Loughner's defense

You sound just like him.

+1

No he doesn't not even remotely.

Nice try though

I find it very peculiar that witnesses claim the shooter ran past the Walgreens, which is about 100 feet from where the shooting took place, and Walgreens is where Zamudio came from. Loughner was subdued about 40 feet in the other direction. Maybe Zamudio was the shooter, Loughner just the patsy. Most of the witnesses really saw nothing until it was all over. And Salzgeber, one of the guys holding down Loughner, Zamudio said he was waving the murder weapon around and telling Loughner, "I'll kill you".

There was a sniper....

I tend to believe Loughner wasn't the shooter or was very controlled. How does he hit all those people with one (extended) magazine? The magazine is known to fail, too.

The official story never made sense from Day 1.

There has to be grassy knoll. Who was on that knoll?

Actually the police say the full magazine they recovered had a malfunctioning spring and wasn't operable. I've also seen reports that the gun was inoperable but I suspect they got confused with reports about the magazine.

It actually is quite astonishing that so many people were shot in such a short time. Everyone close enough to identify the shooter is in the morgue with one or two exceptions, those exceptions ran like hell in the other direction when the shooting started and never ID'ed Loughner as the shooter.

Everyone else close enough to see anything either hit the pavement immediately or took a bullet and went down in any case. None of the witnesses report anything suggesting they were continuously watching the shooter, in fact they all report ducking behind cover or playing dead. It would have been a simple matter for Zamudio to have blasted those people then sprinted around the corner, only to return moments later and pretend to be a hero. By then Loughner was already on the ground, the gun was being passed around like a hot potato, totally contaminating it, it'll be a miracle if they get any usable fingerprints that aren't from one of the "heroes".

OP sounds intelligent - intelligent enough to do his own research. Someone in Pima county should go to nearby stores and ask if the Sheriff or FBI confiscated their video tapes - i bet yes!

Therefore.

If Loughner was the patsy, he would be dead and we would have a Jack Ruby in jail.

He ran and was tackled. thats where the "he fled" statement came from.

Grow a brain and quit looking for conspiracies every where.

I've seen reports to that effect, that all video is in the possession of the FBI. It would seem the local police have been superseded.

I guess it shouldn't surprise me that everyone is accepting the story that he did it. The media hasn't showed even the pretext of any doubt. They continually refer to "Loughner's victims" and seem to be content reporting on internet gossip concerning Loughner, not the facts of this crime.

The YouTube channel that's said to be Loughner's looks very much like an elaborate troll to me. It isn't consistent except superficially with any confirmed videos of Loughner's, such as his video walking around the junior college campus. In that video he doesn't ramble aimlessly or repeat himself or get stuck in cognitive loops of any kind, yet that's what's depicted in the text-only videos attributed to Loughner. Once this channel was exposed it took about five minutes for somebody to clone the channel utterly, demonstrating how easy it is to fake an online profile. This demonstration went largely ignored, or vilified as insensitive trolling on par with the mass murder itself.

I'm truly ashamed of my country. One of the fundamental concepts of our legal system is the presumption of innocence. In the absence of conclusive evidence of guilt, the benefit of the doubt is to be given to the defendant. Since the witness testimonies are all but useless for identification of the shooter, and the video evidence isn't forthcoming, if I were on Loughner's jury I would have to vote to acquit.

Maybe the PTB haven't learned to ALWAYS "cover your tracks", and still try to use fall-men/women for political reasons, but it still sometimes backfires.

Let me tell you why they need a fall-guy for this case - if not, everyone would forget about it in a week, but they tried to push gun control and free-speech control out of this issue.

TiMe must be getting short for the demoniacs.

As soon as anyone says anything against the official line:

"You sound like him"

look at this thread

Thread: JARED LEE LOUGHNER-REVERSE SPEECH-Sleep Deprivation Creations

do not think all is being said about what happened

I would have to agree, given the facts. Too many holes, and the prosecution's job is to lie or twist/manipulate the facts. They are not obligated to give facts which are not in favor of their prosecution of the defendant. Plain and simple.

Zamudio said in a live interview he was prepared to execute Loughner if he'd been mobile instead of under a dogpile. He also said he almost shot the man holding the gun, Salzgeber. Loughner is a skinny weakling of a kid, Zamudio is a former football player who carries a loaded pistol everywhere he goes. Loughner is a creampuff. Zamudio is hard as coffin nails. Nobody at the scene positively identified Loughner with the gun in his hand. By the time anyone could identify Loughner he was under a dogpile and the gun was in other people's hands.

One of those people was Salzgeber. Salzgeber was said by Badger to have hit Loughner with a chair in the head. Salzgeber denies this. Salzgeber is said by Zamudio to have been waving the murder weapon around and telling Loughner, "I'll kill you". Nobody reports seeing the gun in Loughner's hand, multiple witnesses report Salzgeber alternately harming, choking and threatening to kill Laughner while waving the murder weapon around. When the police arrived they reported to dispatch they couldn't even find the gun, that it was lost in the crowd somewhere. How can they establish any chain of evidence in a circus like that? Zamudio and his accomplices utterly controlled that crime scene from the time the first bullet was fired to the time the police finished their pathetic excuse for an investigation.



Again, witnesses report him leaving the scene, by running past the Walgreens, some 100 feet north of where the shooter was standing. Loughner was subdued some 40 feet SOUTH of that point. The shooter ran in one direction, Loughner was apprehended in the other direction. It couldn't be more obvious Loughner was not the shooter, the police even looked for an accomplice until the FBI took over.

thanks for sharing OP.
i agree, it doesnt add up.

But you said no eye witnesses, they all hit the ground or ran away to never give a statement. So did they all hit the ground but the witnesses that saw a guy run away from walmart?

Or maybe the runaway was getting the hell out of dodge so as not to be victim #10?

That's not exactly what I said, you can scroll up to read it again. I said nobody positively identifies Loughner as the shooter. Nobody close enough to ID him was watching the shooter, they were all ducking behind cover or pretending to be dead or taking bullets. It's not clear from the 911 transcript who called in that report, but they said the shooter ran north PAST the Walgreens, the Walgreens is about 100 feet from where this event was staged. Loughner would have had to run all the way back along that 100 feet, then another 40 feet, to where he was subdued. If he was the shooter and wanted to reload, he had a 240 foot jog to get the job done with apparently nobody challenging him (or seeing him run back).

no, i believe in discussing this freely. the false accusers can go to hell.

no footage. that says it all.

Witnesses have never made a mistake?

believe what you want, but thats a lot of mental energy to waste on a non issue that doesn't exist. Have fun.

I've compiled every witness statement I can find. It's shocking how many people state flat out they can't remember it well. I call this a trauma based neuralizer effect, after the imaginary devices in the Men in Black movies. People who are pumped up on adrenaline and traumatized by a situation such as this are very suggestible. If you offer them a narrative at that time, they will accept it. In the military this is referred to as "debriefing", it's a combination of interrogation and suggestion that gives a predictable result in the final report.

Virtually 100% of the victims who've given public statements say they didn't see any of the shooting, they only heard it. Most of them report the first time they saw "the shooter" was after Loughner was subdued. I've addressed some of the issues with his subdual already with regards to the location and the manner.

After a crowd gets sprayed with bullets and people are laying everywhere bleeding and dying, if you see a dogpile on somebody you assume it's the shooter. The only person who actually reported seeing the gun in Loughner's hand was Salzgeber, who claimed it flew out of Loughner's hand and skittered away when they took Loughner down. This conflicts with Zamudio's testimony about Salzgeber threatening and waving the murder weapon around.

Zamudio stayed on the scene at least most of that day and was loitering around the area for at least two or three days after, giving interviews to the media, all the while wearing the black hoodie and black wool coat that witnesses say the shooter was wearing. At the end of one such interview Zamudio flashed the fist under chin, wearing an obsidian ring on his right hand. That sign is basically a death threat that says death to all who reveal the secrets of the craft. The victim's name was "Gabby", the "shooter's" name was "Loughner" (Loner?), and the "hero" of this movie wore a masonic ring and flashed the fist under chin on live national television.

Normally I ignore all this symbology crap, but sometimes it's so insulting the way they just shove it all right in our faces and gloat about it, it makes me sick. Shoving the shooter in front of everyone and calling him the hero is the greatest insult of all.

Witnesses routinely make mistakes. In fact there are whole professions that center around witnesses making mistakes. Carnivals, magic shows, con artists, swindlers and setting up patsies just to name a few.

No one is saying a witness made a mistake. Witnesses tell it how they recall it, that's not a mistake. Black-Ops plants may tell lies as part of their testimony.

Almost sounds like the shooter then jumped on Loughner. "I'll kill you (if you say a word to these witnesses like 'i didn't do it'). Then of course the Sheriff is in on it so once the cops get there and they take him away from the public all is well for their asses.

There should be some law allowing the innocent (until proven guilty) to see public figures if they "ok" to see the visitor(s).

I suspect Zamudio, the guy carrying a concealed 9mm, and Salzgeber, the guy who was waving the murder weapon around, were working together. Salzgeber kept Loughner from bolting or running his mouth, Zamudio did the shooting. I think "Colonel Bill Badger" and the Maisch woman could have been involved, or could have been "drafted" on the spot by Salzgeber and Zamudio. Zamudio could pick them by not shooting them, Salzgeber would enlist them and plant the suggestion the gun was in Loughner's hand instead of in Salzgeber's hand where everyone reported seeing it.

At the end of one such interview Zamudio flashed the fist under chin, wearing an obsidian ring on his right hand. That sign is basically a death threat that says death to all who reveal the secrets of the craft. The victim's name was "Gabby", the "shooter's" name was "Loughner" (Loner?), and the "hero" of this movie wore a masonic ring and flashed the fist under chin on live national television.

Normally I ignore all this symbology crap, but sometimes it's so insulting the way they just shove it all right in our faces and gloat about it, it makes me sick. Shoving the shooter in front of everyone and calling him the hero is the greatest insult of all.


speaking of symbology, what is the statue behind Zamudio in the picture on the following link? Looks kinda weird!

[link to articles.latimes.com]

.