TURKEY'S PLAN "B": THE NEXT STEP

yea, tell it to people living in the countries here that were under turkish invasion for more than a centry :/

Even if Erdogan himself goes in those ships to Gaza?

And about the israeli airpower, it's great, but they are not the US and turkish air force is not a joke, too.

So what? and we were under muslim rule during almost 7 centuries. And we were the ones fighting against the turkish navy when France was an allie to the turks... but past is past.

From the link:

"Belgium, Germany, The Netherlands, Italy and Turkey: "Undeclared Nuclear Weapons States"

......

The US has supplied some 480 B61 thermonuclear bombs to five so-called "non-nuclear states", including Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey. Casually disregarded by the Vienna based UN Nuclear Watchdog (IAEA), the US has actively contributed to the proliferation of nuclear weapons in Western Europe.

As part of this European stockpiling, Turkey, which is a partner of the US-led coalition against Iran along with Israel, possesses some 90 thermonuclear B61 bunker buster bombs at the Incirlik nuclear air base. (National Resources Defense Council, Nuclear Weapons in Europe , February 2005)

By the recognised definition, these five countries are "undeclared nuclear weapons states".

The stockpiling and deployment of tactical B61 in these five "non-nuclear states" are intended for targets in the Middle East. Moreover, in accordance with "NATO strike plans", these thermonuclear B61 bunker buster bombs (stockpiled by the "non-nuclear States") could be launched "against targets in Russia or countries in the Middle East such as Syria and Iran" ( quoted in National Resources Defense Council, Nuclear Weapons in Europe , February 2005)"

An emerging Turkey led by an Islamic party and willing to relive its Ottoman heyday is not good for Europe.

Ironically the US long lobbied for Turkey to enter the EU!

So why you call the US a threat but Turkey not a threat is very strange.

Think its unlikely anything will happen at sea, for the simple fact....the Israelis (Judah) can just interdict supplies for the Palestinians on land.

Also....this is what happens when tribalism goes over the top...as it seems to have been doing on this thread:

[link to www.youtube.com]

I, too, don't totally trust this good news. It seems like a ploy in a bigger, unknown plan. It's wise to be wary with these psychopathic characters.

The US, like before the UK, are playing to divide Europe. They don't want a strong Europe, then, knowing here many morons don't want Turkey to enter the EU, the americans lobbied for it, to cause disension and to balance the power with Germany and France.
Anyway, Turkey is ruled by a moderate islamic party, not by Al-Qaeda - but hey, the saudis and other good friends of the west are almost as radical as Al-Qaeda and nobody says a shit against it!

True-both have good Air Forces. But Israel only has to protect out to 12 miles.The Turks would have to cover alot of distance and thats the weakest link. The Israelis can generate hundreds of sorties per hour.The Turks would get hit on the way out-unarmed and low on fuel.
Boats can be hit between topcover.Its just the logistics of the scenario.Nothing to do with pilots or skill level.

But turks not would need even to enter the 12 miles. Their frigates have pretty good anti-ship systems - and anti-air too, have to say. And if Israel launches a massive air attack on turkish navy in international waters - or even in Gaza's strip waters... well, the shit hit the fan...

Past is past but ours is more recent than yours. You shook of muslim rule 500-700 years ago. Countries in Eastern and Southern Europe did it 100-130 years ago.

Past is past but you have nothing to worry about the power of Morocco or Algeria. Countries in Eastern and Southern Europe on the other hand look at Turkey and may worry.

No, if all them (including the turks) would be integrated in a strong united european state. But all the fuckers, nationalists, liberals, conservatives, socialists, religious tards, pro-zionists, pro-americans, far-leftists and far-right morons are doing the impossible to avoid it. What do you think Romania or Spain are by themselves alone? An enormous shit! What about the fucking christianity which has divided and impoverished Europe for over 2000 years? the Islam, in comparison, was inoffensive.

I've been to Iceland a few times, and Icelanders don't talk like this.

(travel plug)
[link to icelandair.us]

Very few of the Icelanders I've talked with use American style obscenities. Or care all that much about Israel's "problems" either.

a strong united european state ? in a time when euro-sceptics are growing stronger? but even if it would be possible to achieve - how do you think it would work out? no offense OP, but you sound like a dreamer
and Islam as inoffensive? uhmm, could you explain that?

but to be on topic, who do you think the USA and Germany would support if a war was to take place? (which I hope will not happen)

Come on there was no European identity before Islam. The Near East and North Africa have always been important parts of the Greek and Roman civilisations heck Ancient Greek writers even said that the first Greek tribes crossed over from Asia. So in my opinion the Turks are as "European" as any EU country. I mean what the fuck is Europe anyway it is not even a continent it is too difficult to define in many way's it is an artificial concept.

I don't get offended, don't worry. And for the European state, is a desideratum more than other thing... but it's worth to think why is growing the euro-scepticism and who gets benefited from this. And I was not saying Islam is inoffensive per se, I was comparing it with the damage christianity did to Europe from the beginning - for example, causing the fall of the Roman Empire.

But for the topic, Germany? nobody gives a shit, they will be sucking israeli's cocks, as always. The US? well, they will be in a very fucked situation, cause Turkey is an strategical ally of first order, but the jewish lobby is the jewish lobby... so, we would see...

well, the truth is there was an "european unity": the roman empire. But was fucked, amongst other things, because of the christian religion growing and the shit it spread over all the continent...
But anyway, we should look further to an Euroasian space...

Last Edited by TheNihilistProphet on 09/03/2011 04:54 PM

I fully agree

see this guy can see the big picture he is not blinded by religion.

Yeah that's what I mean. North Africa and the Near-East were As "European" as Europe once and so people should not say they don't belong in the EU.

By your logic Germany should be kicked out of Europe.

By your logic Germany should be kicked out of the EU

woops ignore that one forgot to quote the guy i was talking about

Totally true. But people are biased by "race" or religious and cultural prejudices. In fact, they are enemies of a strong Europe and even they don't know, cause have been brainwashed by more than 65 years of american propaganda - for not to talk the two milennia of christian propaganda.

yea, my thoughts are the same on Germany. I only brought them into the discussion is because they have a huge Turkish population. so would be interesting to see how they react, if this situation unfolds... and USA... I' pretty sure Israel is more important for them. it wouldn't be that hard to destabilize Turkey, if they don't obey what the big brother says. even though all these 3 countries are NATO members, a country that doesnt't act like they are told to can find themselves kicked out of the club easily. there is no alliance that lasted forever as it was. but I don't think things would go this far, at least not in the near future

(well, for that christianity/unity/destabilization thing my views are quite different, but that's for an other thread I guess.)
I don't argue just for just the fun of it, but to find out other's perspectives

It's ok. But, for the three NATO countries, you were referring to US, Turkey and? I hope was not Israel, cause it is not a NATO's country.
Anyway, Turkey is very important to the West: key point between Europe and Asia, important NATO bases there, with nukes included, now it will be some radars for the anti-missiles shield there; strategically it is fundamental to control the Caucasus, Iran and the whole Middle East, and a territorial advanced place in case of conflict with Russia... but Israel... what importance it has? they say "is a democracy"... that's totally irrelevant propaganda BS. They say "it's a shield against muslim radicals"... but we have muslim countries at the gates of Europe in Gibraltar strait and in the Marmara sea - and even more, we have muslim countries inside Europe... so, what is the importance of Israel?

BTW, thanks for your good way of argumentation - it's difficult to have some rational discussions here, with so much haters and morons...

nope, not to Israel, I was referring to Germany, as I think they could play an important role in this cause of their Turkish citizens. maybe some protest, or even violence can unfold? who knows. they could certainly hurt the economy there if they wanted to, even with just refusing to work
yup, it is very true that Turkey is a strategical point right now, as a stable state. but can it play the same role, if it was raided and put under, let's say, US control? if it was occupied like some other nations? would be really hard to imagine this now, since their military power, but we've seen interesting things throughout history
just throwing these stuffs in as a possibility, as the creations of my imagination
and for Israel - their importance also lies in religious/historical stuff, I guess I don't really have to explain (biblical sites, etc) and there are many US/Israeli dual citizens. and they are important for America, not just the location of the country. kind of a prestige thing. and of course it is also a strategically important place

but anyways, I think things will settle soon. a war now would hurt both sides, and I'm not sure if they would be ready for anything serious right now

NihilistProphet, I find a lot of wisdom in your words.

It sounds as though you are looking at the world through the eyes of the ancient Romans and their very logical "Mare Nostrum" (Our Sea -- The Mediterranean) geopolitical orientation.

And thank you for the very interesting videos of Turkish military power.

Unfortunately few Americans see beyond what the MSM tells us about the Middle East, and probably not one in a hundred Americans could find Turkey on a map.

It is however, one of the world's great -- apparently moderate -- nations deeply rooted in layer upon layers of its own civilisation(s).

bumping this thread cause I think it needs more attention and discussion, pro-Turkey, pro-Israel, pro-peace, pro-anything

not much doom in the near future, but could play out interesting on the long run. tricky diplomatic questions involved