Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten (or conveniently ignored) facts you need to know

Good post.

Prepare for incoming Jihadist propaganda from Canada and the Netherlands, or Holland, or wherever Dutch people come from......

Author is this Nadav Tamir Nadav Tamir ?

[link to boston.mfa.gov.il]

Author is this Nadav Tamir Nadav Tamir ?

[link to boston.mfa.gov.il]


So?

Does that change the easy-to-understand facts?

Author is this Nadav Tamir Nadav Tamir ?

[link to boston.mfa.gov.il]


So?

Does that change the easy-to-understand facts?



Fair-minded people examine ALL available evidence before forming conclusions, especially when emotions run high.

Ignored by the flotillatards - what a surprise!

All evidence points to the fact that this flotilla was a carefully staged PR stunt, and that conflict and casualties were expected..

Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten or ignored facts

By Nadav Tamir Nadav Tamir – Thu Jun 3, 4:55 pm ET
[link to news.yahoo.com]


Boston – In the torrent of rage and confusion generated by the loss of life when the Israeli Navy enforced the embargo on the Gaza Strip this week, there has been a regrettable overlooking of certain fundamental facts. As is so frequently the case, these facts have gotten buried in the rubble of political rhetoric. In order to prevent this incident from having a deleterious effect on the peace process going forward, the following must be understood:

Fact 1: The Gaza Strip is an armed camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Hamas regime that has not only repeatedly pledged itself to the annihilation of Israel and the torpedoing of any prospects for Middle East peace, but has made good on its pledges by firing approximately 10,000 missiles, rockets, and mortar bombs at Israeli civilians over the past several years for the express purpose of killing or wounding those civilians or, at a minimum, terrifying them.

Fact 2: The United States, the European Union, and the international community have recognized that Hamas is a terrorist enterprise, which surely is beyond dispute.

Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.

Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.

Fact 5: Israel repeatedly, and expressly, made clear to those who organized the effort to break the embargo that it would willingly take all of the humanitarian aid that was on their boats and transfer it to Gaza, without delay. All that Israel wanted was to be able to ensure that materials were, in fact, humanitarian aid, rather than the sorts of materials used for launching attacks that are supplied to Hamas by the Iranians and others. The organizers of the flotilla refused because, of course, getting humanitarian aid to Gaza was not what their gambit was really about.

Fact 6: Israel regularly provides humanitarian aid to Gaza, and volunteering to get the humanitarian aid from the ships to Gaza was consistent with Israeli policy all along.

And Fact 7, which is now coming to light several days after the initial and predictable barrage of criticism of Israel: Those on at least one of the ships planned all along to attack Israelis when they sought to enforce the embargo, and indeed, their attack on the Israelis was brutal.

This fact has been starkly captured in video widely circulating around the Internet, showing the vicious beatings initiated by those on board one of the ships against Israelis, who for their part had been instructed to refrain from using any force if at all possible. Indeed, in Israel the military is being criticized for failing to adequately prepare its naval personnel to anticipate the attacks on them from the boats, and for being too passive, and too trusting, in its approach to the flotilla.

As for the evidence that certain individuals of those responsible for orchestrating this tragedy are linked to Al Qaeda and other representatives of the worst forces on the planet, the next days will likely yield more information.

But the larger issue is this: Has the desire to blame Israel in certain quarters reached such an irrational frenzy that the fundamental facts of any issue relating to the Middle East conflict will reliably be overlooked? Are those who are committed to a fair-minded and reasonable analysis of that conflict prepared to insist that others who like nothing more than jumping to conclusions stop, pause, think, and consider the actual evidence?

There will always be those who don’t let facts to get in the way of their biases. But fair-minded people examine the evidence before forming conclusions, especially when emotions run high. Israel – and the cause of peace in the Middle East – is counting on them to do just that.

All evidence points to the fact that this flotilla was a carefully staged PR stunt, and that conflict and casualties were expected..

Yep

Like I said the minute it happened, be happy for them, for they got exactly what they wanted.

Let me react on the facts here.

Fact 1. Hamas was democratically chosen, u know, by election.

Fact 1: For all their faults, Hamas were democratically elected in the Gaza strip. Democracy obviously only extends to Palestinians on the understanding that they elect leaders approved by Israel. The resultant collective punishment of the Palestinian people in Gaza by Israel constitutes a war crime in International Law.
Fact 2: The Gaza Strip is a prison camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Israeli regime.
Fact 3: Israel has a third choice. It can abide by the conditions of a ceasefire agreed in 2008 with Hamas, which Hamas respected but Israel unilaterally broke.
Fact 4: Israel has not allowed the delivery of concrete into the Gaza Strip to allow the Palestinians to rebuild homes devastated by the murderous Israeli attacks in 2008-2009, a flagrant breach of human rights.
Fact 5: Israel has no more right than any other entity to commit acts of piracy in international waters.
Fact 6: The United Nations has called the blockade of Gaza a medieval siege and has confirmed that only a fraction of the aid required is getting in, despite claims to the contrary in propaganda such as this article.
Fact 7: the Israelis attacked the flotilla, not the other way around. Some members of the flotilla may have wielded sticks to defend themselves, although this has not been confirmed. The Israelis used guns and carried out a massacre. It is clear at the very least that they used unreasonable force, again a breach of International Law.
Fact 8: The author of this piece doesn’t know the difference between fact and opinion, nor the difference between truth and propaganda.

Hamas, Israel, and the Gaza flotilla: seven forgotten or ignored facts

By Nadav Tamir Nadav Tamir – Thu Jun 3, 4:55 pm ET
[link to news.yahoo.com]


Boston – In the torrent of rage and confusion generated by the loss of life when the Israeli Navy enforced the embargo on the Gaza Strip this week, there has been a regrettable overlooking of certain fundamental facts. As is so frequently the case, these facts have gotten buried in the rubble of political rhetoric. In order to prevent this incident from having a deleterious effect on the peace process going forward, the following must be understood:

Fact 1: The Gaza Strip is an armed camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Hamas regime that has not only repeatedly pledged itself to the annihilation of Israel and the torpedoing of any prospects for Middle East peace, but has made good on its pledges by firing approximately 10,000 missiles, rockets, and mortar bombs at Israeli civilians over the past several years for the express purpose of killing or wounding those civilians or, at a minimum, terrifying them.

Fact 2: The United States, the European Union, and the international community have recognized that Hamas is a terrorist enterprise, which surely is beyond dispute.

Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.

Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.

Fact 5: Israel repeatedly, and expressly, made clear to those who organized the effort to break the embargo that it would willingly take all of the humanitarian aid that was on their boats and transfer it to Gaza, without delay. All that Israel wanted was to be able to ensure that materials were, in fact, humanitarian aid, rather than the sorts of materials used for launching attacks that are supplied to Hamas by the Iranians and others. The organizers of the flotilla refused because, of course, getting humanitarian aid to Gaza was not what their gambit was really about.

Fact 6: Israel regularly provides humanitarian aid to Gaza, and volunteering to get the humanitarian aid from the ships to Gaza was consistent with Israeli policy all along.

And Fact 7, which is now coming to light several days after the initial and predictable barrage of criticism of Israel: Those on at least one of the ships planned all along to attack Israelis when they sought to enforce the embargo, and indeed, their attack on the Israelis was brutal.

This fact has been starkly captured in video widely circulating around the Internet, showing the vicious beatings initiated by those on board one of the ships against Israelis, who for their part had been instructed to refrain from using any force if at all possible. Indeed, in Israel the military is being criticized for failing to adequately prepare its naval personnel to anticipate the attacks on them from the boats, and for being too passive, and too trusting, in its approach to the flotilla.

As for the evidence that certain individuals of those responsible for orchestrating this tragedy are linked to Al Qaeda and other representatives of the worst forces on the planet, the next days will likely yield more information.

But the larger issue is this: Has the desire to blame Israel in certain quarters reached such an irrational frenzy that the fundamental facts of any issue relating to the Middle East conflict will reliably be overlooked? Are those who are committed to a fair-minded and reasonable analysis of that conflict prepared to insist that others who like nothing more than jumping to conclusions stop, pause, think, and consider the actual evidence?

There will always be those who don’t let facts to get in the way of their biases. But fair-minded people examine the evidence before forming conclusions, especially when emotions run high. Israel – and the cause of peace in the Middle East – is counting on them to do just that.


Let me react on the facts here.

Fact 1. Hamas was democratically chosen, u know, by election. And yes is totally opposed to Israel occupation. Throwing bombs is going on from both sides. Israel has better weapons, tanks, helicopters, phosphor, laser guided missiles, etc. And uses them on a daily basis inside Palestine.

Fact 2. Yes, without dispute.

Fact 3. We clearly see the destruction of Palestine, not Israel. Israel uses pre-emptive tactics like you point out. So by that fact alone, it is safer to say that Palestine people are defending themselves against Israel preemptive attacks.

fact 4. I didn't know cement, plastic toys and medical care are used to make bombs. So the reason you stated is clearly not the only reason.

Fact 5. According to the UN, Israel only provides around 25% of humanitarian help needed in Gaza. It is time we took control of the help needed over there. Israel won't let us, the NATO countries, committed to peace around the world, in for help. Instead it accuses us, that is including the United States, of providing Hamas with weapons.

fact 6. See fact 5, you are partially right but leave out an important issue.

fact 7. The Israelis started shooting from the air. Whether or not that was warning shots or aimed live fire. That the Israelis fired weapons is why the people on board acted crazy like they did.
No weapons where found on board, at least, no weapons specifically for the purpose to attack. Otherwise i would have expected more then pipes found aboard all ships for all kinds of purposes. I would have expected guns, knifes and baseball bats. To few where found to make a case for your claims.



Overall, you sound like you only want facts that makes the attack on this flotilla acceptable and ethical. Or even all policies of Israel acceptable and ethical. I can't really grasp the idea of an acceptable and ethical war. I condemn all violence on all sides. This flotilla however was just more proof that Israel has gone completely mad. This was a decision made in Israeli government, they sat together, spoke and agreed on this approach. As if it was the only right option, as if it was the only thing left to do...
It is complete and utter madness, they are insane.

They should absolutely not be left dealing with Palestine on their own. Israel simply does not have the sanity of mind left to do so. The protection of Israel has nothing to do with protection anymore, it is pure preemptive warfare. It has reached levels that border against schizophrenia. Every form of criticism is getting the antisemitism stamp of disapproval. There is just no reasonable communication possible any more.

I used to see Israel as a mean dog that bites. I never liked them, but shit happens. Right now i see Israel as a dog with rabies, completely out of control and foam coming out of his mouth. We need to do something about this. And we need to stop pretending that Israel is doing fine, it is not, it is a mentally ill country; destroying it's neighbors and hugely disrupting efforts for world peace.

Go ahead, call me a jew hating nazi if you can't handle a thoughtful reasonably unbiased opinion. See if i care.

Fact 1: For all their faults, Hamas were democratically elected in the Gaza strip. Democracy obviously only extends to Palestinians on the understanding that they elect leaders approved by Israel. The resultant collective punishment of the Palestinian people in Gaza by Israel constitutes a war crime in International Law.
Fact 2: The Gaza Strip is a prison camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Israeli regime.
Fact 3: Israel has a third choice. It can abide by the conditions of a ceasefire agreed in 2008 with Hamas, which Hamas respected but Israel unilaterally broke.
Fact 4: Israel has not allowed the delivery of concrete into the Gaza Strip to allow the Palestinians to rebuild homes devastated by the murderous Israeli attacks in 2008-2009, a flagrant breach of human rights.
Fact 5: Israel has no more right than any other entity to commit acts of piracy in international waters.
Fact 6: The United Nations has called the blockade of Gaza a medieval siege and has confirmed that only a fraction of the aid required is getting in, despite claims to the contrary in propaganda such as this article.
Fact 7: the Israelis attacked the flotilla, not the other way around. Some members of the flotilla may have wielded sticks to defend themselves, although this has not been confirmed. The Israelis used guns and carried out a massacre. It is clear at the very least that they used unreasonable force, again a breach of International Law.
Fact 8: The author of this piece doesn’t know the difference between fact and opinion, nor the difference between truth and propaganda.

fact 4. I didn't know cement, plastic toys and medical care are used to make bombs. So the reason you stated is clearly not the only reason.