Constitutional questions and why the “Oath-Keepers” are domestic terrorists waiting to happen. | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 05:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | THE HATRIOTS: ARMED AND DANGEROUS The plan to assassinate President Obama was called Operation Patriot. Marine Lance Corporal Kody Brittingham plotted from his barracks at Camp LeJeune, North Carolina. With maps of the Capitol Building and a dossier on Barack Obama, he penned a letter explaining his reasons for wanting to join the ranks of John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald: [link to www.thedailybeast.com] |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 06:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The rash of right-wing extremist groups from the explicitly military to overheated anti-communist compelled former President Eisenhower to speak out on the subject in the early 1960s: “I don’t think the United States needs super-patriots,” Ike gently scolded. “We need patriotism, honestly practiced by all of us, and we don’t need these people [who pretend to be] more patriotic than you or anybody else.” President Kennedy also weighed in, warning of “armed bands of civilian guerrillas that are more likely to supply local vigilantes than national vigilance." [link to www.thedailybeast.com] (great article!) |
double_frick
User ID: 1501136 United States 08/20/2011 06:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | initially my response was: "because thats how the media has painted them from the beginning" and then i'd have to add: "of course there are wrenches that have sucessfully been thrown into the cogs and completely desecrated any credibility and possibly any good intentions the group originally had" and of course, after reading what you read, i kind of see what you're saying. except that the Tea Party is not solely law enforcement or military...or even ex-military or law enforcement. i am not a tea partier by association--though i guess i share some ideals. i prefer the constitution over decimating it for the higher governmental, banking and corporate powers benefit and to our detriment. HOWEVER--its pretty clear that once we ought to revise it every so often...and not amendments...like re-write one that fits us today...and especially at the point that a revolution is looming.... i don't know if the tea partiers are in favor of revolution or simply enforcing the original constitution.... |
LoneWolf
User ID: 1512868 United Kingdom 08/20/2011 06:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 06:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | initially my response was: "because thats how the media has painted them from the beginning" and then i'd have to add: "of course there are wrenches that have sucessfully been thrown into the cogs and completely desecrated any credibility and possibly any good intentions the group originally had" Quoting: double_frickand of course, after reading what you read, i kind of see what you're saying. except that the Tea Party is not solely law enforcement or military...or even ex-military or law enforcement. i am not a tea partier by association--though i guess i share some ideals. i prefer the constitution over decimating it for the higher governmental, banking and corporate powers benefit and to our detriment. HOWEVER--its pretty clear that once we ought to revise it every so often...and not amendments...like re-write one that fits us today...and especially at the point that a revolution is looming.... i don't know if the tea partiers are in favor of revolution or simply enforcing the original constitution.... This is more about the Oath Keepers than the Teabaggers - they're two separate groups (so far!). The article I'm quoting from does a great job highlighting how the far right today portrays themselves as Keepers of the Constitution when really they ignore the Constitution to suit them, especially regarding the Judiciary. The article claims that the Oath Keepers have promised to use force if they deem it necessary. I'd like to find confirmation of this. I doubt it's been officially stated. It seems to me they've been careful to only threaten passive disobedience to the Executive branch. It's a crucial point I'd like to know more about. |
double_frick
User ID: 1501136 United States 08/20/2011 06:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 06:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It's mindblowing to me that we have a large, chartered group in America, actively posted in sensitive military and law enforcement positions, heavily armed, PROMISING TO DISOBEY THE PRESIDENT WHENEVER THEY WANT!! They're an ideologically extreme right wing ready-made military force acting COMPLETELY OUTSIDE THE CONSTITUTION! WTF?? How is that legal?? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1013463 United States 08/20/2011 06:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The oath-keepers take the same oath as Obama supposedly took when he was sworn in, to obey and defend the constitution. Their pladge is more about what they will refuse to do rather that what they will do. They pledge to not obey ten orders, each of which, if given, violates an individual right or state right clearly spelled out in the constitution. with no ambiguity. No court has it in their power to rule that any such order is with constitutional limits, n matter how one might pervert the original words. See for yourselves [link to oathkeepers.org] |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 07:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The oath-keepers take the same oath as Obama supposedly took when he was sworn in, to obey and defend the constitution. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1013463Their pladge is more about what they will refuse to do rather that what they will do. They pledge to not obey ten orders, each of which, if given, violates an individual right or state right clearly spelled out in the constitution. with no ambiguity. No court has it in their power to rule that any such order is with constitutional limits, n matter how one might pervert the original words. See for yourselves [link to oathkeepers.org] Yeah, I know about their ten oaths. I don't understand how they get away with this shit, though. I think what they're doing is absolutely unconstitional and illegal, but putting the boot down on them is asking for too much trouble. They're a threatening fucking clown posse. I don't like them one bit. Not one bit. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1013463 United States 08/20/2011 07:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.alternet.org] Whether Americans like a particular function the federal government is performing does not make that function constitutioal any more than an oath keeper memeber claiming it is unconstitutional. Polling over the recent Obama-care issue clearly showed a wide enough margin of DISAPPROVAL by the public. But it went forward, uncostitutionally????? This is like Christian all voting on which commandments are valid. The commandment are what they are. The constitution is what it is. The OP said himself that Tea party and oath keepers are separate entities. But the atricla cited tried to merge the ideologies of the tea party and the potential use of force by oath keepers. A great leap of logic imo |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1155690 United States 08/20/2011 07:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | All the oath keepers are, are swearing that they will uphold and protect the constitution. They have already made this oath before. Everyone in the military, and every president has. All the oath keepers are saying, those weren't just empty words they had to say to get a job. But that they mean it. So i guess I disagree. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1419030 United States 08/20/2011 07:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1) PROMISING TO DISOBEY THE PRESIDENT WHENEVER THEY WANT!! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15106922) They're an ideologically extreme right wing ready-made military force acting COMPLETELY OUTSIDE THE CONSTITUTION! WTF?? How is that legal?? Two dumbass shill statements. 1) NOT "whenever they want", but when an UNLAWFUL order is given 2) I'm not even going to school you on the idea of militias. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1013463 United States 08/20/2011 07:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In a nominal democracy, they can't get far simply saying that they oppose these things on ideological grounds. That is a large part of the problem. The US was not set up as, and was never meant to be a nominal democracy. We are a democratic republic. 50 states with a single entity, the federal government, charged with the functions that individual states cannot carry out for themselve. That is the function of the federal government in it's entirety. That function has been perverted slowly over (mainly) the past 100 years. The tea party and right wing conservatives and libertarians only wish is to return to the original meaning and intent of the constitution |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1013463 United States 08/20/2011 07:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The oath keeper vow to disobey potential orders concerning martial law. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever And at least 2 others pertaining to martial law. Who has a problem with these oaths? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1013463 United States 08/20/2011 07:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1013463 United States 08/20/2011 07:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 07:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1) PROMISING TO DISOBEY THE PRESIDENT WHENEVER THEY WANT!! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15106922) They're an ideologically extreme right wing ready-made military force acting COMPLETELY OUTSIDE THE CONSTITUTION! WTF?? How is that legal?? Two dumbass shill statements. 1) NOT "whenever they want", but when an UNLAWFUL order is given 2) I'm not even going to school you on the idea of militias. 1) An order is unlawful as decided by WHO? Constitutionally, the courts decide whether an order is lawful or not. When the "Oath Keepers" don't wait for the courts to disobey their orders they are acting OUTSIDE THE CONSTITUTION, ILLEGALLY. The Oath Keepers are not part of MY government. 2) Fine, then don't. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 07:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The oath keeper vow to disobey potential orders concerning martial law. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1013463We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever And at least 2 others pertaining to martial law. Who has a problem with these oaths? Sounds inocuous on paper, but how are the Oath Keepers written into the Constitution? Who are this bunch to defy the Executive branch AND ignore the Judiciary branch?? I do not trust these far right-delusion-black-helicopter-obsessed-UN-hating-Glenn-Beck-listening clowns with loaded weapons, let alone the self-conferred power to assume ultimate powers of government. It's ridiculous. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1013463 United States 08/20/2011 07:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The oath keeper vow to disobey potential orders concerning martial law. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1013463We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever And at least 2 others pertaining to martial law. Who has a problem with these oaths? Sounds inocuous on paper, but how are the Oath Keepers written into the Constitution? Who are this bunch to defy the Executive branch AND ignore the Judiciary branch?? I do not trust these far right-delusion-black-helicopter-obsessed-UN-hating-Glenn-Beck-listening clowns with loaded weapons, let alone the self-conferred power to assume ultimate powers of government. It's ridiculous. your statement is ridiculous A tad exaggerated, don't ya think? |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 08:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1) PROMISING TO DISOBEY THE PRESIDENT WHENEVER THEY WANT!! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15106922) They're an ideologically extreme right wing ready-made military force acting COMPLETELY OUTSIDE THE CONSTITUTION! WTF?? How is that legal?? Two dumbass shill statements. 1) NOT "whenever they want", but when an UNLAWFUL order is given 2) I'm not even going to school you on the idea of militias. I like how JFK described your beloved "militias": “armed bands of civilian guerrillas that are more likely to supply local vigilantes than national vigilance." Can you say, "Tim McVeigh"? They're even far WORSE than that today. They're a far-right military force extremely hostile to Democrats and primed for revolution. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 08:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | true true, i misread OP. i completely agree with you then. Quoting: double_frickif they were to try to gain their ideas fruition by force....defense is a whole different issue though, don't you think? Defense from what? The day that Barack Obama orders all gun owners into concentration camps?? I'm a lot more worried about Hatriots and Oath Keepers and Tim McVeigh terrorists inflamed by demagoguery than I am the president. The president has many constitutional checks on his power. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1511412 United States 08/20/2011 08:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | First off before mommy calls you to bed I bet you have never even been in the Coast Guard and have no idea what it means to take the Oath. You are exactly what is wrong with this country. All those people are doing is reafirming the oath they and the treasons traitor Obama and the rest of the Congress critters supposedly took and swore to uphold. Just because Obam and others deciede it is ok to not follow there oath to the country and its people there many who do. You will be the person led to slaughter with a smile on your face. But those people you trash would defend you any day,hoooah. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1511412 United States 08/20/2011 08:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1) PROMISING TO DISOBEY THE PRESIDENT WHENEVER THEY WANT!! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15106922) They're an ideologically extreme right wing ready-made military force acting COMPLETELY OUTSIDE THE CONSTITUTION! WTF?? How is that legal?? Two dumbass shill statements. 1) NOT "whenever they want", but when an UNLAWFUL order is given 2) I'm not even going to school you on the idea of militias. I like how JFK described your beloved "militias": “armed bands of civilian guerrillas that are more likely to supply local vigilantes than national vigilance." Can you say, "Tim McVeigh"? They're even far WORSE than that today. They're a far-right military force extremely hostile to Democrats and primed for revolution. McVeigh never in a 'Militia" or was he an oath Keeper, dumbass. Look at the date of JFK speech. Funny when he talks about the gangster bankers who are most likly the ones who killed him. He made a broad statment and generlazation and a very inacurate one at that. |
SnakeAirlines
User ID: 1512975 United States 08/20/2011 08:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They're a far-right military force extremely hostile to Democrats and primed for revolution. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1510692So you're just in fear because you are a "Democrat"? "Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail" deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 09:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1) PROMISING TO DISOBEY THE PRESIDENT WHENEVER THEY WANT!! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15106922) They're an ideologically extreme right wing ready-made military force acting COMPLETELY OUTSIDE THE CONSTITUTION! WTF?? How is that legal?? Two dumbass shill statements. 1) NOT "whenever they want", but when an UNLAWFUL order is given 2) I'm not even going to school you on the idea of militias. I like how JFK described your beloved "militias": “armed bands of civilian guerrillas that are more likely to supply local vigilantes than national vigilance." Can you say, "Tim McVeigh"? They're even far WORSE than that today. They're a far-right military force extremely hostile to Democrats and primed for revolution. McVeigh never in a 'Militia" or was he an oath Keeper, dumbass. Quoting: AC 692Yeah sure, he was a martyr for the militia movement, he and Terry Nichols attended meetings of the Michigan Militia, and Nichols belonged to a militia called The Patriots, but McVeigh supposedly never belonged to a militia. You got me there. Look at the date of JFK speech. Funny when he talks about the gangster bankers who are most likly the ones who killed him. He made a broad statment and generlazation and a very inacurate one at that. Quoting: AC 692I'm convinced JFK was murdered by the far right, not "bankers". They also tried a coup d'etat against FDR in the 30s. I think what JFK said about "armed bands of civilian guerillas" was right on the money. Dumbass. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1510405 United States 08/20/2011 09:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We have moved so far away from what this country once was,,, NOW if you believe in the Constitution and being a country of laws not men...You are FAR-right,,, Doesn't the military swear to uphold the Constitution,,and the Presidents orders...I guess ,,if you feel a Presidents orders are constitutional,, The problem is we have become a Nation of Powerful men and not powerful laws... |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 09:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They're a far-right military force extremely hostile to Democrats and primed for revolution. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1510692So you're just in fear because you are a "Democrat"? Well, Ann Coulter, among others, has said she wants us all killed..... |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 09:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We have moved so far away from what this country once was,,, Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1510405NOW if you believe in the Constitution and being a country of laws not men...You are FAR-right,,, Doesn't the military swear to uphold the Constitution,,and the Presidents orders...I guess ,,if you feel a Presidents orders are constitutional,, The problem is we have become a Nation of Powerful men and not powerful laws... How do you figure laws and the Constitution belong to the far-right?? I've just explained how the far-right has contempt for laws and the Constitution. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1512975 United States 08/20/2011 09:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They're a far-right military force extremely hostile to Democrats and primed for revolution. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1510692So you're just in fear because you are a "Democrat"? Well, Ann Coulter, among others, has said she wants us all killed..... Not that I doubt you, but you of course have a link to that in context, right? |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 1510692 United States 08/20/2011 09:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They're a far-right military force extremely hostile to Democrats and primed for revolution. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1510692So you're just in fear because you are a "Democrat"? Well, Ann Coulter, among others, has said she wants us all killed..... Not that I doubt you, but you of course have a link to that in context, right? "When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that John Walker is not getting the death penalty,” Coulter said in an address to the ConservativePoliticalAction Conference (CPAC). “We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors.” - Ann Coulter, 2002 And other charming stuff about blowing up the NYT office building, John Edwards being killed in "a terrorist assassination plot," and Justice Stevens being poisoned to death. Basically, the nazi biotch wants all liberals turned into soap. |