, I think we did the best we could. We took care of five ships without injuries. On the sixth ship, we faced a harsh attack and killed nine saboteurs.

"No real peace activist was injured. No soldier was killed, even though it came pretty close. In the end the ships are docked at Ashdod. It was very complicated and the result is near perfect."
TruthHurts  (OP)

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06/04/2010 04:14 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
And now, here is the Jerusalem Post version of this same story:

We had no choice, commando who killed 6 tells 'Post'
By YAAKOV KATZ
04/06/2010


[link to www.jpost.com]

"They were coming at us with murder in their eyes," says S., describing the "battlefield" aboard the ‘Mavi Marmara’; He hit the deck to see three officers lying wounded.

When St.-Sgt. S. fast-roped down from an air force Black Hawk helicopter onto the Mavi Marmara Turkish passenger ship on Monday morning, he did not expect to be landing in what he called “a battlefield” and facing off against a group of “murderous mercenaries.”

The 15th and last naval commando from Flotilla 13 (the Shayetet) to rappel down onto the ship from the helicopter, S. said on Thursday that he was immediately attacked by what the IDF has called “the mob of mercenaries” aboard the vessel, just like the soldiers who had boarded just before him.

Looking to his side, he saw three of his commanders lying wounded – one with a gunshot wound to the stomach and another with a gunshot wound to the knee. A third was lying unconscious; his skull was fractured by a devastating blow with a metal bar.

As the next in the chain of command, S., who has been in the Shayetet for three and a half years, immediately took charge.

He pushed the wounded soldiers up against the wall of the upper deck and created a perimeter of soldiers around them to begin treating their wounds, he said. He then arranged his men to form a second perimeter, and pulled out his 9 mm. Glock pistol to stave off the charging attackers and to protect his wounded comrades.

The attackers had already seized two pistols from the commandos, and fired repeatedly at them. Facing more than a dozen of the mercenaries, and convinced their lives were in danger, he and his colleagues opened fire, he said. S. singlehandedly killed six men. His colleagues killed another three.

On Thursday, S. sat down with The Jerusalem Post at the Shayetet’s base in northern Israel for an exclusive interview, during which he described the dramatic events aboard the Mavi Marmara on Monday; he is being considered for a medal of valor.

“When I hit the deck, I was immediately attacked by people with bats, metal pipes and axes,” S. told the Post. “These were without a doubt terrorists. I could see the murderous rage in their eyes and that they were coming to kill us.”

S. does not look like a hero. Well-built, like all commandos in the Shayetet, he is also soft-spoken and stingy with words, but his commander Lt.-Col. T. fills in the blanks.

“S. did a remarkable job,” T. said. “He stabilized the situation and succeeded in hitting six of the terrorists.”

Based on preliminary results of its investigation into the navy’s takeover of the Mavi Marmara, which ended with nine dead passengers and more than 30 wounded, the IDF said on Thursday that the commandos were attacked by a well-trained group of mercenaries, most of whom were found without IDs but with thousands of dollars in their pockets.

The group was well trained and was split into a number of squads of about 20 mercenaries each distributed throughout the upper deck, the IDF said. All of the mercenaries wore gas masks and ceramic bulletproof vests and were armed with either bats, slingshots, metal bars, knives or stun grenades.

The IDF’s understanding is that the mercenaries mainly chose dual-purpose items of this sort rather than guns, since opening fire would have made it blatantly clear that they were terrorists and not so-called peace activists.

Nevertheless, the IDF suspects that the group did have some guns of its own. Israeli forensic experts who examined the ship found casings belonging to a weapon that was not used by the commandos, and the Turkish captain of the ship later told the IDF that the “mercenaries” threw their weapons overboard after the commandos took control of the vessel.

T. said he realized the group they were facing was well-trained and likely ex-military after the commandos threw a number of stun grenades and fired warning shots before rappelling down onto the deck. “They didn’t even flinch,” he said. “Regular people would move.”

Each squad of the “mercenaries” was equipped with a Motorola communication device, the IDF said, so they could pass information to one another. Assessments in the defense establishment are that members of the group were affiliated with international global jihad elements and had undergone training in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan.

S. on Thursday downplayed his involvement in the operation. “I did what I was trained to do and now I move on,” he said.

In contrast to earlier reports, the commandos said that they began using their weapons within a minute and a half after boarding the ship, due to the extreme violence they faced. One of the reasons S. pulled out his gun right after landing on the ship was because one of the mercenaries was pointing a pistol, snatched from one of the commandos, at another commando’s head.
Mujahid

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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
realwtf
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06/04/2010 04:18 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
I wouldn't really call reporting further details "changing" the story.

Do you have links showing where this report contradicts previous ones?
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Albert Einstein

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Ostria

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06/04/2010 04:22 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
So how many dead and injured commandos do we have??

Is there an official announcement on this?
TruthHurts  (OP)

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06/04/2010 04:22 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
I wanted to get this up as fast as possible before they try and edit this even further. The 2 accounts don't even jive with each other. Read the Haaretz version where it quotes, "After the incident, 9mm bullet casings were found - a kind not used by the naval commandos."

Now back to the JPost version, "He then arranged his men to form a second perimeter, and pulled out his 9 mm. Glock pistol to stave off the charging attackers and to protect his wounded comrades."

LOL, they can't even keep their own lies in order. BTW, if they had just reported this from the beginning, this would be all over by now. But no, the story was initially just beatings with sticks, then it was knives too, then it was the activists wrestling guns away from the soldiers, now it's this. It keeps evolving with more and more eyewitnesses reporting what they saw. Unbelievable. Meanwhile, all of these activists have been saying the same story from the beginning.

I first heard about commandos being taken hostage earlier today from one of the activists who had returned home. However they said that the commandos allowed the passenger wounded to be treated for wounds in exchange for the release of commando hostages. MUCH MUCH different than the IDF account. I'll try and find the link in a sec...
9teen.47™

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06/04/2010 04:24 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
rachaelThank you Ireland__:IsraelFl:

Your gracious apology is accepted. hf

Last Edited by 9teen.47™ on 06/04/2010 04:38 AM
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God.
Jer 6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate [woman].
STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobacco is worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 04:47 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
No, it didn't change. They just started hearing the soldiers' accounts.

(You really are a mean person, aren't you?)
TruthHurts  (OP)

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06/04/2010 05:20 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
I just spent the last 30 minutes trying to find the story I read about 8 hours ago and I can't find it :(

Basically it is one of the passengers giving his/her recollection of the events and they said that 3 or 4 commandos were taken hostage and that they were taken below deck. Later they were 'exchanged' back to the IDF for the right to treat the passengers that were wounded.

Hopefully someone will find this story later or it will reappear in another form. I'm not going to spend any more time searching for it right now.

I think the point that people need to take from this is that if the activists on board wanted to actually kill a commando, they could have. It's not that hard once a commando is unconscious to simply cut off his breathing.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 05:38 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
I think the point that people need to take from this is that if the activists on board wanted to actually kill a commando, they could have. It's not that hard once a commando is unconscious to simply cut off his breathing.
 Quoting: TruthHurts


Yea, sure! If I stick a knife in your back or in your stomach, as they did, don't worry, it's because I want to hug you!
TruthHurts  (OP)

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06/04/2010 05:50 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
I found a story just now (breaking on JPost) that confirms that hostages were exchanged, instead of waking up and rejoining their comrades. This again, contradicts the earlier account. Note: this is not the online story that I read earlier. I couldn't find that one but it was somewhat similar to what this is saying...

[link to www.jpost.com]

Clues undermine 'Mavi Marma' innocence
By JPOST.COM STAFF
04/06/2010

IDF finds gun-sights, coded plans; commandos were dragged below deck.

There is evidence pointing to the fact that firearms were thrown overboard by passengers of the Mavi Marmara. Investigators found gun-sights and cartridge-magazines not fitting IDF weapons in a search of the ship, Israel Radio quoted IDF sources reporting Friday morning.

Coded messages apparently referring to scenarios of soldier-kidnapping and of soldier fatalities were also found on board the ship.

RELATED:
IDF: Mercenaries to blame for violence
'We had no choice, they were coming at us with murder in their eyes'
Analysis: Why did the IDF underestimate violence of those it called 'terrorists'

Some of those aboard the ship recorded messages saying they intended to become shahids (martyrs in the cause of war against the infidels).

A Reuters report apparently confirms some of the claims of a kidnapping scenario encountered by soldiers in the raid on the Mavi Marmara.

Andre Abu Khalil, a Lebanese cameraman for Al-Jazeera TV, who was aboard the Mavi Marmara told Reuters some 20 Turkish men tried to prevent the boarding commandos from reaching the wheelhouse and commandeering the ship.

Using slingshots, metal pipes and bats they initially succeeded in wounding and overpowering four Israeli soldiers and dragging them below decks.

After about a 10-minute standoff the Israelis opened fire, the man said.

A mini-hostage-negotiation took place aboard the ship, according to the cameraman. One activist used a megaphone to tell the commandos the four captive soldiers were well and would be released if they provided medical help for wounded passengers. An Israeli Arab MK was said to have mediated in the negotiation, presumably Haneen Zoabi, and the soldiers agreed. The wounded were brought up on deck to be airlifted off the ship.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 05:51 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
We had no choice, commando who killed 6 tells 'Post'
By YAAKOV KATZ
04/06/2010


"They were coming at us with murder in their eyes," says S., describing the "battlefield" aboard the ‘Mavi Marmara’; He hit the deck to see three officers lying wounded.

When St.-Sgt. S. fast-roped down from an air force Black Hawk helicopter onto the Mavi Marmara Turkish passenger ship on Monday morning, he did not expect to be landing in what he called “a battlefield” and facing off against a group of “murderous mercenaries.”
 Quoting: TruthHurts


Well, shucks, I guess the people on the ship could see the peace the boarders had in their eyes:

[link to www.bigbluetech.net]
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Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 06:40 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
I wouldn't really call reporting further details "changing" the story.

Do you have links showing where this report contradicts previous ones?
 Quoting: Rev. Mother Nene



you said what I was about to say!
All the efforts of the haters are pretty much pathetic!
The title is lame.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 06:42 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
Sounds like the tale of Sir Robin:

"Neeeeaaaaarly taken hostage by the Chicken of Bristol."
Irdoooomed

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06/04/2010 06:46 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
Israeli commandoes must be pretty weak to be captured by unhappy protesters. I've never heard of police here in Australia ever been taken prisoner by protesters. One baton to the head and boof the protester goes down. What a cock up on the part of those commandoes.

I wouldn't really call reporting further details "changing" the story.

Do you have links showing where this report contradicts previous ones?



you said what I was about to say!
All the efforts of the haters are pretty much pathetic!
The title is lame.
 Quoting: ~GAIA~


So everyone that thinks the Israeli commandoes screwed the pooch is a hater, whatever that means.

Last Edited by Irdoooomed on 06/04/2010 06:48 AM
Twenty grand dood, it's a lot of money!

Recently homosexuals have been making anti christian threads. Think about it.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 06:51 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
I wouldn't really call reporting further details "changing" the story.

Do you have links showing where this report contradicts previous ones?



you said what I was about to say!
All the efforts of the haters are pretty much pathetic!
The title is lame.
 Quoting: ~GAIA~

this is not about hate'.

this is about justice'

your anti-semitic card is out of date.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 07:25 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
Israeli commandoes must be pretty weak to be captured by unhappy protesters. I've never heard of police here in Australia ever been taken prisoner by protesters. One baton to the head and boof the protester goes down. What a cock up on the part of those commandoes.



I wouldn't really call reporting further details "changing" the story.

Do you have links showing where this report contradicts previous ones?



you said what I was about to say!
All the efforts of the haters are pretty much pathetic!
The title is lame.


So everyone that thinks the Israeli commandoes screwed the pooch is a hater, whatever that means.
 Quoting: Irdoooomed


Yeah well. When you got nuthin left in your bag of tricks, what are you gonna do.

Like bureaucracies everywhere, Crapaganda Central can't always keep up with quickly changing situations, leaving the mindless minions pretty much floundering around on their own.

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Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 07:28 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
'9mm bullet casings were found - a kind not used by the naval commandos.' -OPs confusion


Where is the conflict? The bullets used by two different guns, both 9mm, where from different manufacturers one used by Israeli commandos the other used by terrorist -damn you are dumb, but if you look hard enough you might find something else.
TruthHurts  (OP)

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06/04/2010 07:40 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
'9mm bullet casings were found - a kind not used by the naval commandos.' -OPs confusion


Where is the conflict? The bullets used by two different guns, both 9mm, where from different manufacturers one used by Israeli commandos the other used by terrorist -damn you are dumb, but if you look hard enough you might find something else.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 946079


And they have this supposed evidence now? After 4 days have passed? Bullshit! Where were the reports of commandos receiving gun shot wounds the day after this happened. If one of the IDF guys had been shot, that would be THE story. The IDF would have released the footage of a terrorist with a gun.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
'9mm bullet casings were found - a kind not used by the naval commandos.' -OPs confusion


Where is the conflict? The bullets used by two different guns, both 9mm, where from different manufacturers one used by Israeli commandos the other used by terrorist -damn you are dumb, but if you look hard enough you might find something else.


And they have this supposed evidence now? After 4 days have passed? Bullshit! Where were the reports of commandos receiving gun shot wounds the day after this happened. If one of the IDF guys had been shot, that would be THE story. The IDF would have released the footage of a terrorist with a gun.
 Quoting: TruthHurts

Yep shifting through the gun casings found on the ship is low on the list of items reviewed after seizure of the ship, fact that it came only four days is either, A) a lot of them where found or B) The need of tangible proof that guns/bullets not of the type used by the Israelis where used by the terrorist.
This is not as fishy as the story four days later of wounded people where tossed from the ship.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 07:52 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
Why don't you zionists pigs just STFU. The more you talk the worst you look.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 07:57 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
Why don't you zionists pigs just STFU. The more you talk the worst you look.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 925129

Yeah, shoot down the spin with reality, and are met with this vitriolic reply. Do you think a proxy in Australia will protect you.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 08:06 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
bodycount..thats all that matters for me.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 08:11 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
bodycount..thats all that matters for me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 973072

Ah, the peaceful Vikings.... he he good play.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2010 08:15 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Israel Navy story changes again: 3 soldiers taken hostage during flotilla raid
'9mm bullet casings were found - a kind not used by the naval commandos.' -OPs confusion


Where is the conflict? The bullets used by two different guns, both 9mm, where from different manufacturers one used by Israeli commandos the other used by terrorist -damn you are dumb, but if you look hard enough you might find something else.


And they have this supposed evidence now? After 4 days have passed? Bullshit! Where were the reports of commandos receiving gun shot wounds the day after this happened. If one of the IDF guys had been shot, that would be THE story. The IDF would have released the footage of a terrorist with a gun.
 Quoting: TruthHurts


They will.

Just as soon as the studio finishes up the editing.





GLP