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Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims

 
noq
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05/09/2011 12:15 PM
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Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
[link to www.popsci.com]

AUSTIN, Texas — Computer networks that can’t forget fast enough can show symptoms of a kind of virtual schizophrenia, giving researchers further clues to the inner workings of schizophrenic brains, researchers at The University of Texas at Austin and Yale University have found.

The researchers used a virtual computer model, or “neural network,” to simulate the excessive release of dopamine in the brain. They found that the network recalled memories in a distinctly schizophrenic-like fashion.

Their results were published in April in Biological Psychiatry.

“The hypothesis is that dopamine encodes the importance — the salience — of experience,” says Uli Grasemann, a graduate student in the Department of Computer Science at The University of Texas at Austin. “When there’s too much dopamine, it leads to exaggerated salience, and the brain ends up learning from things that it shouldn’t be learning from.”

The results bolster a hypothesis known in schizophrenia circles as the hyperlearning hypothesis, which posits that people suffering from schizophrenia have brains that lose the ability to forget or ignore as much as they normally would. Without forgetting, they lose the ability to extract what’s meaningful out of the immensity of stimuli the brain encounters. They start making connections that aren’t real, or drowning in a sea of so many connections they lose the ability to stitch together any kind of coherent story.

The neural network used by Grasemann and his adviser, Professor Risto Miikkulainen, is called DISCERN. Designed by Miikkulainen, DISCERN is able to learn natural language. In this study it was used to simulate what happens to language as the result of eight different types of neurological dysfunction. The results of the simulations were compared by Ralph Hoffman, professor of psychiatry at the Yale School of Medicine, to what he saw when studying human schizophrenics.

In order to model the process, Grasemann and Miikkulainen began by teaching a series of simple stories to DISCERN. The stories were assimilated into DISCERN’s memory in much the way the human brain stores information-not as distinct units, but as statistical relationships of words, sentences, scripts and stories.

“With neural networks, you basically train them by showing them examples, over and over and over again,” says Grasemann. “Every time you show it an example, you say, if this is the input, then this should be your output, and if this is the input, then that should be your output. You do it again and again thousands of times, and every time it adjusts a little bit more towards doing what you want. In the end, if you do it enough, the network has learned.”


read more:
[link to www.popsci.com]

Last Edited by Account Deleted by User on 05/09/2011 02:27 PM
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:21 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
That's pretty cool.

And at the same time, frightening.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:26 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
Something tells me it's not a good idea to be trollin' the AI.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:31 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
So these computers could eventually wind up like Washington?
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:34 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
The only thing that you can learn from computer's is the internet, exactly what the world want's is in the internet, money and sex and that's it
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:34 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
Artificial Intelligences have all the same weakness as any other organism. They have bugs, viruses, and insanity. Why? Because they exist in the same reality as we do.

I say this all the time. All of these trans humanists who want to turn into robots so they can live forever and live in some utopia are fools.

Their robot bodies and brains or whatever will need sustenance. They will compete over resources. They will "age." They will be replaced by smarter, next generation robots that don't want the competition. They will have viruses, break down, have bugs, and problems resembling what we call insanity.

so why bother?

Same goes for AI. The threat isn't that AI will "decide" to kill us. But more likely it will have a glitch that will result in some totally weird behavior.

Just like Fukushima had an unforeseen "glitch".

JON
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:37 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
so we are biological computer simulation? It all makes sense now. Wake up Neo......The matrix has you.....follow the white rabbit

fuck it give me the red pill
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:41 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
So these computers could eventually wind up like Washington?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352713


No, the computer program had the basic honesty and dignity
to confess to being responsible for the terrorism. Denial
is the ultimate routine in Washington.


This is an example of how they view us:


“With neural networks, you basically train them by showing them examples, over and over and over again,” says Grasemann. “Every time you show it an example, you say, if this is the input, then this should be your output, and if this is the input, then that should be your output. You do it again and again thousands of times, and every time it adjusts a little bit more towards doing what you want. In the end, if you do it enough, the network has learned.”

"Network programming".
Hmm, ever heard of that before?
Meow...

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05/09/2011 12:41 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
So these computers could eventually wind up like Washington?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352713


^THIS^ tounge
The evil that men do lives after them.

'A Republic,if you can keep it.'
American Jedi
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05/09/2011 12:43 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
Kewl! Lets make SKYNET a little more insane, that'll work out really well!


Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:45 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
And let's not forget that when these networks are supposed to interact with each other that some of them have been programed by one-tards who do math one way, and some have been programmed by nine-tards who do it another...and it looks like all of them use spell-check which is apparently updated on-the-fly also.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:46 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
So these computers could eventually wind up like Washington?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1352713


No, the computer program had the basic honesty and dignity
to confess to being responsible for the terrorism. Denial
is the ultimate routine in Washington.


This is an example of how they view us:


“With neural networks, you basically train them by showing them examples, over and over and over again,” says Grasemann. “Every time you show it an example, you say, if this is the input, then this should be your output, and if this is the input, then that should be your output. You do it again and again thousands of times, and every time it adjusts a little bit more towards doing what you want. In the end, if you do it enough, the network has learned.”

"Network programming".
Hmm, ever heard of that before?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 860229


ohno
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:48 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
Four years ago... No, it was yesterday. Today I... No, that wasn't me.
Sometimes I... No, I don't.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 12:50 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
Fascinating.
spock
I've heard that schizophrenics are more aware, but apparently it's more accurate to say their brains don't prioritize properly.

And replicating it in computers........wow!
mrphilosophias

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05/09/2011 12:54 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
but everything is connected...maybe not directly, but make no mistake about it-everything is inextricably entwined
Some Salt & Flavor-conscious Christian hip-hop: [link to www.soundclick.com]
Least Servant

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05/09/2011 12:58 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
I have some training in this field.

The neural networks they use are not nearly as complex as even the simplest human model would have to be so no need to worry about the tinfoil hats just yet.

But they are damn sophisticated and actually very good predictors of human behavior... the ah ha moment for clinicians of the predictive power of these models is when you can start with neutral inputs and over time condition a population of these models to show the same ratios of symptomatic behavior for a certain disease with some probabilistic input and circuit weighting.

In general, the implementation of this for clinical practice has been very limited, so most of these networks are seen in the less publicized and funded field of computational psychology.

I attended a great lecture not long ago that presented these models couched in the theories of basic science and scientific evolution and the presenter demonstrated using the number of mathematical models present in physics, biology, and psychiatry in a convincing fashion that psychiatry as a science is somewhere in the 1600's or so. :)

Last Edited by Least Servant on 05/09/2011 01:00 PM
:romaflag:
Not enough to fight, too many to die.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 01:02 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
I've worked with NN/AI for almost 15 years and I've noticed strong parallels in the work we do (for financial markets and investment) and the 'climate change' models that have erroneously predicted the 'global warming' trends that have recently broken down.

These 'thinking machines' are miraculous in their achieved results, so long as you view their conclusions in light of the depth and quality of data that you are able to supply them. (which relates to available, accurate data, but also computing power and the ability to write software that correctly identifies key turning points and the ability to reject elements that no longer apply. In others, what you throw out is just as important as what you keep.

In current conspiracy theories, it's starting to seem like EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, because of the data that really (taken in a sober and reflective HUMAN moment of discernment) has no business being included anymore, and completely changes the outcome of theory, once removed from the stream of reasoning.

Last Edited by Account Deleted by User on 05/09/2011 02:27 PM
Least Servant

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05/09/2011 01:04 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
I've worked with NN/AI for almost 15 years and I've noticed strong parallels in the work we do (for financial markets and investment) and the 'climate change' models that have erroneously predicted the 'global warming' trends that have recently broken down.

These 'thinking machines' are miraculous in their achieved results, so long as you view their conclusions in light of the depth and quality of data that you are able to supply them. (which relates to available, accurate data, but also computing power and the ability to write software that correctly identifies key turning points and the ability to reject elements that no longer apply. In others, what you throw out is just as important as what you keep.

In current conspiracy theories, it's starting to seem like EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, because of the data that really (taken in a sober and reflective HUMAN moment of discernment) has no business being included anymore, and completely changes the outcome of theory, once removed from the stream of reasoning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1359408


A friend of a friend of mine who has a background in computational biology wrote one of the premier trading algorithms making money right now. 5a
:romaflag:
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Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 01:10 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
They've found a way to induce some of the symptoms of schizophrenia in a neural network, which is great.

That doesn't mean they've modelled a schizophrenic human brain.

They haven't modelled a brain at all, that would require input from all senses, language centers, subconscious, all sorts of different neurotransmitters running around, social interaction as a member of a social species etc.

What they've done is told the computer "... if this is the input, then this should be your output, and if this is the input, then that should be your output." ( [link to scienceblog.com] )

Then they "increas[ed] the system’s learning rate-essentially telling it to stop forgetting so much."
They just confused the network. It didn't know what outputs were expected anymore... and it started returning delusional stories. That's cool, that's really cool. I have doubts that the computer knows what "self" is, but it's still cool.

But it's a real stretch to say they've modelled schizophrenia (which they aren't claiming, that's the popsci headline)... and it seems like a mistake to think that this proves that "increased dopamine" is the one and only cause of schizophrenia.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 01:15 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
My computer suffers from “Persistent Sexual Arousal Syndrome” (AKA: Spontaneous Orgasms).

Is this normal?

Least Servant

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05/09/2011 01:17 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
My computer suffers from “Persistent Sexual Arousal Syndrome” (AKA: Spontaneous Orgasms).

Is this normal?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1298593


So the debug message is "small fatal error"? hmm
:romaflag:
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Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 01:26 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
So the debug message is "small fatal error"? hmm
 Quoting: Least Servant


I thought it was a screen saver at first, but after the screen goes black, it’s followed by a fireworks display, and schizophrenic looking images, or what I would call “orgasm heaven,” with soft buzzing noises. After this I have to reboot my computer.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 01:37 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
They'll soon be able to simulate a GLPer!
5a
noq (OP)
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05/09/2011 01:47 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
haha
hmm
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05/09/2011 01:47 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
Old news,this tech is weaponized,holography(barium skies) etc.The orbs people have been seeing is part of this

Last Edited by Account Deleted by User on 05/09/2011 02:28 PM
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 01:59 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
but everything is connected...maybe not directly, but make no mistake about it-everything is inextricably entwined
 Quoting: mrphilosophias

the flap of a butterfly's wings...
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 02:01 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
So does the computer have voices in its head from the demons too?
Comedian

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05/09/2011 02:16 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
My computer suffers from “Persistent Sexual Arousal Syndrome” (AKA: Spontaneous Orgasms).

Is this normal?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1298593


So the debug message is "small fatal error"? hmm
 Quoting: Least Servant


^ French joke ^
Don't run. You'll just die tired.
Comedian

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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
They'll soon be able to simulate a GLPer!
5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 300884


Simulate?

The first thing the schitzo AI did was log in to an AC account and denounce Israel...
Don't run. You'll just die tired.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 02:17 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
All the worlds supercomputers combined, cannot come close to the complexity of the human brain. Stories like this are pushed by the materialist-reductionists to nudge man off his pedestal. We see it with the push to endow animals with the same rights as humans. This is nothing but the Marxian agenda.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2011 02:19 PM
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Re: Computer Scientists Induce Schizophrenia in a Neural Network, Causing it to Make Ridiculous Claims
That doesn't mean they've modelled a schizophrenic human brain.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1365931


Only the average glp poster.





GLP