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Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2011 11:54 PM
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Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Wanted to resurrect this thread instead of starting a new one. Some good info here anyway.

UPDATE:No Contango in Silver

The spot price of silver is higher than the futures price. Silver has gone into backwardation. People are paying high premiums to obtain physical silver. Investors are scrambling to get whatever physical silver is available. Silver is also de-coupling from the gold price.
Please follow the link below the quote for more...

"Contango, where the spot price of a commodity is lower than the following futures contracts, is the normal condition in the precious metals futures markets. Contango is a sign that a commodity is in ample or adequate supply.

Backwardation means that the cash or spot price is higher than the futures price for the same commodity. Backwardation occurs when demand for immediate delivery outstrips the market’s ability to deliver the commodity. Backwardation occurs when there are too few sellers of the physical commodity to accommodate all of the actual buyers, so a near-premium develops to compensate the sellers willing to part with metal in return for taking delivery later.

That means that there is heavy demand for immediate delivery silver. It means that silver players are earning a premium to sell physical for delivery now and to wait for the return of their metal until the March contract, the near active contract, which is trading at 1.6-cents lower than spot (blue circle).

Full-blown backwardation has arrived in the COMEX silver futures market. Backwardation suggests that competition for whatever metal is available is heavy and most analysts consider silver backwardation to be a decidedly bullish condition."

[link to harveyorgan.blogspot.com]

-----end update.

From The Market Oracle:

We witnessed a massive withdrawal of silver unprecedented in the history of the comex. First there was a smallish 6507 oz of silver deposited to two customers, one being 497 oz and the other 6010 oz). But just look at the huge withdrawals:

Four customers (not dealers) withdrew a total of 1,019,310 oz from the comex vaults. This is real silver leaving from 4 registered vaults. The individual withdrawals are: 579,081, 30,380, 399,994 and 9855 oz.

...

1,615,000 oz + 340,000 = 1,955,000 oz (Thursday total = 1,625,000). As promised to you, this number is rising and will continue to rise until the end of the month as our banker cartel scrambles to get any morsel of silver to satisfy the massive demand for this metal. Our bankers are stunned to see such a huge amount of silver options in a traditionally slow month.

[link to www.marketoracle.co.uk]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/09/2011 11:56 PM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
A perspective on historical silver can also be found at this site:

[link to www.marketoracle.co.uk]
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2011 11:56 PM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Interesting.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/10/2011 12:11 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Comex manipulation.
The precious metal markets are intentionally manipulated to keep the price low. A series of attacks on the PM's market occured and were reported on by a whistleblower.
Proof of this manipulation was brought before regulators and they have ignored it and not investigated.

Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/10/2011 12:15 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
The withdrawl of physical silver from the comex and bank vaults is a warning of a potential run on the metals.

"The COMEX gold & silver markets are each hurtling down a dangerous path toward default. The artificial paper price has created enormous physical demand, and hampered supply production, if not delivery. The gap between the JPMorgan-led corrupted phony paper price and the legitimate physical price in actual trading markets has grown sharply, enough to force a breakdown like in any distorted market. When December contracts in gold & silver are demanded to be satisfied via delivery of the metal, it will be clear that the COMEX is running a scam. A default is highly likely. Of course, they can continue to deny contract holders the right to benefit from delivery, as they have been doing for months to ‘Non-Economic Customers' but soon the ‘Commercial Customers' will be defrauded. Arrests are warranted. We will see how this corruption unfolds."

[link to www.marketoracle.co.uk]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/10/2011 12:17 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Another source for the massive silver withdrawing:

[link to www.freerepublic.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 12:29 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
It looks like some big money has realized that by demanding physical metal they can force the banks short to pay them a high premium for lack of metal, like around 20% minimum over spot trading. Pretty nice profit, invest a $billion, make $200 million in profit in just over 4 weeks.
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 12:40 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
I've been keeping an eye on this story too. It's getting practically no coverage in the MSM (big surprise) and then this shit going down in AZ, well...
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 12:41 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Thanks OP for this new info. Should be interesting to watch what happens. Last week the puppet masters were in your face we are screwing you, we know you know, you know we know, so what are you gonna do about it. Guess we will see.

Side note:

Crude is soaring. UP about $1.50 and pushing $90.this is critical to the short-term success of our PMs so keep an eye on it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/10/2011 12:42 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Nice explanation of how precious metals are manipulated and the rapidly approaching financial apocalypse round 2 down for the count:

Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/10/2011 12:52 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Thanks OP for this new info. Should be interesting to watch what happens. Last week the puppet masters were in your face we are screwing you, we know you know, you know we know, so what are you gonna do about it. Guess we will see.

Side note:

Crude is soaring. UP about $1.50 and pushing $90.this is critical to the short-term success of our PMs so keep an eye on it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1134695

Crude is going to increase next week along with prices at the pump. They had to shut down the Alaskan pipeline so this is going to increase the cost at the pump.

Thread: Breaking >>Alaska pipeline shutdown from leak-- gas prices are going to rise
Judeth

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01/10/2011 12:56 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Beans Most of you can't afford precious metals. But that's no excuse not to stock up with grub.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/10/2011 12:58 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
:Beans: Most of you can't afford precious metals. But that's no excuse not to stock up with grub.
 Quoting: Judeth

And dont forget bullets so you can shoot the cans open.
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 01:00 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
hiding
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 01:06 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Na, dont waste your bullets on the can. Just use your handy dandy ol fashion can opener.

For anyone that says they dont have enough money to buy silver, if you save your money from eating out, coffee trips or any frivolous things we buy for a month, it would be enough to buy 10 silver eagles. Do the math.
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 01:08 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
The COMEX paper-traded precious metal ETFs is a scam.
 Quoting: Johntaraz



All paper is a scam.

US ready to bump debt limit another $1.5 trillion, good for one more year... maybe.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/10/2011 01:11 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
I would buy an ounce or two a month as a savings plan. Back when it was $5.00 an ounce this was easy.
Lately haven't been doing it since it has gone up so high.
If the COMEX crashes or defaults on silver delivery, and/or there is a run on physical the price will skyrocket.
So maybe I'll stop at the coin store this week, if they have any left.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/10/2011 01:16 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
The COMEX paper-traded precious metal ETFs is a scam.



All paper is a scam.

US ready to bump debt limit another $1.5 trillion, good for one more year... maybe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1224309

Last I heard the new repub. congress was threatening to not raise the debt. ceiling. If they don't the US will default on its debt. Secretary of the Treasury Geithner wrote a letter to congress about it.

Wrote a thread about it:
Thread: >>Treasury Secretary Geithner admits US will default on its debt unless debt increased
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 01:30 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
:Beans: Most of you can't afford precious metals. But that's no excuse not to stock up with grub.
 Quoting: Judeth



yesssssss. BEANS ! love that ranch style.
Judeth

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01/10/2011 07:33 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
7491t9 Anyway OPie it looks like you are onto something interesting. So can you please keep this thread updated throughout the week.
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 07:43 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
bump
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 12:00 PM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
5a
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 12:15 PM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Na, dont waste your bullets on the can. Just use your handy dandy ol fashion can opener.

For anyone that says they dont have enough money to buy silver, if you save your money from eating out, coffee trips or any frivolous things we buy for a month, it would be enough to buy 10 silver eagles. Do the math.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1134695


Or rolls of nickels or pre 1983 pennies. Nickels have $.07 of melt metal in them at current silver prices. If silver were to go to it's inflation adjusted high of around $120 per ounce, then nickels would have almost $0.25 of melt metal in them.
GirlGenius

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01/10/2011 12:16 PM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
So, naturally the price drops, lol.
For nothing is secret that will not be revealed…
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 12:21 PM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
So, naturally the price drops, lol.
 Quoting: GirlGenius


The quoted price you see on the markets is in the futures or papers markets and includes a 5,000 ounce lot of silver. 1 futures contract represents 5,000 ounces. The big banks like JP Morgue can issue as many paper or futures contracts as they want without any regard for actual physical metal they have in the bullion banks, that means they are "short".

If all the contracts they have sold were to want delivery of the physical metal at the end of the contract, instead of a cash settlement or rolling that contract out into the future, and the bank did not have the metal in storage then the bank would have to settle at a higher price than the spot price on the day the contract expired.

This means they flood the future's markets with paper claims hoping to drive the spot price down, if the spot price is lower they can always go out into the market to obtain metal at lower prices. The game only ends when people demand their physical metal.
GirlGenius

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01/10/2011 02:11 PM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
So, naturally the price drops, lol.


The quoted price you see on the markets is in the futures or papers markets and includes a 5,000 ounce lot of silver. 1 futures contract represents 5,000 ounces. The big banks like JP Morgue can issue as many paper or futures contracts as they want without any regard for actual physical metal they have in the bullion banks, that means they are "short".

If all the contracts they have sold were to want delivery of the physical metal at the end of the contract, instead of a cash settlement or rolling that contract out into the future, and the bank did not have the metal in storage then the bank would have to settle at a higher price than the spot price on the day the contract expired.

This means they flood the future's markets with paper claims hoping to drive the spot price down, if the spot price is lower they can always go out into the market to obtain metal at lower prices. The game only ends when people demand their physical metal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432



Yes, I know that but thanks. I am a silver bug - I laugh at the manipulation because it will not be able to continue much longer :)
For nothing is secret that will not be revealed…
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 02:16 PM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
So, we already knew this, does this mean actual COMEX collapse coming soon?
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2011 04:55 PM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
Or rolls of nickels or pre 1983 pennies. Nickels have $.07 of melt metal in them at current silver prices. If silver were to go to it's inflation adjusted high of around $120 per ounce, then nickels would have almost $0.25 of melt metal in them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


This is the truth of JFK, lawful money.
[link to www.investopedia.com]

You have the power to crash the fed in your pocket and on your dresser, why then don't you?

Free will got you here, will it save you?

A lawful man would demand lawful money in all transactions, only crooks and cheats would seek otherwise.

When its done, paper is paper, fit for a fire, metal is metal, fit for a sword.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/11/2011 12:22 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
:7491t9: Anyway OPie it looks like you are onto something interesting. So can you please keep this thread updated throughout the week.
 Quoting: Judeth

No prob, if I can find the time.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/11/2011 12:26 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
So, we already knew this, does this mean actual COMEX collapse coming soon?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1011642

If the COMEX cannot deliver on its paper silver it will cause a real problem.
It would be like a bank not being able to provide funds for customers who want to withdraw their deposits.
But as you know, they would stop trading, or close the exchange until they could come up with the physical inventory. Probably make up some reason for doing it to not alarm the public.
Kinda like the flash crash of the stock market a few months ago.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/11/2011 12:48 AM
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Re: Investors withdrawing massive amounts of physical silver-update BACKWARDATION
UPDATES 1-10-11

(Bloomberg) India May Pay for Iran Oil With Gold, Economic Times Says
India may use gold to settle payments for crude oil from Iran until the countries agree on a currency and a bank to clear the transactions, the Economic Times newspaper said, citing an Indian government official it didn’t identify.

(Bloomberg) LGT Raises Palladium, Platinum, Silver Forecasts for This Year

(Bloomberg) Silver is `common man's gold' in India as bullion expensive
The metal is still 48 times cheaper than gold per ounce.

Demand for silver in India, where imports of the metal surged more than sixfold in the first half of 2010, is increasing as investors seek an alternative to higher-priced gold, according to a trader.

“It is increasing day by day,” Ketan Shroff, Managing Director of Pushpak Bullions Pvt, said in a phone interview. Demand probably climbed at least 20% to 30% in the past six months, he said.

Silver futures in New York reached a three-decade high of $31.275 an ounce on Jan. 3, after rallying 84% in 2010. The metal is still 48 times cheaper than gold per ounce, data on the Bloomberg show. Gold for immediate delivery reached a record $1,431.25 an ounce on Dec. 7.

“People are accumulating silver since gold is getting unaffordable to the common man,” Shroff said in an interview on Jan. 7. Silver “has become the common man’s gold.”





GLP