TURKEY'S PLAN "B": THE NEXT STEP

They built an empire from Spain to India in about one and half century from the beginning of the Islam expansion... they defeated the spanish visigoths, the bizantines, the persians, they arrived at the gates of Vienna twice, they controlled even your little pseudo-country for many time... they are anything, but just no cowards.

logical fallacy

Hamas? do you think? you mean, that group created by Israel and the CIA?

Where's the fallacy?

Muslims are not cowards. I know this, I live amongst 80 million Muslim people. They are more like madmen, a big majority of them are warmongers and would kill every single "infidel" they would find if they could. They barely tolerate the non-Islamic majority in Turkey, that is if you could call it tolerance.

Non-islamic majority? and what are the majority in Turkey, buddhists?

The Moslem expansion was mainly Arabs defeating Arabs. The Persian conquest was shortly after the Byzantine–Sassanid War, they conquered a crippled empire. The Turks defeated the Byzantines because they were Turks, not because they were Moslems.

I meant minority, that was a typo.

you're right, but they have lost many times with Romania although they were many more of them, their advantage was numbers, but they still lost wars, so they are stupid for that. Stefan The Great kicked a lot of turkush ass, go learn romanina history. Turkish were also very damn cruel, they were deliberately killing the intelligence and leaving only sheeple behind. Fuckers.

and my friend, Turks have "conquered" the Byzantines not because they were Turks, but because that the Byzantine Empire was raped and pillaged by the Catholics. that, too, was a crippled empire.

About Stephen The Great and his glory over stinking turkish empire.

"During his reign, he strengthened Moldavia and maintained its independence against the ambitions of Hungary, Poland, and the Ottoman Empire, which all sought to subdue the land. Stephen achieved fame in Europe for his long resistance against the Ottomans. He was victorious in 46 of his 48 battles"

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Weird argumentation, but let see...

The muslim expansion was not mainly arabs defeating arabs. North-african people were not arab, from Morocco to Egypt. Hispanic people were not arab. Persia was weak, that's true. And the byzantine's defeat took time, and was concluded by turks, but the arabs expelled the byzantines from Egypt,Syria, Palestine...
And to say the turks defeated the byzantines cause they were turks is like to say that they defeated them because they were handsome... Anyway, if to say muslims are not cowards is a fallacy, it also is to say they are cowards...

And Vlad Tepes was a charity nun.

Holy crap! No special forces chopper insertion this time?

Nice one prophet!

Well, that's a common hystorical law... empires are often built over the remains of weakened empires.

yes, indeed. that's why it's nothing to boast about.

Ok, but the wars were foughten anyway.

That was not a conquest. The Byzantines and the Ottomans joined the forces. Sure, there was a civil war, so to speak, in Byzantium to purge the Latins in their own ranks.

This one is a very good and interesting point. If you see the latest era of Byzantine Empire, it was divided in different states (Epirus, Nicaea, Trebizond), and also some latin dominions (Thessalonica, Athens, Acaia), and the turks sultanates - principally, in origin, the Sultanate of Rum, which means "of the romans". There was a real chaotical situation, with changing alliances and permanent conflict... and when the Otoman Caliphate was stablished in the former Constantinople, hence the caliph reclaimed - and in my opinion there was some reason on this - the heredity of romans and byzantines...

I think this is a very dangerous game turkey is playing here. In recent years there seems to have been a huge islamistic backlash in turkey. They seperate themselfes more and more from the Western world and are trying to revitalize some of the old ambitions of the Ottoman empire.
What the turkish nationalists fail to realize is, that they are much to weak to succeed.
An armed conflict between Turkey and Israel simply won't be tolerated, neither by the U.S. nor by the European powers.
If they are foolish enough to escalate this into an armed conflict they risk beeing totally isolated from their former allies. They will be booted out of NATO because it is unthinkable that the U.S. or Germany will engage in an armed conflict with Israel.
The Turkish economy depends very much on good access to the European markets, also a substantial part of the economy is tourism, most of it from Europe.
Although the Turkish military seems to be impressive on paper, most of its equipment consists of old decomissioned NATO equipment from Europe and the USA. Especially Germany has delivered lots of its old hardware to Turkey. The Turkish military is almost entirely dependent on arms imports from other NATO states and ironically in the past also from Israel. Turkey simple hasn't the capability to design and build their own tanks or airplanes.

The Nubians were not conquered, they converted. The Berbers actually made up the bulk of the Moslem armies after that point. The Byzantines were their own worst enemy. They chained their men together at Yarmouk with iron chains, and were routed by the Arab calvary. Later at Manzikert half the Byzantine army betrayed the other half.

The list of Valide Sultans from the middle of 15th century(the title held by the mother of a ruling Sultan in the Ottoman Empire; the position was perhaps the most important position in the Ottoman Empire after the Sultan himself.):

1481-1492 : Amina Gul-Bahar - Wife of Mehmed II, mother of Bayezid II. She was an Albanian or Serbian.
1453-1510 : Gul-Bahar Sultan - the biological mother of Selim I, wife of Bayezid II - her father had possibly converted to Islam, here exists a probability that she might be an ethnic Greek from a village near Trabzon.
1574-1583 Afife Nur-Banu - Wife of Selim II, mother of Murad III. She was born Cecilia Venier-Baffo, and was of noble Venetian birth.
1594-1603 : Safiye - Wife of Murad III, mother of Mehmed III. She was born Sofia Baffo, and like her predecessor (and cousin), was of noble Venetian birth.
1603-1603 : Handan - Wife of Mehmed III, mother of Ahmed I and Mustafa I. She was an ethnic Greek, originally named Helena or Jelena.
1617-1621 : Mah-Firuze Hatice (Khadija) - Wife of Ahmed I, mother of Osman II. She was an ethnic Serb, originally named Marija or Mariza.
1623-1648 : Mah-Peyker Kosem - Another wife of Ahmed I, mother of Murad IV and Ibrahim I. Of Greek Bosnian descent, she was originally named Anastasia.
1648-1683: Turhan Hatice - Wife of Ibrahim I, mother of Mehmed IV. She was of Ruthenian descent. Her original name was Nadya.
1687-1689: Saliha Dilashub - Another wife of Ibrahim I, mother of Suleiman II. She was of Serbian descent. Her original name was Katarina.
1695-1715: Mah-Para Ummatullah - Wife of Mehmed IV, mother of Mustafa II and Ahmed III. Originally named Evmania Voria, she was ethnically Greek and she came from Crete, then under The Most Serene Republic of Venice rule.
1730-1739 : Saliha Sabkati - Wife of Mustafa II, mother of Mahmud I. She was Serbian descent. Her original name was Jelizabeta.
1754-1756 : Shehsuvar - Another wife of Mustafa II, mother of Osman III. She was of Serbian descent. Her original name was Velinka.
1789-1807: Mihr-i-Sah - Wife of Mustafa III, mother of Selim III. She was of Genoese descent. Her original name was Agnes
1807-1808: Ayse Seniyeperver - Wife of Abdul Hamid I, mother of Mustafa IV. She was of Bulgarian descent. Her original name was Sonija.
1808-1817 : Naks-i-Dil Haseki - Another wife of Abdul Hamid I, and adoptive mother of Mahmud II. (There have been speculations that she was a cousin of Napoleon's wife Josephine.)
1839-1852 : Bezm-i-Alem - The first wife of Mahmud II, mother of Abdülmecid I. She was of Russian Jewish or Georgian Jewish descent
1861-1876 : Pertav-Nihal (Pertevniyal) - Wife of Mahmud II, mother of Abdulaziz. She was of Romanian descent.
1876-1876 : Shevkefza - Wife of Abdulmecid I, mother of Murad V. She was of Mingrelian descent.


The list of Grand Veziers (The Grand Vizier, was the greatest minister of the Sultan in the Ottoman Empire, with absolute power of attorney and, in principle, dismissable only by the Sultan himself. He held the imperial seal and could convene all other viziers to attend to affairs of the state.):


12. Veli Mahmud Pasha (1st time) 1456 1468 Greek or Croat or Serb
13. Rum Mehmed Pasha 1468 1469 Greek
14. İshak Pasha (1st time) 1469 1472 Croat or Greek.
15. Veli Mahmud Pasha (2nd time) 1472 1474 Greek[5] or Croat[5] or Serb
16. Gedik Ahmed Pasha 1474 1477 Albanian[7] or Greek[7] or Serb
18. İshak Pasha (2nd time) 1481 1482 Croat[7] or Greek
19. Davud Pasha 1482 1497 Albanian
20. Hersekzade Ahmed Pasha (Ahmed Hercegović) (1st time) 1497 1498 Bosniak from Herzegovina[7] Bosnian or Croat from Bosnia, son of Stjepan Vukčić Kosača
22. Mesih Pasha 1499 1501 Greek according to Joseph von Hammer, Devşirme
23. Hadim Ali Pasha (1st time) 1501 1503 Slavic from Devşirme,[10] Croat or Bosniak, from the noble Boronivic family (Hadim = Manservant)
4. Hersekzade Ahmed Pasha (Ahmed Hercegović) (2nd time) 1503 1506 Croat from Herzegovina[7] Bosnian or Croat from Bosnia, son of Stjepan Vukčić Kosača
25. Hadim Ali Pasha (2nd time) 1506 1511 Slavic from Devşirme,[10] Croat or Bosniak, from the noble Boronivic family (Hadim = Manservant)
26. Hersekzade Ahmed Pasha (Ahmed Hercegović) (3rd time) 1511 1511 Croat from Herzegovina[7] Bosnian or Croat from Bosnia, son of Stjepan Vukčić Kosača
27. Koca Mustafa Pasha 1511 1512 Frenk[11] or Greek
28. Hersekzade Ahmed Pasha (Ahmed Hercegović) (4th time) 1512 28 November 1514 Croat from Herzegovina[7] Bosnian or Croat from Bosnia, son of Stjepan Vukčić Kosača
29. Dukakinzade Ahmed Pasha 18 December 1514 8 September 1515 Albanian
30. Hersekzade Ahmed Pasha (Ahmed Hercegović) (5th time) 8 September 1515 26 April 1516 Croat from Herzegovina[7] Bosnian or Croat from Bosnia, son of Stjepan Vukčić Kosača
31. Hadım Sinan Pasha 26 April 1516 22 January 1517 Devşirme, Serb, from the noble Boronivic family (Hadim = Manservant)
34. Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha, also called Frenk Ibrahim Pasha 27 June 1523 14 March 1536 Italian or Greek or Croat,[13] Albanian, from Parga (The nickname Frenk refers to his European manners and tastes)



What about the Janissaries? The Janissaries were infantry units that formed the Ottoman sultan's household troops and bodyguards. The force was created by the Sultan Murad I from Christian boys.

They formed a distinctive social class which quickly became the ruling class of the Ottoman Empire, rivaling the Turkish aristocracy in one of the four royal institutions: the Palace, the Scribes, the Religious and the Military. The brightest of the Janissaries were sent to the Palace institution (Enderun), where the possibility of a glittering career beckoned.



What about the flag?

Why red was the perfect colour to say this with, we shall never know. It has no bearing to traditional tribal colours (which were white and gold) or popular Turkic colours (usually blue, white and gold). It could be because it was a colour associated with the Romans.

The city of Byzantium (Constantinople, modern Istanbul) was dedicated to Diana, goddess of the hunt, and the crescent was the symbol of Diana. In 330 CE, Constantine rededicated the city to the virgin Mary, whose star symbol was added to the previous crescent. When the Turks took possession of Constantinople, they found lots of crescent flags and adopted it as a symbol of good omen.


However, according to British historian David Nicolle, the citizens of Constantinople were treated better by their Ottoman Conquerors than their ancestors had been by the Crusaders in 1204; only about 4,000 Greeks died in the siege.

Byzantine historian George Sphrantzes was an eyewitness to the fall of Constantinople:

On the third day after the fall of our city, the Sultan celebrated his victory with a great, joyful triumph. He issued a proclamation: the citizens of all ages who had managed to escape detection were to leave their hiding places throughout the city and come out into the open, as they were remain free and no question would be asked. He further declared the restoration of houses and property to those who had abandoned our city before the siege, if they returned home, they would be treated according to their rank and religion, as if nothing had changed.

Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque, although the Greek Orthodox Church remained intact, and Gennadius Scholarius was appointed Patriarch of Constantinople.

In Mehmed's view, he was the successor to the Roman Emperor, declaring himself Kayser-i Rum, literally "Caesar of Rome", that is, of the Roman Empire.

Oh, then... the muslims were so wonderful supermen and everybody shitted themselves when they were seen coming and rapidly almost all the enemies surrendered! That's for sure the power of the faith!

Turkey Shoot

Thus saith the ADONAI YHWH; Behold, I AM against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal/ Turkey Ezek 39:1

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel

And seven months shall the House of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

all I'm saying is the Arabs have never considered to be great warriors, the fiercest warriors were always from the Steppe (Huns, Vandals, Alani, Mameluks, Mongols, Turks)

500 Templars routed Saladin's army of 26,000
but even great warriors can't make up for terrible generalship i.e. Yarmouk, Hattin, Manzikert

Not totally true. Turkey is designing their own tank (the Altay, scheduled to start production in the coming years - 2016, I think). They are one of the countries that manufacturates the F-16 for their own. They design their own frigates, corvettes and submarines - two new stealth technology corvettes are yet on sea trials, if I am not wrong. They made also their own self-propelled artillery guns of 155m and armoured vehicles, and are also building their first attack helicopters, I think. They participate in the F-35 project. Their present frigates maybe aren't the most moderns built in the US, but use many systems of weapons and electronics that are in use by the US navy in ships like the Ticonderoga cruisers... They also have modernized Leopard 2, Leopard 1, M-60s. Notice that Israel, added to the Merkavas own production, the larger number of tanks they have are also M-60s.
Then, it's not all so clear.

and don't forget that half of Byzantium died during the Palgue of Justinian just 50 years before the Arabs pushed them out of Syria

We are talking about reality, not shitty fairy tales.

Impossible.

well, King Guy fucked the crusaders
lets march our army into the desert with no water in the middle of summer during the worst drought for 100 years