Loughner's defense

"Meanwhile police say new surveillance video shows that the suspected shooter, Jared Loughner was only 2 feet away from Giffords when he allegedly shot her in the forehead."

[link to www.fox23news.com]

Of course, now that descriptions of the video are floating around, videos which presumably prove beyond doubt Loughner did the shooting, the media is starting to use terms like "allegedly" and "suspected". Why were they so sure before they saw the video, now they're very careful to say "allegedly" and "suspected"? It makes absolutely no sense, when all we had were dribs and drabs of witness testimony they had no qualms at all flatly calling Loughner not only mentally ill, dangerous, fringe, but also "the shooter", "his gun", "his victims" and so on. It's the ultimate orwellian double think.

"TUCSON - Authorities have analyzed nearly two dozen surveillance videos in the massive investigation of accused Tucson killer Jared Lee Loughner, some of which clearly show a gunman shooting federal Judge John Roll in the back as he and an injured congressional aide try to scramble under a table, officials who have viewed the footage said Tuesday.

It also shows the gunman walking toward Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and firing his first bullet into her face from two to three feet away, the officials said; he then blasts 31 more shots in a span of no more than 15 seconds. Doctors initially said the first bullet entered Giffords's head from the back, but they have since said it struck her above the left eye, and the footage leaves little doubt of that."

[link to www.washingtonpost.com (secure)]

This account says the videos "clearly show a gunman", but don't mention that gunman can be positively identified as Loughner. Again, the FBI needs to release these videos so we can come to our own conclusions. If they are going to release details like this, they might as well just release the videos. We're not little children who need to be protected from this horror. I'm sure everyone has already imagined something much more horrific than what actually happened.

They can't say they're holding the videos so the investigation isn't compromised, it's already compromised by the description of the videos. They appear to have no usable evidence that's not circumstantial, other than these videos so really the videos are their case. The jury is going to see it no matter what so claims the jury pool could be "tainted" by release of these videos is nonsense. And if we have to we'll get some amish people for his jury.

"Then, 'Judge Roll starts to push Barber down and lay on top of him, and they start to scamper under the table, but Roll is on top,' Kastigar said. 'At that point, you can see the suspect shoot Roll. Roll gets shot in the back, then he sort of appears halfway on the other side of the table. He starts to look over his right shoulder, and then he lays back down.'

Roll died at the scene, and Barber was released from the hospital in time to attend the judge's funeral. Giffords remains in serious condition.

Witnesses have given differing accounts of whether Roll was trying to protect Barber."

[link to www.washingtonpost.com (secure)]

This report indicates something strange may have been going on between Roll and Barber. Some witnesses are apparently confused about whether Roll was trying to help Barber or not. If not, what WAS he doing?

Also the report mentions this:

"Other videos from the store show the assailant firing until he has expended his entire magazine. At that point, he is tackled by bystanders."

If this is true, and if the shooter remains in sight of the camera in question until the police arrived, then it almost certainly proves Loughner had a gun in his hand and was shooting. It's difficult to say without actually seeing the video. If it's Loughner standing near the back of the line firing, he could be firing at the shooter. His handlers could have prepped him to be the "hero" in an assassination attempt, given him a gun full of blanks and then tackled him when his gun was empty. It's hard to reconcile the video of the shooter standing next to Giffords then somehow being tackled 40 feet away in the next moment. The FBI needs to release all the video.

Last Edited by Plautus on 01/19/2011 05:22 PM

"(Caveat: A fourteenth victim was injured at the scene, but not from gunfire. The police have only released the names of those injured by gunfire.)"

Pamela Simon, 63
Mavanell Stoddard, 75
George Morris, 76
Randy Gardner, 60
James Eric Fuller, 63
Bill Badger, 74
Ronald Barber, 65
Susan Hileman, 58
Mary Reed, 52
Kenneth Dorushka, 63
Kenneth Veeder, 75
James Tucker, 58"

[link to voices.washingtonpost.com]

I still haven't managed to find out who the "fourteenth victim" is, or how they were injured.

An interesting bit about one of the victims of the shooting:

"This is the second major shooting Gardner has survived, the New York Times reports. In 1970, he fled from bullets at Kent State University when members of the Ohio National Guard opened fire on students protesting the Vietnam War."

[link to voices.washingtonpost.com]

We all know how much "they" love their symbols, this guy would be a good planned victim, and shot in the foot, no less. It's actually quite amazing so many people were hit in the legs, feet, head, arms, fewer hit in center mass.

"Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' House (D) seat won't be deemed vacant while she recuperates.

The House, meanwhile, doesn't require members to relinquish their seats because illness or debilitating injury."

[link to thehill.com]

So Giffords is still a Representative, her seat is in no danger. I wonder if her attitude on certain legislations will be different now.

"Kelly, in training for the next shuttle mission in April, was at his home in Houston when he got the dreadful call, 'Gabby's chief of staff called me explaining what she knew, which at the time wasn't much. I was on a plane in 45 minutes on my way here.'

On that flight, Kelly heard the news to hard to bear.

'It was tough and one of the reasons it was tough I had the TV on and then saw that she died for about 20 minutes. So, in hindsight, that's a big mistake and I knew that going in, but it really was a difficult time.'"

[link to www.kold.com]

On the way in a plane in only 45 minutes? That's quite a feat. I guess the guy IS an astronaut, though.

Watching television on the plane? That's some plane. Did every seat have its own television? Must be first class.

He told Diane Sawyer that Pia the aide in Washington called to tell him she was shot. He turned on the TV and saw she was reported dead.

Now number one they would normally notify next of kin first, right? But, does he call anyone to confirm or ask any questions at all? NO.

He says to her that he found out she was still alive when he got to the hospital and her mother who was waiting outside the operating room told him.

Later he revised that statement to, I called her mom on the phone and she told me.

BS Neither they nor the hospital thought to inform the media who would continue to report her dead for another 2 hours?? Another BS story.

I seriously doubt the woman was ever shot.
None of the story makes a lick of sense.

Forgot to mention he said it was a private jet somebody arranged for him and his family.

That's about what I figured. It sure isn't looking good for Loughner, if the videos show exactly what is described then clearly he's guilty.

What videos? I keep hearing it referred to as THE video, like there is only one.

Hey, if they can insert John Wayne in a commercial, I reckon they can produce a video showing anything they want.

If I were the defense attorney I would subpoena every "eyewitness" interview given in the media and when I called the witness to the stand I'd play them back their own statements. After listening to that conflicting and nonsensical mess, I don't know how you could find ANYBODY guilty. I'd have every victim that lived show up and display photos I took myself of their wounds.

I'd do the background check from hell on these people.

But, then, look at who his real lead attorney is. She is there to wheedle a confession because there is no way this case could stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.

Yeah, she got Kaczynski a life sentence and McVeigh a lethal injection. I see a lethal injection in Loughner's future, just as predicted by Zamudio the day of the shooting. The really crazy thing is unless they have video clearly showing him mowing people down, I mean CLEARLY showing, so you can see his face and identify him, they seem to have no case. All the physical evidence was contaminated as it was passed around among several other people. Since none of the witnesses can positively identify him as the shooter, without video absolutely identifying him they really have nothing, though a jury can convict for any reason or no reason so he's toast either way.

A lot of crossed media statements,guess they are having a hard time keeping up too..ya know what they say about lies,gotta try to remember which ones ya told to whom.

The only one I can remember staying on script was Dr. Steve Rayle. I heard a few interviews on CNN, BBC and Fox maybe.
He said the same words almost verbatim!!

The others got carried away and got off script and had a tendancy to guild the lily.

If you watch the interview with Zamudio, beyond the ring and other circumstantial evidence(what Zamudio is wearing, how much time he spent standing around the scene, and how much press he is doing regarding this event), there is one very telling thing for me.

At roughly 4:35 the interviewer asks Zamudio if he was willing to use his gun to stop the vent and he replies(very quickly)

"Sir, when i came through the door I had my hand on the butt of my pistol and I clicked the safety off, I was ready to kill him"


Now, this is not strange in itself, but it is VERY detailed and entirely lucid way of describing the event for someone who just went through a very traumatic experience isn't it? He recalls the moment and what he did exactly.....which is very odd for a person who experienced what he experienced, but it isn't the strangest part of the statement to me. He also says he was ready to kill him(Loughner), when in fact, in other statements he was not sure who the shooter was at this point......

BUT.....



The strangest part is how he says "sir".....listen very carefully, he says "sir" like he is talking to a superior officer, or someone of higher authority to him. He is speaking and recalling the story like he is being debriefed, like he has some kind of experience in the service.

Does anyone know what profession Zamudio comes from? Was he in the military or civil services?

That's what I thought too. It seemed obvious the way he referred to the wounded as the "collateral".
Who does that except Military?

Then again, who buy cigarettes from a drug store?
Nobody, that's who. I'm surprised they sell them. It's a psychological thing, most smokers won't buy cigarettes from a drug store.

Good thread, OP (and other contributors). It's so obvious Loughner was a patsy.

For sure, his entire interview sounds absolutely rehearsed and at some points it appears as though he lets his background slip a little bit to the point of being obvious to anyone listening carefully enough.

I wonder what his background is? What is Zamudio's history. He is pretty young(24?) but talks like he has years of experience with this type of event.

Just weird to me. I immediately noticed how he was talking.....

"As I came out of the (Laundry and Sara(sp?) I saw several individuals wrestling with him, and uhhh, I came running, I was already at a full sprint......"


"No time to think about anything......."


"I saw another individual holding the firearm, and I kind of assumed he was the shooter, so I grabbed his wrist and told him to drop it and forced him to drop the gun on the ground, when he did that everyone said "no no its this guy its this guy" and I proceeded to help hold that man down"


"Luckily they had already begun the solution" wtf??

"you are damn right, this is my country...."


Just a load of really weird commentary coming out of Zamudio's mouth regarding this event.....he has had to have some kind of military or law enforcement training, people do not usually use this type of language post event.

My first impression is he is an MP.

Definitely has some time in some kind of service.

No doubt about it.

"'We talked about it,' Kelly said. 'She would say, you know, "I'm somewhat concerned that at some point somebody's going to shoot me."'

He told Giffords that attacks on members of Congress were rare occurrences in modern America, the most recent fatal incident being the killing of California Congressman Leo Ryan in 1978. Ryan was investigating the activities of People's Temple founder, Rev. Jim Jones.

Kelly also told reporters that Giffords rebuffed his suggestions that she curtail the number of public events she holds."

[link to www.explorernews.com]

What an odd thing for a husband to say, don't worry honey, you won't get killed, the last fatal attack on a Congress member was 1978. Why does he even know this? In any case, that's a relief. I guess they don't consider Paul Wellstone or Sonny Bono to be murders.

Last Edited by Plautus on 01/20/2011 09:17 AM

"As I watched the televised memorial in Arizona last night, it occurred to me that someone planned a memorial service and a pep rally broke out. In a wildly inappropriate display of mirth, rock star adulation, screams from the crowd and raucous applause, the purported memorial service held at University of Arizona for those who fell at the hands of a shooter earlier in the week went badly awry Wednesday night.

Nothing this gauche has been seen since the classless memorial-turned-pep rally held for Minnesota Senator Paul Wellstone that got so many in trouble back in 2002."

[link to www.associatedcontent.com]

Isn't your dick raw from all that whacking yet?

Hey, I just realized Giffords' husband Mark Kelly has the same haircut as Loughner. Oh noes!!!111one1

The only thing that makes my dick raw is your mom's snaggly teeth, tell that bitch to go see a dentist.

I didn't know you were a necrophiliac...

That goes a long way to explaining your obsession...

No this was before you were born, at a gang bang in my old frat house, in fact I would have been your daddy but there was a goat in line ahead of me so I went in the back door.