GOVERNMENT DEBUNKING OF 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORIES IS JUST MORE MISINFORMATION IN PLAIN SIGHT | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 59724 United States 01/05/2006 11:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I agree, enough with the bizarre conspiracy theories. The craziest one I heard so far is that 19 arabs, 6 or more of whom are still alive BTW, brought down all those buildings with jets themselves because they "hate our freedoms". Is that some crazy shit or what? I's really like to know what freedoms I have anyway. I'm not thrown in jail for not committing any crimes? That's freedom? If I pay all the required fees, I can work to make enough money to feed myself and keep a roof over my head, and stay drunk, but everything else is VERBOTEN upon pain of jail or DEATH even, if some "public servant" thinks I look funny? That's freedom? What a joke. We may be spreading things in other countries, but it SURE as fuck ain't freedom and we don't have any here either. |
9// truth seeker (OP) User ID: 60102 United Kingdom 01/05/2006 11:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 11:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 59724 ... one of the freedoms yous have ( i take it you'll prefer "yous" since your post says "Is" as in "Is like to know..." )is the freedom to bitch and whine on a message board like this one. In China, for instance, you could not do this. You have the freedom to worship as you wish, or not at all. in the Middle East that would be a serious problem. You can live on a comune, or go to business school, run for office or live in the woods. Virtually ANYTHING you want ( except drive on the left, not pay taxes and live forever ) you are also free to beleive the horse-hockey that you apparently do. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 11:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 43368 United States 01/05/2006 11:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 18710 United States 01/05/2006 12:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 12:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 59724 United States 01/05/2006 12:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "59724 ... one of the freedoms yous have ( i take it you'll prefer "yous" since your post says "Is" as in "Is like to know..." )is the freedom to bitch and whine on a message board like this one." Oh, yeah! I can't be killed LEGALLY yet for just posting on the internet, I MUST BE free! I can't be LEGALLY killed. YET. I don't think it's that far off, with Mr Central America Death Squad John Negroponte running our "national security" as the "Intelligence Czar". Who'da ever thunk we'd have CZARS in the Good Old USA? Go ahead and make fun of any typos now, fucktard. You haven't got anything else. For the poster asking about the Freedom Hating Arabs that lived through 911 evidently, check this link out: The BBC is good enough to be a valid source, yes? Note the date of the article. We've know almost since Sept 11, 2001 that the Official Conspiracy Theory(tm) was a bold faced fucking lie. [link to news.bbc.co.uk] Sunday, 23 September, 2001, 12:30 GMT 13:30 UK Hijack 'suspects' alive and well Waleed Al Shehri left the US a year ago, he says Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well. The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt. Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September. His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world. Hijacking suspects Flight 175: Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi Flight 11: Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz Alomari and Satam Al Suqami Flight 77: Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Hani Hanjour Flight 93: Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco. He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports. He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring. But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco. Mistaken identity Abdulaziz Al Omari, another of the Flight 11 hijack suspects, has also been quoted in Arab news reports. Abdelaziz Al Omari 'lost his passport in Denver' He says he is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and that he lost his passport while studying in Denver. Another man with exactly the same name surfaced on the pages of the English-language Arab News. The second Abdulaziz Al Omari is a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines, the report says. Meanwhile, Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Alghamdi. Khalid Al-Midhar may also be alive He was listed by the FBI as a hijacker in the United flight that crashed in Pennsylvania. And there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive. FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt. Rebuilding Uneasy peace Afghan army test Looking ahead Aid shortfall Unfulfilled dreams Political uncertainty Karzai's shaky rule Al-Qaeda threat? Qadir's assassination Loya jirga assessed Profiles Hamid Karzai Ex-king's dilemmas Masood: Slain hero Warlord Ismail Khan Gulbuddin Hekmatyar Issues Wedding bomb error Warlords re-emerge Threats to aid agencies Refugee return halted FACT FILE Afghan powerbrokers IN DEPTH War on al-Qaeda FORUM Hamid Karzai answered your questions TALKING POINT Have promises been kept? See also: 21 Sep 01 | Americas FBI probes hijackers' identities 18 Sep 01 | Americas FBI probes 'attempted fifth hijack' 15 Sep 01 | Americas Worldwide hunt for hijack plotters 15 Sep 01 | Europe Europe hunts for US clues 14 Sep 01 | Americas Nineteen hijack suspects named 13 Sep 01 | Americas Evidence trails lead to Florida 14 Sep 01 | Science/Nature FBI probes ISPs for clues 20 Sep 01 | Americas The trail to Bin Laden Internet links: Federal Bureau of Investigation Interpol The White House The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet sites Top Middle East stories now: US draws up second Iraq resolution Mid-East peace moves urged Saudis launch first al-Qaeda trial Palestinian gas mask appeal dismissed Kuwait protests over Iraq statement Polio campaign launched in Iraq Iran academic sent back to death court Jerusalem gets ultra-Orthodox mayor Links to more Middle East stories are at the foot of the page. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 52612 Netherlands 01/05/2006 12:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 12:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
john paul User ID: 2715 United States 01/05/2006 12:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 12:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It is vital to understand history so that we know where we are and where we are going. what works and what doesn't. as per "living hijackers" how about DER SPIEGEL ... no administration tool there ... and in 2003 after two years to get to the facts... "The manner in which banal circumstances mutate into shadowy mysteries under such conditions is evident in an odd story that caused Mzoudi's attorney Rosenthal to engage in some speculation in court: the news that at least six of the alleged hijackers were supposedly alive and their voices were being broadcast live through various media outlets several days after the attacks. On September 12th, a seventh man supposedly contacted his father. His name was Mohammed Atta. Atta Senior, a Cairo attorney, hasn't heard anything from his son since then, and is convinced that he has been murdered by US killers. Whether or not it includes Atta, to self-proclaimed alternative investigators the zombie terrorist theory serves as key evidence of shady machinations on the part of US authorities. "This," say Bröckers and his co-author Andreas Hauß in what the blurb on the jacket calls a "meticulously" researched book, "has ... far-reaching consequences for the entire case, because it makes it entirely unclear as to who actually piloted the aircraft." Just how shaky this line of argumentation is becomes evident in a statement just three lines farther down the page. "We," write the authors, "did not contact and personally interview them, nor have they been interviewed by anyone else recently." The authors continue to state that it is quite possible that the undead are now in fact dead. In the authors' opinions, if these men are alive, it must be perfectly understandable that someone who "is being accused of several thousand acts of murder" is likely to be in hiding "and unavailable for interviews." Bröckers and Hauß spend fifteen pages making their version of a tale of suicide assassins seem plausible. Bülow does the same thing in five pages. However, a few telephone calls are all it takes to destroy their zombie theories. What these investigative journalists should have done was to spend a little time listening to those whom they cite as "reputable" sources for their arguments. Take the BBC, for example, which did in fact report, on September 23, 2001, that some of the alleged terrorists were alive and healthy and had protested their being named as assassins. But there is one wrinkle. The BBC journalist responsible for the story only recalls this supposed sensation after having been told the date on which the story aired. "No, we did not have any videotape or photographs of the individuals in question at that time," he says, and tells us that the report was based on articles in Arab newspapers, such as the Arab News, an English-language Saudi newspaper. The operator at the call center has the number for the Arab News on speed dial. We make a call to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. A few seconds later, Managing Editor John Bradley is on the line. When we tell Bradley our story, he snorts and says: "That's ridiculous! People here stopped talking about that a long time ago." Bradley tells us that at the time his reporters did not speak directly with the so-called "survivors," but instead combined reports from other Arab papers. These reports, says Bradley, appeared at a time when the only public information about the attackers was a list of names that had been published by the FBI on September 14th. The FBI did not release photographs until four days after the cited reports, on September 27th. The photographs quickly resolved the nonsense about surviving terrorists. According to Bradley, "all of this is attributable to the chaos that prevailed during the first few days following the attack. What we're dealing with are coincidentally identical names." In Saudi Arabia, says Bradley, the names of two of the allegedly surviving attackers, Said al-Ghamdi and Walid al-Shari, are "as common as John Smith in the United States or Great Britain." The final explanation is provided by the newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat, one of the sources of Arab News, which in turn serves as a source to the BBC. Mohammed Samman is the name of the reporter who interviewed a man named Said al-Ghamdi in Tunis, only to find that al-Ghamdi was quite horrified to discover his name on the FBI list of assassins. Samman remembers his big story well. "That was a wonderful story," he says. And that's all it was. It had nothing to do with the version made up of Bröckers' and Bülow's combined fantasies. "The problem," says Samman, "was that after the first FBI list had been published, CNN released a photo of the pilot Said al-Ghamdi that had been obtained from the files of those Saudi pilots who had at some point received official flight training in the United States." After Samman's story was reported by the news agencies, he was contacted by CNN. "I gave them Ghamdi's telephone number. The CNN people talked to the pilot and apologized profusely. The whole thing was quite obviously a mix-up. The Ghamdi family is one of the largest families in Saudi Arabia, and there are thousands of men named Said al-Ghamdi." When we ask Samman to take another look at the FBI's list of photographs, he is more than happy to oblige, and tells us: "The Ghamdi on the photo is not the pilot with whom I spoke." The investigative journalists should have been able to figure out just how obvious the solution to this puzzle was. They all write that a man named Abd al-Asis al-Umari had been named as a perpetrator by the FBI, and that there are apparently many individuals with this name. Bröckers and Hauß even noticed that the FBI had initially released an incorrect first name to the press. All of this certainly suggests that there was a mix-up, but it's also something that the conspiracy theorists apparently did not consider plausible. In the case of the supposedly surviving terrorist Walid al-Shari, the truth is even more obvious. At least Bülow had the opportunity to avoid making this mistake. In his book, he writes that the alleged assassin Shari "lives in Casablanca and works as a pilot, according to information provided by the airline Royal Air Maroc." If Bülow had inquired with the airline, he would have discovered that the name of the pilot who lives in Casablanca is Walid al-Shri and not, like that of the assassin, Walid al-Shari. This minor detail makes a big difference, namely the difference between a dead terrorist and a living innocent man. But to conspiracy theorists, discovering the truth is like solving a crossword puzzle for children: What's a four-letter word for a domesticated animal? Hrse. Whatever doesn't fit is made to fit. And whatever fits is included without scrutiny. "The uncritical acceptance of any argument that suggests a conspiracy" is one of the cornerstones of all conspiracy theories, writes conservative US historian Daniel Pipes. "The conspiracy theorist starts with the conclusion and then looks for reasons to rule everything out that doesn't fit." If you happen to be holding a hammer, you're probably more likely to see nails everywhere. " |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 12:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | so .. .the end result of this cut and paste is that some egyptian had with a phony tenn. drivers lic. had a pass to the wtc for 9/5. two possibilities ... one...he ( and maybe his friends who also have bogus tenn driver's lic. are involved. fine, nothing in that to contradict the official story. maybe it even adds to it. two .... an egyptian has a phony tenn driver's lic. so do most cabbies in nyc, and lots of plumbers, and electricians and painters. so what? illegal immegrants have bogus id. why is that news? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 59724 United States 01/05/2006 12:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "why are you people so worried about a conspiracy about 9/11..it happened,get a life and get over it." Because we have already attacked two countries and on a daily basis are talkming about attacking a 3rd, all using 911 as the reason for it. If that really didn't occur to you already, you might be a moron. Scratch that, you ARE a moron. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 59724 United States 01/05/2006 12:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | two .... an egyptian has a phony tenn driver's lic. so do most cabbies in nyc, and lots of plumbers, and electricians and painters. so what? illegal immegrants have bogus id. why is that news?" So the end result is that you don't want to look at any evidence, you don't want to think, you just want to suck at the TV TEAT and think everything is peachy. Fine. Fuck off then. Quit calling us names and disrupting us for thinking otherwise. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 12:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | if you WERE THINKING i would not have a problem. but you are not. if i take everything you say as gospel truth what then .... either they guy is involved with the hijackers or he isn't. only two possibilities. if he is involved, how does that alter the official story except to ADD some additional detail. if he is not involved, then so what? lots of dust raised, but nothing there. |
9/11 truth seeker (OP) User ID: 60102 United Kingdom 01/05/2006 01:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 5855: "Whatever doesn't fit is made to fit. And whatever fits is included without scrutiny. "The uncritical acceptance of any argument that suggests a conspiracy" is one of the cornerstones of all conspiracy theories, writes conservative US historian Daniel Pipes. "The conspiracy theorist starts with the conclusion and then looks for reasons to rule everything out that doesn't fit." If you happen to be holding a hammer, you're probably more likely to see nails everywhere. " Well, that makes the 9/11 Commission just about the greatest conspiracy theorists who ever lived! They started with the 19 hijackers (photographs miraculously supplied by the FBI within a few hours even though the men were never listed on any Airline manifest) - an incredibly fast piece of detection! - and ignored all the evidence that pointed AWAY from these men. Instead, they fitted everything to this theory and suppressed public viewing of all evidence (such as the CCTV video tapes confiscated from the nearby hotels, etc) that would have clearly identified what kind of plane hit the Pentagon. The government had a ready made bunch of patsies and looked around (or rather had already manufactured) evidence that would make the 19 Arabs look guilty. Only, more and more we learn about these men, less gulity they appear. Yes, 5855, you really shot yourself in the foot. |
Soothsayer
User ID: 60187 United States 01/05/2006 01:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 01:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | wow. what circular reasoning. u must be dizzy. "never on any airline manifest" if that were true there WOULD be a conspiracy. if they were on the aircraft ( and not stowaways ) they were on the manifest/passenger list. you have to give a name to buy a ticket, no? "the CCTV from hotels would show what kind of plane hit the Pentagon" why do you think the plane would even be on the tape. do you think the hotel security cameras are trained on the sky, or on the entrance and maybe the back door and parking lot. see, you illustrate the Pipes theory exactly. you have these memes you have picked up and regurgitate them without the slightest thought. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 01:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 01:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60191 United States 01/05/2006 01:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 283 United States 01/05/2006 01:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If it weren't for the macabre nature of their delusions, the "President Bush had the World Trade Center blown up" psychos would be almost as funny as the chemazoids. (I'm sure there's a great deal of overlap between the two groups of woo-woos.) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 60191 United States 01/05/2006 01:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to disinfowars.com] check that site |
Soothsayer
User ID: 60187 United States 01/05/2006 01:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 283 United States 01/05/2006 01:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
9/11 truth seeker (OP) User ID: 60102 United Kingdom 01/05/2006 01:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well, 5855, if the CCTV footage did not show anything significant, why were the FBI so quick to confiscate it and why have they never returned the tapes to their owners or released them to discredit conspiracy theorists? Again, you have shot yourself in the feet - raising issues whose logic works against your position. |
Soothsayer
User ID: 60187 United States 01/05/2006 01:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Unlike AC 283 (formerly known as Dr. P who no longer logs in because everyone despises him), I do not live in my own fantasy world. Anyone who still believes the official 9/11 theory is part of the real lunatic fringe. COGITO, ERGO, SUM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5855 United States 01/05/2006 01:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 59724 United States 01/05/2006 01:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Every day I see one of you fucktard's "The Official 911 Conspriracy Theory is COrrect!" threads and I don't feel the least bit inclined to go in and shit on your threads, yet you all are seemingly incapable of showing us the same respect. Why is that? Could it be because the truth is something you don't particularly care for? |