TURKEY'S PLAN "B": THE NEXT STEP

and btw Saladin wasn't an Arab

and btw Saladin wasn't an Arab

Yes, was a kurd muslim... but we were talking about muslims being or not being cowards, not about arabs.

Yes, was a kurd muslim... but we were talking about muslims being or not being cowards, not about arabs.

I think this is a very dangerous game turkey is playing here. In recent years there seems to have been a huge islamistic backlash in turkey. They seperate themselfes more and more from the Western world and are trying to revitalize some of the old ambitions of the Ottoman empire.
What the turkish nationalists fail to realize is, that they are much to weak to succeed.
An armed conflict between Turkey and Israel simply won't be tolerated, neither by the U.S. nor by the European powers.
If they are foolish enough to escalate this into an armed conflict they risk beeing totally isolated from their former allies. They will be booted out of NATO because it is unthinkable that the U.S. or Germany will engage in an armed conflict with Israel.
The Turkish economy depends very much on good access to the European markets, also a substantial part of the economy is tourism, most of it from Europe.
Although the Turkish military seems to be impressive on paper, most of its equipment consists of old decomissioned NATO equipment from Europe and the USA. Especially Germany has delivered lots of its old hardware to Turkey. The Turkish military is almost entirely dependent on arms imports from other NATO states and ironically in the past also from Israel. Turkey simple hasn't the capability to design and build their own tanks or airplanes.

Not totally true. Turkey is designing their own tank (the Altay, scheduled to start production in the coming years - 2016, I think). They are one of the countries that manufacturates the F-16 for their own. They design their own frigates, corvettes and submarines - two new stealth technology corvettes are yet on sea trials, if I am not wrong. They made also their own self-propelled artillery guns of 155m and armoured vehicles, and are also building their first attack helicopters, I think. They participate in the F-35 project. Their present frigates maybe aren't the most moderns built in the US, but use many systems of weapons and electronics that are in use by the US navy in ships like the Ticonderoga cruisers... They also have modernized Leopard 2, Leopard 1, M-60s. Notice that Israel, added to the Merkavas own production, the larger number of tanks they have are also M-60s.
Then, it's not all so clear.

Not totally true. Turkey is designing their own tank (the Altay, scheduled to start production in the coming years - 2016, I think). They are one of the countries that manufacturates the F-16 for their own. They design their own frigates, corvettes and submarines - two new stealth technology corvettes are yet on sea trials, if I am not wrong. They made also their own self-propelled artillery guns of 155m and armoured vehicles, and are also building their first attack helicopters, I think. They participate in the F-35 project. Their present frigates maybe aren't the most moderns built in the US, but use many systems of weapons and electronics that are in use by the US navy in ships like the Ticonderoga cruisers... They also have modernized Leopard 2, Leopard 1, M-60s. Notice that Israel, added to the Merkavas own production, the larger number of tanks they have are also M-60s.
Then, it's not all so clear.

You didn't get my point. Turkey lacks the strategic depth in its military industries. Sure they have some capabilities to assemble equipment, but they aren't building most of the parts of the equipment.
Their new Altay tank is the perfect example for this: The two most important parts are manufactured outside Turkey, the engine comes from the MTU Germany and the main gun is the good old 120mm Rheinmetall gun.
There is a good reason why all serious military powers watch very closely that they have total control over the whole manufacturing chain of their military hardware.

You didn't get my point. Turkey lacks the strategic depth in its military industries. Sure they have some capabilities to assemble equipment, but they aren't building most of the parts of the equipment.
Their new Altay tank is the perfect example for this: The two most important parts are manufactured outside Turkey, the engine comes from the MTU Germany and the main gun is the good old 120mm Rheinmetall gun.
There is a good reason why all serious military powers watch very closely that they have total control over the whole manufacturing chain of their military hardware.

and my friend, Turks have "conquered" the Byzantines not because they were Turks, but because that the Byzantine Empire was raped and pillaged by the Catholics. that, too, was a crippled empire.

That was not a conquest. The Byzantines and the Ottomans joined the forces. Sure, there was a civil war, so to speak, in Byzantium to purge the Latins in their own ranks.

They joined forces??? Is that the new history that are taught in turkish schools????

Well, it was nothing like Greece joining EU.

It was a much, much better deal for the Greeks.

But I am not complaining, don't get me wrong. I love my new island. It is not huge, but it was cheap, and now it is mine. I will rename it Friedrichos.

:dubya:

Yeah I've been following the the changes in Turkey and I think good on you guys. The military has been put in its place and now you got a government that looks after Turkey's interests not Israel's or the US's.

They built an empire from Spain to India in about one and half century from the beginning of the Islam expansion... they defeated the spanish visigoths, the bizantines, the persians, they arrived at the gates of Vienna twice, they controlled even your little pseudo-country for many time... they are anything, but just no cowards.

I will not be that sure, because when you look Middle East whole, you will see it is changing together, I bet this is still going according to NWO plans, but how, we are not sure.

:dubya: