Will the real Jesus please stand up?

TW,

I liked your response to Obe...saying "Good point" And
the rest of your reply.

I am curious troubledwaters, I've never known it's origin. What is the
history of the "altar call?" Similar or the same, we saw so many
years on T.V. with Billy Graham, calling people to come forward and
accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord in Savior.

Was the "altar call" Billy Graham's originally? Or someone else and what was the year?

Please share, where is the "altar call" Scripturally?



blessings,


Mary

So, what you are saying is, you are going to save yourself?
Well, good luck with that.

Actually, what I am telling you; is that we didn't come to this planet to get saved.........we came here to learn our lessons!

Learn our lessons, and we get to graduate........don't learn them, and we get to take the class again!

Hey Mary-

It goes back further than Billy Graham:


[One of the most famous 19th century revivalists,] Charles Grandison Finney, popularized the idea of the "altar call" in order to sign up his converts for the abolition movement.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]


Scripturally it seems to be a stretch- but judge for yourself.





/\

You have presented some of the verses I've had on my mind lately. Would you be interested in doing a word study on "Us" and then sharing your findings?

Hello Mary,

To be honest with you, I don't know where that originated from. I think the altar call, was a way for new believers to confess Christ publically. But you can accept Jesus anywhere.

Anyway, that was an excellent question. And I will try to research that out.

Thanks

That's an interesting way of putting it. I find it pretty radical that God spent so much time and effort demonstrating himself in a way in which humans could more easily understand.

Hi TW! Hi Mary!

I've never seen a scriptural reference to the term, "altar call". I think it gets down to the true motives in each person's heart. In other words, has the individual truly humbled himself/herself before God, admitted their sin, and asked for forgiveness through the death of Jesus' shed blood, thereby committing himself/herself to God and thereby receiving adoption into his kingdom. I think it is probabable that there are those who came to true belief in Jesus during an altar call. Do I recommend it as a method of reaching those who have not received Christ? No, but that is strictly an opinion. Without knowing their hearts and the content of their private dialog with God at the time, we can only guess about these things.

While we don't have altar calls in my fellowship, I can't say we hold the patent on how to do "church". I think I've stated elsewhere on this forum that my personal motto has become "Just Jesus...no extras please!" This reminds me that I am so thankful that God left a written record of himself so we check on these sorts of things.

I've never felt the necessity to give an altar call myself. On the other hand liturgical churches have an "altar call" of sorts every week.

As to how to "do" church, scripture is quite silent on liturgy, etc. For me there's not a lot of value in "doing" anything in a formal way... but others feel differently, so we are blessed to have a very wide range of worship opportunities.

I usually come back to this scripture.

Oh, then I completely misread the document you posted. I couldn't find a place to identify my fellowship or a spot to type it out. I thought the page was asking for my email address for communication purposes. What did I do wrong?

I will tell you the first names of some of our pastors, so we will at least be able to know if we go the same fellowship. I would fall over backwards (exxageration of course) if it turns out we go to the same one. For all I know, you could live in my city that is near Columbus!

If it doesn't turn out that we go to the same one, I haven't ruled out the thought of posting the name here, but I would need to think that over more than I have.

Okay, here we go: Dennis, Gary, Jim, Lee

Hi NIP,

I will more than likely take a look at that thread at some point. Apparently we disagree, but even so, I really enjoy reading about individual spiritual journeys. Lately I've been reading about Sir Phydeau's story. He was an athiest for ten years and then believed in God and Jesus. He is now a messianic jewish. He doesn't believe Jesus is God, and I had hoped he would make an appearance on this thread because he thinks the Bible does not support the deity of Christ, and this was one of the main things I thought we might be able to explore further because I know there are many out there who agree with him.

Hi there,

Just for you I am going to make one exception and watch your video later this evening. (My intention for this thread was that it be a discussion format.)

This reminds me that yesterday I said they were all martyered. Would you remind me about his death so I can make sure I correctly reference this in the future? Thanks!

Hi Life and Love! I am glad to have you here.

I completely agree with you, and my comment about not having a patent on how to "do" church was my way of saying that there is no specific format laid out in the Bible.

Thanks also for reminding us about that portion of Acts. I think that referring back to it every so often might be a good way to check up on ourselves.

My thoughts is that He did exist, studied in some eastern religions and possibly even the mystery schools of Egypt.

I see Him as A son of God same as the rest of us and a brother of mine I'd like to drink beers with, often.

I prefer to read His words, not others.

Gospels of Thomas and Q are almost identical, a lot of them are.

So I like to take a reasonable approach, I read His words and some of them really speak to me.

But I study A LOT and most is not modern dogmatic Christian. I'm very happen immersed in Taoism, Zenishness, Kaballah and My current favorite The Western Mysteries.

I do believe the wider back round helps to understanding a Gospel like Thomas and this is of course why I feel the way I do about Jesus; I think He was a brother.

I am an ordained Gnostic Christian Cleric BTW but I hold lots of titles that are not taken so seriously. Just a student of the mysteries.

Good post OP.

Best Wishes

I wanted to let people know that I have come to believe that it is not necessary to know or completely understand that Jesus is God prior to making the decision to receive Christ as one's savior.

I say this because the verses about salvation through Jesus generally refer to believing in Jesus and trusting in his personal sacrifice. There is no stated "requirement" that we comprehend his divinity at the time of our confession of faith.

I do think that those who have not considered Jesus' divinity prior to their authentic "conversion" (I hate that word. Who has a better one?) are indwelled by the Holy Spirit (just like those who believes that Jesus is God from the get go), who leads us to truth, and in this case, to deeper and deeper understanding of the nature of Jesus' divinity.

As a matter fact, being limited in the human sense, there is not a chance that we can completely grasp it. I can look back a year ago, and honestly say that Jesus' divinity is clearer to me now, and if I go back five or even ten years, the difference in my understanding now versus then is even greater. I guess what I am saying is that understanding Jesus' divinity is more of an evolution than a revolution. Who among us would be saved if it was required that we completely get it prior to coming to faith?

Just use the word as shorthand :)

What changes us isn't us but the love of the Father entering into us to transform us from the inside out. (cf Rom 12:2).

Most of the time Jesus didn't say believe in Him or worship Him but to follow Him. In that following comes the deeper understanding of which OP speaks.

Hi! I hope you come back because I have a question for you that I was actually thinking about yesterday.

My thought on the Gospel of Thomas is that it is an interesting work that does not involve authentic apostolic authorship. What is your view on this, and do you think apostolic authorship is important? This is not meant to be an argument, by the way...I am almost always very curious about what people believe, and I must admit that you are the only Gnostic Christian I've encountered (or who has put it quite the way you did).

Some people don't believe the Bible supports the concept of the divinity of Jesus. I have a couple of things I need to do now, but in the meantime, I would like to know if anyone wants to tackle this topic this evening.

Or if there is something else on your mind, please let me know!

lol

Just drove past there on the way back from Polaris to home (New Albany)

Some very, VERY close friends go there and it is difficult to show up incognito. (but have show up at one of their 'groups')

Not to mention- these two threads don't necessarily jive with what Dennis has written...


Thread: Pres. C. Arthur served for 42 mo. as predicted by REVELATION! Both he and OBAMA were British citizens at birth! (Guess what’s next)

Thread: The sun is reacting to forces that can’t be seen. As requested, we will now “show” them to you and explain NIBIRU, PLANET X, and WORMWOOD.





:)

Usually the truth is hidden in plain sight.





++

I guess I don't like the word, "conversion", because it has come to have such a negative connotation in the world, and I don't want people to mistake what I mean when I use that word with the monster it has become. I have a whole list of words and phrases I avoid because of this very phenomenom.

For instance, if you identify yourself as a "born again" Christian, you might as well say "I'm one of those wacky over zealous Christians, and every day I arrange my alphabet soup to say "Jesus is Lord", and I'm giving you Bible for your birthday whether you want it or not". Obviously, I am making this up as I go!

I've actually shared the Nicodemus passage with a few people when I felt the timing was right and they were ready to hear it and showed an interest.

Thanks for all your input on this thread, Live and Love!

Anonymous Coward 1323894
Xisuthros Rex
I find both of your posts interesting, and thought provoking for the things mentioned that are my first time hearing "on the outside". I see One thought, yet there are two posts/posters that seem to try to separate from each other.

This is most enjoyable considering the core truth is all things have One source of creation and the various creations disagree as if there is a hierarchy of truth.

Truth is.

Could it be that both are true?
Could it be that both truths are from the same Source.
Truth is stranger than fiction.

Let me put it this way, the diversity of life on this planet. If one was not here, they'd think there were only humans (two legs, two eyes, one mouth, a body); and would think that's the only truth, but by being here there are a vast quantity of animals that have two legs, two eyes, one mouth, a body from insect to mammal.

So what I see posted is just as diverse but seems to be part of the same 'body' of evidence, so to speak.

I'm glad I am viewing this thread.

Both of you know, All is equal. All is One. It's interesting observing the conflict you have with yourSelf.

Temet Nosce

Light and Love.

We certainly have a lot of church "buzz words" that have zero meaning to any but the already convinced. Even the label "Christian" has liabilities, and I will sometimes say I'm a Christ-follower or follower of Jesus instead.

Thinking back over my recent past, I can't recall any time I've quoted scripture or doctrinal positions to a seeker. Usually, I talk to them using examples from the relationship we've established. If the example of my own life is void of anything interesting spiritually, nothing else is going to matter.

Thanks for your diligent work in keeping this thread moving, OP!

I don't always agree with his take on prophecy either. That being said, when our pasters teach their end time views, they typically state that there are other views out there, and that the primary focus should continue to be ready no matter how it all goes down.

You would not ever catch them suggesting that there might be some other path to God other than receiving the gift of God's grace that is available through the sacrificial death of Jesus.

That is admirable but the Bible is prophecy.


Did he explain why his books aren't free?




.)

Hi Jenann,

I think it all happened so long ago and what we have is very little unfortunately and much of that second or third hand some of it written even centuries later.

Maybe it's best to take it all with a grain of salt. Make what we can out of it but be honest and trust our own instincts as well. A lot of stuff really is just made up though maybe some of those people were High on Holy Spirit no doubt.

I'm sure you are quite familiar with Holy Spirit :)

But I also feel others of differing faiths can feel that same love from God whatever they may call it, for example, Prana, Light or just plain Gods love. I feel that's pretty universal.

You've triggered that happy lovely light in me this evening, when we think about God, it just happens, its wonderful! I'm grinning ear to ear :)

We can all share in that! at least the nice people :)

Thank You

Last Edited by Frater Deplorable on 09/20/2011 08:59 PM

Wow, then I sound like him every day.
I say I AM fine. I AM hungry. I AM tired, and more I AMs. If a cop stops me and asks me what's my name, I'll even tell him "I AM that I AM" for the sake of his video recording of the stop as I exercise my rights.

I AM bad and I AM good. I AM excited to see your post that answers/discusses so much.