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Loughner's defense

 
Plautus  (OP)

User ID: 933740
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01/24/2011 04:38 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
"Tucson shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner has pleaded not guilty to attempting to assassinate US Representative Gabrielle Giffords.

Loughner also denied attempting to murder two of Ms Gifforrds' staff members."

[link to news.sky.com]

Loughner denies attempted murder. Is he blissfully unaware of the video evidence? Has his lawyer completely ignored the news coverage? Why on Earth would he plead not guilty if they have such a huge mountain of evidence against him? Maybe he's pleading not guilty to attempted murder because he thinks he killed everyone. Maybe he's pleading not guilty to murder because he was attempting performance art and impromptu cosmetic surgery with bullets. Let's see are there any other lone nut theories other people could come up with to work around yet another fact of the case?

Last Edited by Plautus on 01/24/2011 04:58 PM
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 04:47 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
"Loughner, 22, faces federal charges of trying to assassinate Giffords and attempting to murder two of her aides. He will later face state charges dealing with other victims.

U.S. District Judge Larry Burns of San Diego asked Loughner attorney Judy Clarke whether there was any question about her client's abilities to understand the case against him.

'We are not raising any issues at this time,' Clarke said."

[link to www.npr.org]

For those who understand the implications of the above, Loughner's lawyer is saying he is competent to stand trial, in other words, he is not insane, he understands what's going on and he knows what he's accused of. That's why he's pleading innocent.

Let's see which of the lone nut theories we can throw out now:

1. Loughner will get off on an insanity plea
2. Loughner is detached from reality
3. Loughner is suicidal ("by cop")
4. hmm...I guess all the "lone nut" theories are excluded

Also from this article:

"Investigators have said Loughner was mentally disturbed and acting increasingly erratic in the weeks leading up to the shooting. If he pleads not guilty by reason of insanity and is successful, he could avoid the death penalty and be sent to a mental health facility instead of prison."

This is why everyone is so convinced he's insane, because the media keeps saying it, the police may or may not have said it, we only have the media gossip to go on there, and every swinging dick on the internet is saying it. One would think if he was in any way insane or thought that killing people was right any competent lawyer could immediately get him transferred to a very comfortable psychiatric ward where he'd be sedated and observed 24/7.

Is his lawyer just a fucking retard or is she merely playing devil's advocate since everyone in the whole fucking world is calling her client insane? It's absurd, everyone should see it's absurd, it's utterly defeating that even a single person at this point has the fucking cojones to even question the idea that he might be innocent. OF COURSE he might be innocent, despite the media hysteria and pathological yellow journalism, no evidence has yet been presented that convincingly makes the case for his guilt.

Clearly he's denying to his lawyer that he committed this crime. No lawyer can legally advise a client to plead not guilty when that client admits to them they are guilty. Lawyers are above all officers of the court, they are expected to behave as such. This woman is a federal court officer, she's under enormous scrutiny, and you can bet she would not advise her client to plead innocent if he confessed his guilt to her. She would advise him to plead guilty then offer the extenuating circumstances at the sentencing. That's the only ethical move in such a circumstance, and we should assume his lawyer is ethical since she's employed.

Last Edited by Plautus on 01/24/2011 04:56 PM
SnakeAirlines

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01/24/2011 04:57 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
Why on Earth would he plead not guilty if they have such a huge mountain of evidence against him?
 Quoting: Plautus


Because like you, he is insane...

duh

rolleyes
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
SnakeAirlines

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01/24/2011 05:01 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
No lawyer can legally advise a client to plead not guilty when that client admits to them they are guilty.
 Quoting: Plautus


Yet another CostCo law degree holder heard from folks...

You just make this shit up as you go along, huh?
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 05:02 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
Because like you, he is insane...
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Any competent defense attorney could get you immediately committed on the grounds of insanity. They could do the same for Loughner, IF he was insane. Clearly his lawyer doesn't think he is, or she'd raise competency issues. The judge asked her if she had any, she said not at this time. Does it take her a long time to recognize insanity? Apparently she hasn't watched the news, because everyone who saw his mug shot and a few tabloid headlines KNOWS he's insane. Maybe she's blinded by her passion for lone nut mass murderers and serial killers. She's spent enough time defending their way into life sentences and lethal injections. I guess if they make her wet they get a life sentence, if not they get the death penalty. So from that we can conclude she likes self-sufficient guys, hates soldiers. Maybe Loughner will tickle her fancy and get off with a life sentence. Oh, wait, HE'S NOT FACING THE DEATH PENALTY, JACKASS. You and the media repeaters seem obsessed with this idea he will "avoid the death penalty" by being insane. It's a sick fucking joke.

Oh, also, eat my ass, you fucking troll.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2011 05:04 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
There was a sniper....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1158839


IT WAS A SETUP.

i mean: THE NOTE IN HIS SAFE? SERIOUSLY. BULLLLLLLSHIT>

>the judge was the target>> FIND WHAT HE WAS ALIGNED AGAINST AND YOU FIND WHO PAID THE SNIPER.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2011 05:05 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
Who's mourning for this poor kid, who's shouting at the rooftops that they know who, why and how it happened? It seems everybody is absolutely fucking clueless when it comes to some peon smoke shop employee but as soon as federal judge is executed everyone just "knows" that somebody else was the target. Where is the outrage over this kid's death? Where is the hunt for the killer and possible accomplices?

This is just one of Tucson's 40-odd murders every year that is completely unremarkable. Unremarkable in that nobody seems to be remarking on it. Where are all you noisy mother fuckers saying you know that shooter must be crazy? Where are his mug shots? Did the police rope off the whole area for days on end? Has the entire nation's mass media fallen asleep or do they just not find this as juicy as a member of Congress getting her brain transplanted into a clone?

This fucking shit sickens me, just because people were standing in line to see Giffords suddenly their lives are worth more than this kid working in a convenience store. We see this kind of disgusting mentality every day from the media, every day there should be this indignation at their obvious ignorance and banality. Why aren't there fifty threads here about this poor young man who was murdered in cold blood?

"Police were investigating a fatal shooting that took place in the parking lot of a north-side smoke shop around 1 p.m. Sunday.

When police arrived at Sky Smoke Shop, 247 W. Grant Road, near North Oracle Road, they found Dereck Castro, 21 with gunshot injuries, said Sgt. Diana Lopez, a Tucson Police Department spokeswoman. He was pronounced dead at the scene."

[link to azstarnet.com]
 Quoting: Plautus


On a lark, I looked the guy up. He had a MySpace page used apparantly only once to open it. One year ago 1/25/10.
I wonder if there is something more to this shooting than random violence. Odd it doesn't say the police traced the car or checked for prints. I will have to assume they did.
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 05:05 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
No lawyer can legally advise a client to plead not guilty when that client admits to them they are guilty.
 Quoting: Plautus


Yet another CostCo law degree holder heard from folks...

You just make this shit up as you go along, huh?
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Lawyers do not advise clients to plead not guilty if the client confesses guilt. What do you know about the legal system that you didn't learn from watching television? Eat my ass, you fucking troll.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2011 05:05 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
There was a sniper....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1158839


IT WAS A SETUP.

i mean: THE NOTE IN HIS SAFE? SERIOUSLY. BULLLLLLLSHIT>

>the judge was the target>> FIND WHAT HE WAS ALIGNED AGAINST AND YOU FIND WHO PAID THE SNIPER.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1223577



was the note handwritten?
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2011 05:08 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
Why on Earth would he plead not guilty if they have such a huge mountain of evidence against him?
 Quoting: Plautus


Because like you, he is insane...

duh

rolleyes
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


not guilty by reason of insanity = go home to outpatient treatment with a bottle of pills ABSOLVED of ALL CULPABILITY = no crime occurred.
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 05:08 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
There was a sniper....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1158839


IT WAS A SETUP.

i mean: THE NOTE IN HIS SAFE? SERIOUSLY. BULLLLLLLSHIT>

>the judge was the target>> FIND WHAT HE WAS ALIGNED AGAINST AND YOU FIND WHO PAID THE SNIPER.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1223577


I don't know about any sniper, the most likely suspect to me seems to be Zamudio. Those people were all standing behind a rope line, Zamudio was a football player and could have easily knocked any of those old farts on their asses. He might have even pistol whipped one or two of them. With a shooter like Zamudio it really doesn't matter who else is there, that guy is a fucking gorilla and has been pulling triggers for years, by the time anyone really realized what was going on and could react he was out of bullets and out of sight.

Last Edited by Plautus on 01/24/2011 05:08 PM
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 05:09 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
Why on Earth would he plead not guilty if they have such a huge mountain of evidence against him?
 Quoting: Plautus


Because like you, he is insane...

duh

rolleyes
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


not guilty by reason of insanity = go home to outpatient treatment with a bottle of pills ABSOLVED of ALL CULPABILITY = no crime occurred.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1223577


That only happens if your family is tight with the Bush family. See: John Hinckley Jr.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2011 05:10 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
No lawyer can legally advise a client to plead not guilty when that client admits to them they are guilty.
 Quoting: Plautus


Yet another CostCo law degree holder heard from folks...

You just make this shit up as you go along, huh?
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines



lol lawyer CALLS THE SHOTS. send the guy to get a mental evaluation and he wont even have to stand trial.
SnakeAirlines

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01/24/2011 05:15 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
Because like you, he is insane...
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Any competent defense attorney could get you immediately committed on the grounds of insanity.
 Quoting: Plautus


Not unless the defendant AGREES to be tested and committed...

You really are so far out of your ken on this, it just amuses me...

chuckle
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
SnakeAirlines

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01/24/2011 05:17 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
No lawyer can legally advise a client to plead not guilty when that client admits to them they are guilty.
 Quoting: Plautus


Yet another CostCo law degree holder heard from folks...

You just make this shit up as you go along, huh?
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Lawyers do not advise clients to plead not guilty if the client confesses guilt. What do you know about the legal system that you didn't learn from watching television? Eat my ass, you fucking troll.
 Quoting: Plautus


The Lawyer has to plead the way the client wishes, or the client can petition for a lawyer that will...

tool
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
SnakeAirlines

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01/24/2011 05:19 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
Why on Earth would he plead not guilty if they have such a huge mountain of evidence against him?
 Quoting: Plautus


Because like you, he is insane...

duh

rolleyes
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


not guilty by reason of insanity = go home to outpatient treatment with a bottle of pills ABSOLVED of ALL CULPABILITY = no crime occurred.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1223577


You can NOT actually be this stupid...

What am I saying?

You're insane...

duh

laugh
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
SnakeAirlines

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01/24/2011 05:21 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
No lawyer can legally advise a client to plead not guilty when that client admits to them they are guilty.
 Quoting: Plautus


Yet another CostCo law degree holder heard from folks...

You just make this shit up as you go along, huh?
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines



lol lawyer CALLS THE SHOTS. send the guy to get a mental evaluation and he wont even have to stand trial.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1223577


Another clueless fuckwit heard from...

chuckle
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 05:28 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
No lawyer can legally advise a client to plead not guilty when that client admits to them they are guilty.
 Quoting: Plautus


Yet another CostCo law degree holder heard from folks...

You just make this shit up as you go along, huh?
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines



lol lawyer CALLS THE SHOTS. send the guy to get a mental evaluation and he wont even have to stand trial.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1223577


That's absolutely correct, if either the prosecution or the defense calls for a psychological evaluation, all court proceedings are suspended, the suspect may remain in custody indefinitely until a ruling is made either way. A defense lawyer can use it to delay, a prosecutor can use it to malign the defendant, or to delay if his case is weak, or any of a host of other strategic reasons that basically only benefit the state.
new JEruSalem rUSs

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01/24/2011 05:28 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
I think everyone needs to repent and set up the New Jerusalem




Thu Jan 11/10/10
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 05:29 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
Because like you, he is insane...
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Any competent defense attorney could get you immediately committed on the grounds of insanity.
 Quoting: Plautus


Not unless the defendant AGREES to be tested and committed...

You really are so far out of your ken on this, it just amuses me...

 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


You don't have a clue, shut the fuck up.
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 05:31 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
The Lawyer has to plead the way the client wishes, or the client can petition for a lawyer that will...
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


The lawyer can also refuse to represent the client on many ground, one of which is ethical, and no attorney can legally or lawfully advise their client to plead not guilty if that client confesses, which is probably why so many people lie to their public defenders, because they're officers of the court and obliged to report confessions of crimes.
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 05:32 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
Why on Earth would he plead not guilty if they have such a huge mountain of evidence against him?
 Quoting: Plautus


Because like you, he is insane...

duh

rolleyes
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


not guilty by reason of insanity = go home to outpatient treatment with a bottle of pills ABSOLVED of ALL CULPABILITY = no crime occurred.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1223577


You can NOT actually be this stupid...

What am I saying?

You're insane...

duh

laugh
 Quoting: SnakeAirlines


Stop abusing people in this thread, jackass. You better get that basement cleaned up before your mother comes down there for your laundry, if she slips on one more buttplug in a candy bar wrapper you are out on your ass.
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 05:33 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
I think everyone needs to repent and set up the New Jerusalem
 Quoting: new JEruSalem rUSs


Um...okay...nice mustache.
Skipper
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01/24/2011 05:37 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
The OP has brought up numerous points. I don't know why the troll or shill keeps taking potshots, but if you don't feed him, he WILL die of hunger for attention. Lee Harvey Oswald also was laughing and saying he didn't do the crime. We know how that turned out.
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 07:59 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
"With a broad smile on his face, accused Tucson gunman Jared Loughner pleaded not guilty today to several charges stemming from the deadly shooting earlier this month.

Shackled at his waist and ankles, Loughner did not stop smiling during the court proceedings, staring straight ahead as the crowded courtroom looked on.

He remained silent during the arraignment, allowing his lawyer, Judy Clarke, to enter the not guilty plea for him.

With a fresh buzz cut and clad in an orange wrinkled jumpsuit, Loughner stood as directed when U.S. District Judge Larry Burns entered the courtroom."

[link to abcnews.go.com]

Why do they keep saying the guy was smiling? Who really gives a shit what the expression is on his face. Is it relevant? Is it even accurate? How do they distinguish between smiling and grimacing? The photos of Loughner that show him smiling demonstrate he has a toothy grin, not some "crazy" smirk. Presumably he was happy in the previous photographs and isn't happy being stuck in prison for the rest of his life. Why the fuck should he be smiling?

Do they put mercury in your koolaid when you get a communications degree or what?
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 08:08 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
"Loughner has been held at the Phoenix Correctional Institution, which is located 140 miles north of Tucson, but in court today the prosecution argued for the case to be moved back to Tucson.

Clarke said she wants the opportunity to talk about where Loughner would be housed if the case were to be moved back to Tucson, and said she would inform the court of her concerns in the next few days. Clarke did not mention anything regarding Loughner's mental competency."

[link to abcnews.go.com]

I find it very strange this guy was immediately moved to another jurisdiction and now the prosecution is claiming too much hardship for witnesses and police to travel from Tuscon to Phoenix. Are you fucking kidding me?

Why do they need witnesses to be there for more than a day? All the prosecutor needs to do is roll the video and have the victims come in and say "yeah that's what happened", prosecution rests, right?

Oh of course they'll have to delve into the last 20 years of this kid's personal history pieced together only from conflict reports with various institutions. The PROSECUTION's burden is bizarre in an assassination allegation, they essentially have to prove motive, not guilt, the guilt is presupposed.

The prosecution will paint some sort of Taxi Driver caricature of this kid and the defense will be put in the position of proving he's NOT crazy, they'll spend 90% of their time explaining 150 different variations of "that guy is creepy" recollections. When the jury sees a guy explaining over and over why he wouldn't have chosen Giffords to assassinate they're going to go away thinking he's guilty, whether they see a video or not, or what that video shows. They won't even ask that kid "did you do it?" They won't ever even think it, no matter what the evidence shows.

It wouldn't surprise me if they don't trust this sort of sleight of hand conviction, so they want to stack the deck by moving it back to Tucson, and quite possibly trying to get his throat slit in jail meanwhile.

Last Edited by Plautus on 01/24/2011 08:09 PM
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2011 08:27 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
I think everyone needs to repent and set up the New Jerusalem




Thu Jan 11/10/10
 Quoting: new JEruSalem rUSs

What the fuck is this shit?
Plautus  (OP)

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01/24/2011 08:45 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
I think everyone needs to repent and set up the New Jerusalem
 Quoting: new JEruSalem rUSs

What the fuck is this shit?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1067663


Clearly it's the most awesome shit on the internet.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2011 09:25 PM
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Re: Loughner's defense
I think everyone needs to repent and set up the New Jerusalem
 Quoting: new JEruSalem rUSs

What the fuck is this shit?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1067663


Clearly it's the most awesome shit on the internet.
 Quoting: Plautus


crazy
Plautus  (OP)

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01/25/2011 10:47 AM
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Re: Loughner's defense
So why are we not getting video of this incident? There's another thread that's been started about a recent brawl between a bunch of girls in a Wendy's, the video is already on the internet and all over the television:



Where is the video of the shooting in Tucson? We haven't seen a single shred of video. Is a Wendy's employee getting a concussion more newsworthy than a federal judge being executed? There surely must have been more people in that Safeway parking lot than there were in that Wendy's at the time of the fistfight. Why is there no video!?





GLP