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First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?

 
FreeDoom
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User ID: 1144192
United States
10/29/2010 02:51 AM
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First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
The 10 yr treasury TIPS sold with a negative .55% real yield for the first time ever. Investors believe they have to pay the government now for the safety of inflation adjusted bonds because of the lack of confidence in the future system. Talk about buying safety into a bubble, this has to be the definition. All of the QE is going right into lowering yields and raising the price of stock market which is good for about 10% of the population now and not helping the other 90% who are just trying to get through the next week or month without throwing in the towel. Savers are not receiving any yield and its forcing them to change their life styles or worse. As Sixty Minutes pointed out last night many are getting desperate and the government still seems to not get the message.

Some our saying the riots of Europe may move to the US, but not enough people work for the government here (yet), and it’s football season so we doubt the masses will join the bandwagon. Few point out that you must work 40 years to be able to retire at 60 in France which is different than the many government workers who retire earlier than 60 in the US– but then again we don’t get the long vacations in the South of France either.
FreeDoom  (OP)

User ID: 1144192
United States
10/29/2010 02:58 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
now with worthless debt being called out..whats the real answer? where's the exit sign?
RoadKill

User ID: 1102140
United States
10/29/2010 03:17 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Americans will take it in the ass until big pharma kills them at 65. We won't ever riot and we won't ever see our social security.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1145596
Sweden
10/29/2010 05:20 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Americans will take it in the ass until big pharma kills them at 65. We won't ever riot and we won't ever see our social security.
 Quoting: RoadKill



Yeah, that is what america has become.
Good taking care of buissenes in irak, nam south am and so on...but fight and clear your own govrnment...pussies!
Has this been the case in any other country you would allready be involved in a civil war.
The_Tauremini

User ID: 1145619
Australia
10/29/2010 06:12 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Disband the Federal Reserve, investigate the f**k out of it and then give American money back to Americans.
-Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1145426
United States
10/29/2010 06:42 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Maybe the big 0 needs to readjust his departure time once again. The perfect fall guy.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1011642
United States
10/29/2010 07:54 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Americans will take it in the ass until big pharma kills them at 65. We won't ever riot and we won't ever see our social security.



Yeah, that is what america has become.
Good taking care of buissenes in irak, nam south am and so on...but fight and clear your own govrnment...pussies!
Has this been the case in any other country you would allready be involved in a civil war.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1145596



BS, the war begins when austerity kicks in. Wait till unemployment checks, food stamps, WIC, disability, Social Security, VA benefits expire/run out..

That is when you will see the biggest fucking riot in world history.

Not before then, once people have NO money to buy food and narcotics. Then crime kicks up, and we go FerFAL/Argentina style..

Plus we have a TON of Mexican drug cartels ready to pounce on American society once 911 stops working on the phone.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1145621
United States
10/29/2010 08:10 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Americans will take it in the ass until big pharma kills them at 65. We won't ever riot and we won't ever see our social security.



Yeah, that is what america has become.
Good taking care of buissenes in irak, nam south am and so on...but fight and clear your own govrnment...pussies!
Has this been the case in any other country you would allready be involved in a civil war.



BS, the war begins when austerity kicks in. Wait till unemployment checks, food stamps, WIC, disability, Social Security, VA benefits expire/run out..

That is when you will see the biggest fucking riot in world history.

Not before then, once people have NO money to buy food and narcotics. Then crime kicks up, and we go FerFAL/Argentina style..

Plus we have a TON of Mexican drug cartels ready to pounce on American society once 911 stops working on the phone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1011642


America is STILL fat, dumb and happy.
Most people are still working, going on vacation, eating,
drinking and being merry.

Things are getting tighter, but nowhere near riot level.

If gasoline went to $6 a gallon, or the Social Security
checks started bouncing, or the ATMs quit working,
or the credit cards shut down,
THEN,
you MIGHT see some hell raised.

Don't expect to see a major REACTION until there is
some major ACTION.
Epic Beard Guy

User ID: 911215
United States
10/29/2010 08:40 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
This is obviously a sign that the economy is turning around. We are officially out of the recession and into recovery. Just ask Barry. The big question is why is this getting no coverage from the lame stream media. Could it be because this could change the election results dramatically? If this got out, who would vote for the progressive liberals?
Now is the time to prepare for TSHTF!
militia
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1145721
Germany
10/29/2010 08:41 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
now with worthless debt being called out..whats the real answer? where's the exit sign?
 Quoting: FreeDoom


Amero ^^
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1144116
United States
10/29/2010 08:45 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
and it’s football season so we doubt the masses will join the bandwagon.
 Quoting: FreeDoom


God forbid we have a black out during a major game. You would see some real action then.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1142076
United States
10/29/2010 08:48 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Really I can't understand why this would happen.

[link to www.dailyjobcuts.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 992769
United States
10/29/2010 08:49 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
These guys know something...
The TIPS bonds are inflation adjusted, meaning that they are tied to CPI.
The negative .55% means that they will earn .55% LESS than the current inflation rate. But that rate is adjustable. So if inflation goes up 10% in 5 years, these guys will be seeing a 9.45% return.
Get ready for massive inflation.
At least we will still have our iphones...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1144116
United States
10/29/2010 08:56 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
These guys know something...
The TIPS bonds are inflation adjusted, meaning that they are tied to CPI.
The negative .55% means that they will earn .55% LESS than the current inflation rate. But that rate is adjustable. So if inflation goes up 10% in 5 years, these guys will be seeing a 9.45% return.
Get ready for massive inflation.
At least we will still have our iphones...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 992769

we have had massive inflation for over 20 years. You buy gold today it still overvalued by 70 percent because of it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1145780
United States
10/29/2010 10:03 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
These guys know something...
The TIPS bonds are inflation adjusted, meaning that they are tied to CPI.
The negative .55% means that they will earn .55% LESS than the current inflation rate. But that rate is adjustable. So if inflation goes up 10% in 5 years, these guys will be seeing a 9.45% return.
Get ready for massive inflation.
At least we will still have our iphones...

we have had massive inflation for over 20 years. You buy gold today it still overvalued by 70 percent because of it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1144116

Sorry, beut there was no inflation the past two years. My Social Security monthly benefit proves it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1145790
United States
10/29/2010 10:17 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
I posted this last week no one cares
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1142076
United States
10/29/2010 10:30 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
I posted this last week no one cares
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1145790



Well you are right, no one cares. But it is actually a major deal.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 992769
United States
10/29/2010 10:38 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
I posted this last week no one cares



Well you are right, no one cares. But it is actually a major deal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1142076

+1000
I dont know if no one cares, or if they do not understand the implications.
Plus, TIPS yield is not as flashy as aliens/volcano/eq doom
BRIEF AND TO THE POINT

User ID: 381742
United States
10/29/2010 10:39 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Remember the 80's? Get ready for even worse... I was like 12 years old and got a CD for like 15%...
Poor people do poor people things, and rich people do rich people things.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.

You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

when you rob Paul to give to Peter ... ... ... you will always get Peters support!

:Brieffromnativea:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1144881
United States
10/29/2010 10:43 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Remember the 80's? Get ready for even worse... I was like 12 years old and got a CD for like 15%...
 Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT





bsflag
PSSZZZ

User ID: 1035264
United States
10/29/2010 10:48 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
If we don't get cern/lhc shut down between this week and November 9th, all this won't matter!!!!

[link to www.cerntruth.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1144116
United States
10/29/2010 11:03 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
These guys know something...
The TIPS bonds are inflation adjusted, meaning that they are tied to CPI.
The negative .55% means that they will earn .55% LESS than the current inflation rate. But that rate is adjustable. So if inflation goes up 10% in 5 years, these guys will be seeing a 9.45% return.
Get ready for massive inflation.
At least we will still have our iphones...

we have had massive inflation for over 20 years. You buy gold today it still overvalued by 70 percent because of it.

Sorry, beut there was no inflation the past two years. My Social Security monthly benefit proves it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1145780



So the government is expected to announce that there will be no benefit bump next year. How do you feel about that?
FloridaCaveDiver

User ID: 30966
United States
10/29/2010 11:18 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Remember the 80's? Get ready for even worse... I was like 12 years old and got a CD for like 15%...





bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1144881


No, it is true. I had CDs in the 80s that were in the 12%-19% range... as a matter of fact I had one they ranked "high dollar" which got its own "higher percentage" and that was $100,000 CD @ 22%.

No joke.... 22%

If you had $1M or more they percentage was even HIGHER.

Now what are they... LOL
------
Buying precious metals is an act of REBELLION! Invest in Silver Today!
Emmeric

User ID: 1121862
United States
10/29/2010 11:40 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Even with zero inflation, food and energy both went up over 30%. Food over 40% in the last year.

But fuzzy pink leopard-print washing machines stayed the same, so the government says no inflation!

lol

But we all know that congress will vote themselves yet another fat 20% pay raise after the elections.
When blacks have identity it is called pride.
When indians have identity it is called culture.
When Jewish people have identity it is called history.
When WHITES have identity it is called Racism.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1144116
United States
10/29/2010 11:43 AM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Even with zero inflation, food and energy both went up over 30%. Food over 40% in the last year.

 Quoting: Emmeric


Finally somebody gets it! No inflation? you would have to be a moron to believe that. People have been paying out the ass for years. About 20 to be exact.
Emmeric

User ID: 1121862
United States
10/29/2010 12:00 PM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Saying there is no inflation by ignoring food and energy, the two things Americans must buy...

...is like saying there is no clothing inflation if you ignore the massive price increases in pants, socks, shirts, underwear, t-shirts while only counting green cotton gloves!



yeahsure
When blacks have identity it is called pride.
When indians have identity it is called culture.
When Jewish people have identity it is called history.
When WHITES have identity it is called Racism.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1144116
United States
10/29/2010 12:08 PM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Saying there is no inflation by ignoring food and energy, the two things Americans must buy...

...is like saying there is no clothing inflation if you ignore the massive price increases in pants, socks, shirts, underwear, t-shirts while only counting green cotton gloves!



yeahsure
 Quoting: Emmeric


What kills me are these genious's that say buy gold to head off inflation. They just don't get it. I have to just laugh at the stupidity.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1072042
Canada
10/29/2010 12:11 PM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Remember the 80's? Get ready for even worse... I was like 12 years old and got a CD for like 15%...

bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1144881


He said 'got' not bought - could have been from grandma, and likely a five-year one, I'm guessing (being Canadian I barely know wtf a CD is but guessing it's like a GIC - guaranteed income certificate)

I bought a ONE YEAR $1,000 Canada Savings bond at 18 and the interest on that paid $10.5%. Cashed it a year later to pay for University - a semester's tuition then. If I'd had any idea that interest rates fluctuated widely and that that rate was amazing I'd have saved every penny and bought up the longest dated ones available at the time and kept working until the recession hit and THEN gone to uni.

So don't assume zero will be forever either - it's a good bet interest rates will spike before most people expect them to.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1145598
United States
10/29/2010 12:14 PM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
OK so if I buy a bond it will be give me less than I paid for it, What kind of fool would .....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 992769
United States
10/29/2010 12:22 PM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
OK so if I buy a bond it will be give me less than I paid for it, What kind of fool would .....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1145598

no - this is inflation adjusted
you get less than the rate of inflation
basically, buying a negative yied TIPS is a bet that inflation will skyrocket - that is why you would buy one, expecting a HIGH return as inflation (CPI) rises
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1145898
United States
10/29/2010 12:36 PM
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Re: First Treasury Auction with Negative Yield... oop's?
Obama: "We're out of Money."
[link to www.c-span.org] [Warning: PDF]

In a sobering holiday interview with C-SPAN, President Obama boldly told Americans: "We are out of money."

C-SPAN host Steve Scully broke from a meek Washington press corps with probing questions for the new president.

SCULLY: You know the numbers, $1.7 trillion debt, a national deficit of $11 trillion. At what point do we run out of money?

OBAMA: Well, we are out of money now. We are operating in deep deficits

CNN: "The figure Walker cites includes future payments that government entitlement programs would have to pay, including $32 trillion owed by Medicare."
[link to www.cnn.com]

"Add together the unfunded liabilities from Medicare and Social Security, and it comes to $99.2 trillion over the infinite horizon."
[link to www.dallasfed.org]

U.S. unfunded liabilities: over 110 Trillion dollars
[link to usdebtclock.org]

Bloomberg: U.S. Is Bankrupt and We Don't Even Know
Let’s get real. The U.S. is bankrupt. Neither spending more nor taxing less will help the country pay its bills.
Based on the CBO’s data, I calculate a fiscal gap of $202 trillion, which is more than 15 times the official debt. This gargantuan discrepancy between our “official” debt and our actual net indebtedness isn’t surprising. It reflects what economists call the labeling problem. Congress has been very careful over the years to label most of its liabilities “unofficial” to keep them off the books and far in the future.
[link to www.bloomberg.com]

Washington Post: Obama's debt commission warns of fiscal 'cancer' "that will destroy the country from within"
"We can't grow our way out of this," Bowles said. "We could have decades of double-digit growth and not grow our way out of this enormous debt problem. We can't tax our way out. . . . The reality is we've got to do exactly what you all do every day as governors. We've got to cut spending or increase revenues or do some combination of that."
[link to www.washingtonpost.com]

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