A Big "Thank You" to mockers from a Christian

Your statement kinda really doesn't square with the celebrated belief that billions of human beings will be discarded to an eternal incinerator. . .

It may be common, however, I'd like to share the concept of Sheol with you. This is what Judaism believes ... considering that the Hebrews are the foundation upon which Christianity is built, it might be due consideration.

Sheol is the "grave" or the "underworld". Everyone goes there, the faithful, the unbelievers, everyone. This is where we receive purification. Since no one is free of sin, everyone will require purification. During the Shabbat (Sabbath) no punishment or purification takes place. Once the Judgment comes (12 months later), all will ascend to Olam Ha-Ba unless they are completely wicked. Those that are completely wicked will be cast into the fire that can not be quenched to be destroyed. Not tormented for all eternity.

Just saying.

I completely agree that the traditional Hell is never defined or even warned of in the old testament.
I also completely agree with OPs statement that God creates nothing in vain, although I'm at a loss as to how such an assertion allows for anyone - even blinded sinners - to be referred to as "wormspit" who will ultimately be disposed of.

/me shrugs

You can never seem to ever get a good answer from MOST believers concerning their beliefs. I most cases, I only get regurgitated answers as to what they've been told to believe and out of context scriptures.

It's rare that I find someone who has actually researched their scriptures that adheres to the common myth of Christianity. However, I have occasionally seen evidence that they actually did, and somehow still adhere to that construct (that I personally believe to be a false belief following ancient sun gods and pagan religions, but that's MY opinions.)

No accounting for taste, I guess.

They have a purpose, like the rest of us. How are they created in vain?

I hear ya, man.

I mean, holy crap - according to the chapter cited in the original post, were not even allowed to call the devil "wormspit".

They aren't empty of substance. They are empty of faith. That is not God's doing in free will beings.

People take things too personally.

wormspit = dirt

And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground...

There again, flesh man serves a purpose.

We will not live eternity in the flesh.

How so?

God has called him much worse than that.

LOL

Human beings have limited will. Ultimate Human Freewill is an idol that supports our bigger idol, called Endless Punishment. It allows us to destine people to hellfire without blaming God for it. It undercuts His sovereignty and allows us to say "It's not God's fault - they *chose* that!"

We are hedged in by circumstances, boundaries and limitations. We are not "free" to override gravity, at least without adequate propulsion, and we cannot walk through brick walls, we cannot snap our fingers and make our bills go away and we cannot force someone to understand our viewpoint. Like Jonah, we're not so "free" that we can avoid being chased inside a fish and facing a crisis big enough to undo us. Pharoah was apparently not so "free" that he could withstand God hardening his heart against Moses and company.

God is sovereign and does know what He's doing. The problem is that we christers just don't trust Him, so we've thrown together a makeshift framework to keep our crooked, unstable idol from toppling over.

Let me guess...calvinists? oh lawd.

Never studied Calvin much, but you if gotta put a label on me, knock yourself out.

Do you seriously believe human beings run the universe?

I can interpret that as being about modern day Christians. You guys got it ALL wrong.

Where did I say that?

You didn't, but I'm apparently asking it anyway

Oh ok then no.

And, hey, not all homosexuals and atheists are void of faith in their hearts. They are confused in their minds.

Only God can judge the heart, and He will have 1000 years of teaching before that Judgment. Many people don't have half a chance with all of the BS flowing through this world today.

I do not judge souls. As a counselor/teacher, I discern through His word, the best way to help people understand what His Word states.

And, I interpreted Bram Stoker's Dracula as one of the best love story movies I have ever seen. We all have our own perception.

There are many Christians falling into this category. I do agree. Hence, the nearing of the great apostasy and the reason for so few chosen.

Here is what our worst vengeful monster wants to tell you.... and you are buying it hook, line and sinker....

Listen up all you Christian bashers.... you need to hear this!




Last Edited by Spawn on 06/21/2010 04:02 AM

What's to answer? I agree with that. If you compare the sequence of Hebrew letters to other names that are known ... you come up with "Yahuwah".

What's your point? You still choose to call Him, "God"?

So, why do you care for any other reason than to win an internet argument?

The reason I dismissed and answered as shortly as I did, however, you do deserve an explanation and an apology.

About that same time, if you look at the thread. I had someone that has followed me around on thread after thread where I tried to discuss this dropping lies, insults and taunts for the sole purpose of distracting me and causing arguments. He had followed me around for 3 full days at that point and I was becoming angry and violent about it.

However, shortly after I just caved in and resorted to begging for him to stop harassing me, calling me everything from a demon possessed muslim to a satanist because I refused to quote word for word "I accept Jesus Christ as the messiyah" just because he demanded it (despite my constant explanations that I will not call Him by what I believe to be a false name) he finally decided to stop.

My apologies for making you feel dismissed. Please don't be so defensive with me. I was in an incredibly stressed state of mind dude to constant harassment for three solid days on several threads where I was unable to be allowed to discuss this. However, almost every time you've spoken to me, I've detected a distinct vibe of defensiveness.

I apologize if I seem equally defensive ... but ever since I stopped being an atheist, I've been accosted at every turn by "Christians" because I don't agree 100% with every single thing they say.

I've been there. Since I became a Christian my beliefs have changed. I see that what the "Church" in America teaches is not even close to what is really in the bible. I was overseas and was taught in foreign churches and understand it's about love and forgiveness, not just from God to us, but for all of us to each other. So I wouldn't worry about those Christians so much, actually use it as a barometer to make sure you are not "drinking their kool-aid".

While, internally, I totally agree and it causes me much anger ... that's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that I'm being called names and attacked any time I so much as speak of my own beliefs ... typically by those that complain that they're being attacked.

You'd really think they'd say, "Wow, an atheist had a truly biblical moment where the Elohim touched him, bravo!"

Instead, with rare exception, I get "What?!?! You refuse to call him Jesus?!?! YOU BLASPHEMER!!!!" or whatever.

I got FAR less shit for having no belief at all.

It's bullshit, really.

I do understand. Believe me. That is why I started this thread. There is so much anger and confusion that everyone is insulting everyone else here. People are accusing me of things I never posted, and they are doing it with the assumption that I am like so many false Christians. I get stereotyped everywhere I discuss religion and politics...

...unless they can see my pretty face.

Then again, look how some of them treat the pretty Christian ladies on this site.

Nothing new. They will toughen you up, man. Years of people slamming me has built a confidence I could not have otherwise. That's Body building; no pain, no gain.

Sorry to hear that you've perceived defensive mode from me. I have been enjoying this discussion, as a very forward person. That's all.

I call our Father God at times, especially on discussion forums, because I am a teacher. I teach on 3 levels. "God" is a universal reference and prevents a lot of overwhelmed hesitation and misunderstanding in young Christians and the transition of converts.

However, my prayers and teachings with 3rd level students, are for Yeshua Messiah, Jesus The Christ.

Our Father's Sacred Name is not like other words, to be transliterated, IMEO.

Thank you for such a kind post. I will chalk up my own observations and assumptions to "hypersensitivity".

This combined with "cramming" WAY too much information in a little over a week, combined with sleep deprivation is causing me to get "tweaky" (Even my written delivery is starting to show effects).

I have ADHD and OCD (not complaining, I view them as gifts/curses). I currently feel similar to how I did when I obtained a 2 year Associates degree in Electronics in about 3 months. When I am grabbed by a subject, I tend to obsessively consume all the information I can in very short order. I've been doing that with this. Granted, I learned alot 20 years ago, but I've forgotten as much as I learned (which is good, my cup is empty and being refilled) and I'm, admittedly, taking on too much in too short a period of time.

I decided to take a break from it a few days ago ... and GLP, the place I've spent two years peacefully debating, discussing and debunking has suddenly turned into a foreign place for me. On one hand, I've now got some of the best fellowship I've ever had here on one thread ... on the other hand, I'm now dealing with so much anger, indoctrination and negativity that I've only witnessed, never had directed at me. Wow, everything has turned into extremes for me.

I'm certainly being tested, battle hardened and deeply loved in one fell swipe.

Considering I'm working towards a path to get back into ministry/evangelizing/teaching ... this is ultimately a good thing. This will be the place where I refine my approaches and assertions ... while also being the place I will learn what counter-retorts and reactions to delivery I will expect in the coming years.

Ugh, I accept this yoke that I've agreed to take on, but my goodness, I truly wasn't expecting everything to be turned upside down.

Edit to add: I sincerely apologize for my own knee-jerk assumptions directed at you initially. I know better.

HalleluYah!

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 06/21/2010 05:45 AM

Welcome to the world of scholarly studies! LOL!

I am a cancer survivor. When I began studying intensely, I was bed ridden and on massive pain meds for years because of chronic pain. I had nothing to do but study.

I would get so frustrated because those pain meds work by interrupting impulses in the brain. As a professional student, I became very frustrated that I couldn't make the connections.

Man, when those pain meds were out of my body, it was like bright lights going off in my brain, literally. I had revelation upon revelation. All of the information I had stored in my brain finally wove together.

That is how it will be with you. Our spirit has a way of overcoming physical limitations that I still haven't been able to explain, even to myself. Only by His Grace are we able to see the big picture.

His yoke is is easy, but we are so hard on ourselves. I believe the antagonistic interferences of this world today have a lot to do with hypertension, like in your case. Many of my clients/students are timid. Strength through faith is a necessary foundation, and one on which I focus from the beginning.

When I was younger, some guys were snooping around my property. I went into the house and walked out with my gun. They became intimidated and walked away, calling me a fuckin' bitch. My response to that was, "If you never see me again, remember that I am a fuckin' bitch." And, I meant that. I am still like that. In that, I mean that I will defend what is mine, at all costs.

My personal relationship with Him is MINE, and my most prized possession!

Thank you. I have been coming here for a while for my balanced news, and have recently decided to try it out for discussion. You are the first person with whom I have established ongoing discussion.

Enough already.

I didn't take offense, really.

Anyway, I like your face.

Another post, because I somehow flew right past replying to this part.

If you look at my signature, you'll see the very first quote. This is how I operate. In order to live up to that tenant I hold so dear as well as honestly I want to reply ... no ... I did not.

Rabbis and Israelis have not shared this with me. In fact, quite the reverse. Granted (no offense) I must now research this on my own and validate the veracity of this (I'm sure you understand and no further explanation is needed). I have come to my conclusions by comparing (with the assistance of others) previously known names that use the same sequence of Hebraic letters and combining them. With the sheer volume of educated people in the ancient language, I seriously want to have a knee-jerk disagreement with your claim. However, I do not abide by personal bias.

Heh, you've created a moment of shaking foundation that has taken a priority for me. The name thing, I personally feel, is possibly the most important of any other study I will ever take. I have repented from calling my Elohim or my Messiyah by anything but their names.

I'm starting to think that maybe, when in discussions, I might have to include "God" or "Jesus" in parenthesis beside their names to prevent confusion. That alone might prevent the vast majority of "attacks" I'm currently subjected to from Christians.

Thank you for possibly correcting an error in my own studies and accepted facts. I can only hope you realize how much being "saved" from error means to me.

*big warm hug*

Doesn't happen like this with Electronics or sciences. Seems only politics or religion. Ha! :)



Yasher Koach! And I'm sorry to hear that (yada yada, I detect you're WAY past that).




Ugh, I feel like I'm in the matrix and one of those learning programs has just been jacked into my skull.

"I know Kung Fu."



I'm actually on the opposite end of that one. I'm an ex-convict (22 years ago, totally different person). I had to learn to stop being violent and using my 6'1" frame and intimidation to overcome adversity. Granted, I was actually VERY skinny growing up, so, I already learned to use my words ... but habit teaches us to take the path of least resistance. So, yeah, when things get tough, I have to fight the urge to fall into, "Yeah, but can you kick my ass, that's the real question." angle of attack. (The internet has been the single most useful tool I've ever had to overcome this.)



Oh, stop! You're making me really start to like you and that's simply unacceptable. :P



I never would have understood that statement beyond, "Indoctrination!" 2 weeks ago. My goodness, how things can change.



You're welcome. These discussions only take place between the hours of 3am and 5am CST. When all the distractions finally go to sleep. It's worse right now because all the kiddies are out of school. It'll lighten up a bit once school starts back up.

Hey, I'd like to invite you to a thread I've started. I think you'll find it very interesting. Granted, it's pretty much distilled down to a handful of us that are almost all Messianic. (Still not sure that's the place for me, but it's the closest fit) However, I think you'd like it there. It's almost totally "sans trolls".

Thread: Messianics, Judaism, Christianity, Atheism and general open mindedness ...

I started it right after I got the answer to "I'm still looking, are you there?" in my nightly meditation during the 3 days I received my signs that I wasn't going bat-shit crazy. So, don't be confused by my posts on the first half of the thread. (assuming you choose to read the whole thing).

In closing, I'm thankful I met you. :)

Last Edited by Sir Phydeau on 06/21/2010 06:23 AM

No really. I meant all Christians. Especially the Catholics.