LOST CIVILIZATION FOUND UNDER ARCTIC ICE CAP 3400 YEAR OLD SHOE

Of course a shoe doesn't prove the existence of an ancient civilization, I'm not sure why so many people keep repeating that. According to the article they found "a wealth of items that include weapons and shoes among other everyday items."

there are in fact several different Pole Shift Theories, it is a branch of theory that has many twigs and many leaves, there isn't just one Pole Shift Theory... Charles Hapsgood's theory is A Polar Shift Theory, one of the 'twigs or leaves'.

Science in its theories used to be and still mostly is seen to have an organizational structure seen as a Tree Struction, Roots, Trunks, Limbs, Branches, Twigs, and Leaves.

More and more its theoretical structure is being seen as a sort of chromosome DNA structure, with one theory having a particular gene or set of genes and another theory having a different set of genes, yet sharing some in common with the first theory. Yet, this sort of chromosome breeding structuring of the theories of science would seldom come up with any thing really revolutionary or 'creative' solutions. Yet we could in a sense 'breed theories' and then with the appropriate experiment testing as a 'fitness function' more rapidly come to see which of all the theories or combinations of theories then best fits the Data at hand, and re-bred and evaluated upon the discovery of new data.

Modern Science and its advocates cannot afford yet to become totally closed minded and dogmatic. Standard Plate Tectonic Theory and Standared Ice Age Theory are in now way to be taken as fully settled 'truths'. They could yet be discovered to be not only bass-akwards but totally in error, like the Flat Earth Theories.

Water is the most prevelant compound in the universe, and that includes inside the Earth. Hydrogen in bond with Oxygen.. very prevelant.

Search up the geo-physical sciences and its discoveris starting from around 1994 and you will find the recent discoveris of the 21st Century that has stood much of 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, and evne 20th Century Sciences on their heads.

Would you like to step down from you high horse just for a second and consider how or why someone would walk that far out? How about the villages in Greenland? For someone so smug, you would think something of benefit would be added to your post.

Yea, but what I want to know is where the heck are all the missing Socks?

Dropping the Global Ocean water levels even 400 feet would uncover so much of our ancient past as humans that it would be totally mind numbing.. we would have the shock of coming to understand that 'we've been here before' and that 'no ET/Aliens' need apply for assisting mankind, we are fully capable of doing it ourselves.

them shoes turning up everywhere!

and why's it only ever one shoe not
a pair of shoes

One day I did a little ole thought experiment, in which I assumed that a traveler could just pull food out of then air. I then decided to let my little Sim walk one 1 mile every day but in a random direction every day. In just a year my Sim will have walked (both shoes, one shoe, no shoes) 365 miles, in 10 years, 3,650 miles in 40 years 14,600 miles. Do the same with his children, by the end of the Sim Children's generation, ie. 80 years, that's 29,200 miles.

This is at one mile a day, or for a normal healthy adult human about a 10-15 minute walk, every day.

Using the 'wondering ant' algorithims it is interesting to see just how few years would be needed by a population of 100 such Sims to pretty much cover the land surface of any of the continents.

And to think the Anthropologiest and Evolutionists would have it take human's 1,000 years to travel even 1,000 miles, or 10,000 years or more to move from the Rift Valley of Africa to the Black Sea, for instance. I see a grave problem with such theories. Don't you?

They will never find the other missing Sock.

The return of the Planet Niburu every 3600 years as mentioned in Sumerian records could act as a trigger for many cataclysms however, the disappearance of 10,000+ feet of water about 200 days (Gen 8) when the water had no place to go, does not make sense. Even local floods sometimes take weeks to drain off when they have a whole ocean basin to flow into. NO, I cannot agree with the metallic ice theory if only because if it were to have happened as you state, then why would it return to the same state back in the ground in only half a year leaving growing things on the earth such as the olive leaf which the dove picked off a still growing tree.

duh. its a cycle. ever heard about the Mamoth found frozen with food still its in mouth being chewed? fresh plants. instant freeze. itll happen again- a big shift- and the cold will be warm the warm will be cold- the bad will be gone and everything will be good- the top will be on the bottom the bottom on the top.

OMG, the flash freeze dried four limbed double backed creature. Maaaaaaaaaa Maaaaaaaaa......

If your erection lasts more than four hours consult your shaman.

Ballard exploring below the Dead Zone top of the Black Sea suggests that we may well find prefectly preserved human bodies, not mummified, nor freeze dried, but as if they had been perserved in Argon or Neon... on the bottom surfaces of the Black Sea.. such discoveries would go way beyond even that found of the Ice Man of the Alps.

What this thread is about?

You guys are lost...

We do not now travel around the Sun in a perfectly circle orbit it is a well proven fact. The orbit of Venus is closer to be a perfect circle than the Earths' orbit.

Sometimes it a real discovery to just read up on Solar System Astronomy and Celestial Mechanics. It is a shame they so seldom teach much of it in High School in the USA any more, or that perhaps, the students are basically just not paying much attention to it.

Yea, 3,400 years ago was like 1,400 B.C.E. in terms of ancient civilizations not really all that long ago. Its not like they are talking 34,000 years ago in this article.

There were many human villages and walled encampment on Earth in 1,400 B.C. some quite small populations only in the dozens of people or couples of hundreds. Jericho as of 1,400 B.C.E. had a farily large population by comparison... and it has been alleged its cemetaries hold a couple million graves.

And finding old shoes does not necessary imply a 'civilization' either, at least not in the sense that so many people like to think of civilization today.

Its more like starting at the very beginning of "Age of Empires" when you ony have two people to start with and growing it from that.

Hmmm, just like in the movie Aliens v Predator...

Oh, well, guess it pays to read in full tha actual linked articles, eh? Yikes.

of course, 12,500 years ago would put it at 10,490 B.C.E., this being 2,010 C.E.

One should also realize that these modern datings are based on Atomic Clock Seconds Years, as the dating are down radiometrically. How these Atomic Clock Years relate to actual Orbital Years as historically happens is in fact a realtive unknown. One needs to study the difference between Atomic Clock Time measurenments and Dynamic Clock Time measurements to see the difference. 12,500 Atomic Clock years could in all fact be only 8,000 Dynamic Clock Years, more or less, depending on what the actual Orbital dimensions over time of the Earth's orbit has been, and what the actual speed of the Earth's rotation around its poles actually has been. Both the Orbit and Rotation around the Poles speeds are dynamic quantities and not fixed at all, difinitely not to be taken as universal constants. Thsi is something that is so seldom understood by the pop-science authors and their readers.

This 'site' being:

Monte Verde Excavation: or Clovis Police Beat a Retreat

After long, often bitter debate, archeologists have finally come to a consensus that humans reached southern Chile 12,500 years ago. The date is more than 1,000 years before the previous benchmark for human habitation in the Americas, 11,200-year-old stone spear points first discovered in the 1930s near Clovis, N.M.
The Chilean site, known as Monte Verde, is on the sandy banks of a creek in wooded hills near the Pacific Ocean. Even former skeptics have joined in agreeing that its antiquity is now firmly established and that the bone and stone tools and other materials found there definitely mark the presence of a hunting-and-gathering people.

Wait till you see what they've found in Antarctica...

Taking the methods of the now standarized "Chaos Mathematics", we can also reason that a cat's sneeze has an effect on the global climate, or a dog's fart, or the flap of a butterfly's wings at the middle height of Mt. Everest has an effect on how much rain I get here in Mid Nebraska.

Man has an effect no doubt, but the question always remains just how much of an effect. 40 zillion bacteria pumping out one billion cubic feet of methane a week would seem to have much the same impact on climate as 7 Billion humans pumping out one billion cubic feet of methane a week. End result in either case is one billion cubic feet of methane getting pumped out into the climate a week -- regardless of what produced it.

There is no reason to freeze frame the global climate to one 'ideal state'. If you want such, highly insulate your house, and run your heating/cooling all the time and your humidifiers and dehumidifiers, to have a 'perfectly controled climate' inside you house. Nature does its own thing, and as much as the Environmentalists and Naturalists seem to dislike the fact, MAN is a part of Nature... and has just as much right and power to affect the climate as all other lifeforms and abiotic processes of nature on this planet.

And yes, fouling our own nest with pollution is one thing, its another to be a small part of Nature's overall climate dynamics mechanism.

As far as Climate Progress Predictions are concerned we can only develop models with a certain number of extremely large inputs of extremely fine precision (which we have not even really begun to do, as it all has to be modeled right down to the stomic level, atom by atom to do so). ANd then what about the mathematical functions and assumptions made in such models? At the current state of affairs in climate predictive modeling that is very much still a art rather than a science.

So far, from the found data, evidence, I really see no room to jump to Civilization here in this case... at the least it is evidence perhaps of the skills of just one person, and a single person does not a civilization make.

One person can pick up rocks, gather wood, start a fire. One person can break off tree branches and using stones grind (rasp) that branch itno an arrow shaft or a bow, one person and make an arrow head, one person can take of thorns growing on trees and animal skin ans sinew and make a pair of 'shoes' .. it does not at all take a Civilization do do these things, just a medium intelligent person with nothing better to do and to discover things.

:bushhitler:

Indeed, even without massive polar shifting, the ice caps at the poles are always in a rather dynamic state.

Consider this stuff [link to arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu] now consider what we might be viewing in this if the database for it had been an hour by hour actual on site measurements, day by day, year by year, for the past 60,000 years, database?

The Ice Caps are dynamic places... but what so many Climate Alarmists really want to do is freeze that down as a steady state static thing, as if they were reduced to an Absolute Zero temperate and stay at that temperature forever and ever -- or until the next Big Crunch.

Including a Global Planet Wide Flood over the entire surface ofthe Earth... the one Flood "Myth" that so many many people mock so deeply that they even take issue with evaluating it as if it might really just have happened exactly that way.

Bible deniers all seem to flock in massive herds to the Atlantis/LeMruian Mythos. Evoking ET/Aliens as the creators of the Human Race.

If you are going to study ALL Flood Myths, then really put as much time in the Global Planet-wide Flood of Noah Scenario as you do in other flood myths.

Now there would be some REAL Science, instead of all this goobly de gook popularist Science bs that is being spoon fed the masses by the msm of the popularist science media.

Strangely, (NOT), funding for such studies is nearly non existent, nor are people individually allowed to have such personal capital as required to do such things.. and then the EPA evronmental impact studies and all the other red-tapes that go with it would stifle it to death.

Its time to get back mostly to the USA of 1789.

Ice, Barry Setterfield (a creation scientist) has put the date of the Flood of Noah at approximatley 3,545 B.C., and with a how series of caveats. I am inclined to agree with him to a point. If Barry's dating is within the ball park, then that would be 5,555 years ago, not 3,400 years ago.

Some others bring it forward about 1,000 years, but it sort of depends on ones' approach to Biblical Chronology and Textual Lines decisions. Masoretic vs LXX for instance.

Heres an interesting thing I find. Many modern radiometric dating techniques are being used on of which is Carbon-14 dating.. yet, since 1945 Trinity shot the amount of new Carbon-14 that has been put into the atmosphere to then wind up in charcoals and other organics has not been taken into account in the least in the Carbon-14 dating anaylsis.

There is also the difference between Atomic Time and Celestial Orbital and Rotational Dynamic time that should be taken into account. When we say 3,400 years ago, do we mean 3,400 orbits of the Earth around the Sun, or do we mean 3,000 Atomic Clock Years. See the difference?

Wonderful. I hope it all melts.

Must have been those pre-Industrial Age humans heating up the planet with their campfires.

Where is Al Gore when you need him?

If you fine the corporations for polluting, they merely pass the costs of the fines onto their consumers. And the taxpayers spend more money on those goods - its the same if you force the corportaions to clean up their mess.

If you pay for clean up from public tax money's it raises taxes and the taxpayer spendmore of their money on taxes.

Either way the Taxpayers get screw.. the corporations can then continue on to pollute pollut pollute.

But, if you imprision the Owners of the corporations for 10-40 years for acts of pollution, and then imprison the board of directors for 10 to 40 year is the pollution continues, and the imprision the high share stockholders of that corporation for 10 -40 years, eventually the polluting stops by that group. Sure the Taxpers stil foot the clean up bill.. but like taking the rapist off the streets, and imprisioning the armed robber, that corporation is no longer free to continue polluting..

Thing is, we have forgotten the value of 20-40 year prision sentences in this nation for arresting the behaviors of people to reduce the amount of harm they can contiue to do, instead we have gone to Civil Torts.

I think it'd be awesome to smell 4000 y.o. reindeer poo.