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M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?

 
an nonymous
User ID: 62141
United States
01/11/2006 08:24 PM
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M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
The super M1 Abrams was built and tested during Desert Storm and is supposed to be the biggest, baddest tank in military warfare.

"The coolest thing about the M1's weaponry is its advanced fire control system. An array of sensors constantly monitors the tank's tilt, the turret's motion and any gusts of wind, and a computer adjusts the gun accordingly to keep it aimed at its target. With this system, the M1 can take out other tanks while it's on the move. Less sophisticated tanks have to come to a full stop to hit targets reliably."

No link, but I understand that some unknown defensive weapon is shooting a pinhole size hole into the Abrams which sets off the hallon (sp) and shuts down the whole system, keeping the oxygen inside the tank from exploding and killing the crew.

US military engineers have not figured out what is making the pinhole.

Lasers, maybe? Anyone have ideas?
an nonymous (OP)
User ID: 62141
United States
01/11/2006 08:56 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
Agreed, but what are the factors?
Bullshit!

User ID: 61000
United States
01/11/2006 09:00 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
Get your facts straight.

"The super M1 Abrams was built and tested during Desert Storm and is supposed to be the biggest, baddest tank in military warfare."

The M1 was designed in the 1970's and first deployed in Europe in the early 1980's. It was designed to try and counter the Russian tank threat. It was first battle tested in Desert Storm where it kicked ASS on anything else.

No link, but I understand that some unknown defensive weapon is shooting a pinhole size hole into the Abrams which sets off the hallon (sp) and shuts down the whole system, keeping the oxygen inside the tank from exploding and killing the crew.

Second, there is no laser on the earth at this point that could penetrate a couple feet of armor, mostly made up from depleted uranium. Especially one that could be portable.

Third, oxygen does not explode. The interior compartment contains normal air anyway.

You don't know much about weapons, do you?
andy thomas
User ID: 62157
United States
01/11/2006 09:08 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
was there an article in the online army times about an m1 tank which was taken out by some kind of 'rail gun?'

a tiny hole in the tank and a little projectile which bounced around all over the crew compartment... luckily none of the crew were injured...

it put the tank out of commission if memory serves...

i'm not sure though that there has been another intance of this...

the army times story was back in probably april or may of 2003...
an nonymou (OP)
User ID: 62141
United States
01/11/2006 09:09 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
It is true that I know nothing about weapons, but I've been sitting around listening to chatter about the holes in the Abrams that no one seems to know what kind of defensive weapon is making the hole.

Whatever it is, it pierces the Abrams armour, depleted uranium and all.

The hallon (sp) is some kind of agent which is automatically dispursed to keep the air(oxygen) in the tank supporting the crew, but the hallon necessarily shuts down the mechanisms and the Abrams is left dysfunctional.

If you don't have the tanks, you don't have ground support for operations. Do you?

I don't know and I'm just asking.
hoot no more
User ID: 62159
United States
01/11/2006 09:13 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
Captured 50 cal saboted DU rounds, idiots! Doesn't know it is not supposed to be used against "our" guys. A hundred and fifty grains of that shit moving at 6000 feet for second and your expensive tank is a pile of scrap.
hoot no more
User ID: 62159
United States
01/11/2006 09:14 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
useless radioactive scrap in the bargain
andy thomas
User ID: 62157
United States
01/11/2006 09:16 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
so has this happened more than once to an american tank?

i haven't heard... but that it happened even once.. you know someone has a very effective antitank weapon out there...
andy thomas
User ID: 62157
United States
01/11/2006 09:17 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
or at least that they're working on such a thing and had what appears to have been a succesful field trial...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 62161
United States
01/11/2006 09:19 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
"the army times story was back in probably april or may of 2003..."

the public was shown tv coverage of tanks rolling along the desert during the Iraqi invasion. When was that? About April 2003? Have we seen tanks in use since that time?
hoot no more
User ID: 62159
United States
01/11/2006 09:20 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
This DU is takeing us back to WWI conditions: where a well placed round from a heavy shoulder weapon can take out the most heavily armored tank at close range.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 62161
United States
01/11/2006 09:22 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
I've heard that lots more than one tank has been hit with the unknown. Maybe 28, but don't known and don't have a link.
XXX
User ID: 197
United States
01/11/2006 09:24 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
Not too many tanks deployed in Iraq right now. They aren't that efective against snipers and bombers especially in an urban environment. They are also vulnerable to large mine bombs since they have little protection undermeath.
hoot no more
User ID: 62159
United States
01/11/2006 09:25 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
I have seen resistance footage of the iraqis machineing the projectiles from unexploded DU rounds so that it can be used in their caliber weapons; and of course there are plenty of 50cals in any army as those have been in use by the scores of millions since WWI
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 127
United States
01/11/2006 09:27 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
As far as I know the pinhole in the Abrams only happened once when one hit an IED and seems to have been a total fluke.
If anyone has any proof it has happen more than once I'd like to see it because I looked and couldn't find anything but the one instance.
XXX
User ID: 197
United States
01/11/2006 09:29 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
can projectiles machined from DU penetrate our infantry's body armor? I doubt they can penetrate titanium discs but what about ceramic armor?
JOSHUA

User ID: 62156
United States
01/11/2006 09:29 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
Actually Europe, has some kick ass tanks that are alot like the Abrams. Russia will always be a big contestant in technoledgy. Lets not forget russia's new stealth fighter. Are we lagging? Probably not. They have some new toys comming this year.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 62161
United States
01/11/2006 09:34 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
"ceramic armor"

the abrams has ceramics in its armour.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 127
United States
01/11/2006 09:41 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
<<"ceramic armor"

the abrams has ceramics in its armour.>>
I think your thinking about the British Challenger 2 main battle tank.
It has the ceramic Chobham Armor which is far superior to any armor out there.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 62195
United States
01/11/2006 11:54 PM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
Kind of a penny ante add here but Halon removes the burnable air in the environment it is released in. Like in a computer room when it goes off things fly everywhere from the pressure of the release. Prior to it going off everybody has to get out as soon as possible because along with the burnable parts of the air go the breathable parts of the air. Basically it removes the oxygen. After a few minutes you can re-enter the room. If you try to flick your bic it burns really badly, yellow flame, and black smoke.

I don't have the link but it has happened before not to long after we started this crap. Possibly after Bush said it was over. I believe it burnt a hole through one side and may have clipped one of the soldiers inside sealing the wound as it went through (caterizing (sp?)) It finally emmbedded itself in the other side of the tank. It seems that the hole was about the size of a pencil. When they examined the hole where the projectile came to rest it was still molten.

Not much but is all I know about the subject.
an nonymous
User ID: 62209
United States
01/12/2006 01:01 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
I am OP and thanks for the explanation on the Halon, which I did not know how to explain. I'm more familar with its use in boats and the fact that when it gets released it shuts down everything as a protective measure.
an nonymous
User ID: 62209
United States
01/12/2006 01:12 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
The Abrams armous is supposed to be a grade up from the British armour. This description is from the "howstuffworks" website:

"The M1 is mainly composed of sturdy rolled homogeneous armor (RHA) steel plates, sandwiched around thicker protective material.

The core armor is a variation on the British Chobham armor -- an arrangement of metal plates, ceramic blocks and open space. HEAT and Sabot rounds may make it through the outer layer of the armor, but they won't make it all the way into the crew compartment. The ceramic material can absorb a lot of heat, as well as heavy physical blows. The rest of the hot gases or metal pieces spread out in the empty air pockets.

Updated M1 tanks have extra layers of steel and depleted uranium that supplement the Chobham-style armor. This combination will hold up to any tank round and most missiles (the powerful Hellfire missile is a notable exception). "


No one is suggesting that it is the Hellfire missile which makes the pinhole in the tank armour.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 62111
United States
01/12/2006 01:19 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
This happen in the first month the tank was there, right after the 'micro' test. Except they have the other wep and it isn't a projectile..
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 62111
United States
01/12/2006 01:20 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
I meant to say--

This happen to 'a' tank the first month the armies were in Iraq. Unsure how many times it has happen though.
Dr Dre
User ID: 5755
United Kingdom
01/12/2006 01:23 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
M1A2?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20359
United States
01/12/2006 01:39 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
all tanks are obsolete. what does a tank do? it kills people! therefore, obsolete
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 62281
United States
01/12/2006 08:11 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
Tanks may be obsolete but the US government allowed British to offload their big tanks on US soil and do a practice run in North Carolina. All since the Iraq invasion.

If there is a defensive weapon, I hope the US military figures it out so we have something to use on tanks rolling around North Carolina.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 127
United States
01/12/2006 08:18 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
62281 the Royal Air Force and army has been practicing in the deserts of the south west for decades and the Navy has had a constant sub presence in San Diego for Tomahawk missile testing and maintainence.
AC 2741

User ID: 579
United Kingdom
01/12/2006 08:45 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
this is the culprit for the M1 kills

[link to www.military.com]


it's just got a newer projectile which makes those small holes.

And tanks are useless in cities, read your WW2 history.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 15610
United States
01/12/2006 08:52 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
Just a guess, halon is used mainly for fire supression, usually compressed in taks and released in the event of a fire. If a projectile pierced the armor and hit any part of the halon system it would release the gas and it's very likely that there is a safeguard that disables the engine in the event of halon system activation. Whether or not this is being done intentionally is another thing.
stgeorge
User ID: 60280
Canada
01/12/2006 09:02 AM
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Re: M 1 Abrams Tank now Obsolete?
They are adding anti-RPG shields to the Abrams and other vehicles.What does this tell you?
I thought it was invulnerable,but I heard of at least one M1 being knocked out by an RPG.





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