Attention All Watchers for The Rapture of the Church??

One of the problems with the "Pre-Trib" position is that there is no 7 year Tribulation Period defined as such in Scripture.

It is a man-made addition to Scripture....and should not be used.


All that you have that describes the final 7 years is Daniel's 70th week......and there is no evidence the God's wrath must begin prior to Daniel's 70th week.


The elites will be hiding in fear in caves during the 6th Seal......and will declare that God's wrath (7th Seal) is about to begin.


The 144,000 of Israel are not sealed from harm prior to the First Seal of Revelation.......but just prior to the 7th Seal. Christians will be caught up by angels at this time as well.


While Christ opens all 7 Seals........the first 5 Seals continue as satan's wrath (and those who are under his influence). This has been going on since biblical times and continues even today in many parts of the world.

Near the end (perhaps even already)......satan and his angels will be kicked out of heaven full of wrath.....for they know that their time is short.


The 6th Seal is one of transition.


And the 7th Seal is God's wrath.


The above is known as the Pre-Wrath Position.

and you already accepted the antichrist mark, its your social security number which is entered into the beast computer and already its getting harder to use CASH is it not? People god gave you thinking mind, and because many of you prefer fairy tales to truth, the lessons will be painful. There will be much wailing and tears and you how have chosen stories over facts will need an awful lot of tissue.

The above: The Pre-Wrath Position

The global food shortage....destruction of the worldwide fiat currency system......and all the other nasty things in the works to usher in chaos and kill people.......are not God's wrath......but satan's wrath (and those under his influence).


The above are all man-made scenarios in the making.....by evil people.......to take over the world.


Satan cannot duplicate God's wrath. God's wrath is very distinct. Recall how the magician's could not duplicate God's works in Egypt......nor stop His judgements.


The 7th Seal trumpet and bowl judgements are very distinct in nature.......and cannot be duplicated by satan or man.


7th Seal......God's wrath.

I believe the SUN to be the single unifying force that interconnects and bridges together various religious-based ideology and ancient prophecies from our past. The sun is the life-force of our Earth and all of it's inhabitants. It is also the celestial mechanism for the 'changes' that our Earth undergoes, which includes changes in human consciousness. My research and exploration into end times prophecies led me to the realization that despite surface level variations in the details, these prophecies were remarkably similar in their foretelling of a coming 'event' that would impact mankind.

So I asked myself, how can these cultures separated by distance and by time, who all worship different Gods & deities, all share a common knowledge of a future age or period of time that mankind would come to experience? How can they appear so distinct and different on the surface level, but arrive at the same conclusion? Additionally, I have a very analytical mind. I also needed to be able to conceptualize the HOW and WHY things could come to be, not just have blind faith in a stated outcome.

When I seriously explored these questions I was able to arrive at the conclusion that the reason these past cultures had knowledge of future 'events' and 'ages' that mankind would experience, was because these 'changes' had to be cyclical in nature and thus, predictable. Cycles play a fundamental role in our Universe and all life forces. When I began to search for a mechanism that would explain the HOW & WHY with regards to the prophecized events, it become increasingly evident that our sun and other celestial bodies/forces would serve as the catalyst for such changes. By bridging prophecy with science, metaphysics, and spirituality, the dots all began to connect for me. My intuition had always told me there was substance behind these 'end times' prophecies, but it wasn't until I was able to perceive the interconnectedness of the various prophecies as well as gain and understanding of the how & the why, that I really became 'sold' on this subject matter.

Now I know on the surface level my perspective is not going to sit well with any individual who has adopted a personified conceptualization of 'God' and believes that these events need no observable causal mechanism within our environment. However, if the Creator is perceived to be responsible for all of creation, then these cycles and cosmic forces that I believe will serve as the mechanism for these 'events' as well as our conscious evolution can be conceived as being divine in nature and if one so chooses to utilize this context, the 'will of God'.

Here's an interesting video:
[link to www.youtube.com]

Video Description:
It is sometimes forgotten that the early Christians associated Jesus with the Sun. Among the church fathers, Cyprian speaks of Christ as Sol Verus, the "true sun," and Ambrose names him Sol Novus Noster, "our new sun". An interesting fact revealed in the old Roman calendars is that on the 25th of December each year they commemorated the new birth of Sol Invictus, the "unconquered sun." These early Christians used many hymns addressed to the Christ-Sun or to the Christos-Spirit, or to the Logos or Word. These terms were taken from the ancient Greek Mysteries; and the composition of these hymns, and the words could easily be construed as hymns to the sun. Which indeed was exactly what they were.

Ac 220, I believe that same position, but I describe my position as Pre-Trib/6thseal rapture/Beginning 70thweek.

Like you, I think the 1st 5 seals were opened by Jesus when he entered heaven after his resurrection as the victorious Lamb and which John was priviledged to see.

However, unlike the Pre-wrath position I believe that the first 5 seals are "birth pangs", not "Satan's wrath". Satan's wrath doesn't begin until he is thrown down to earth in Rev.12 and inhabits the anti-christ and kills jews and christians.

I believe as you do that we are on the precipice of the 6th seal. When the full # of church-age martyrs are killed(Rev.6:10-11) and the full # of gentiles are saved(Rom.11:25), then Jesus will open the 6th seal and the body of Christ/bride will be snatched out in the nick of time and arrive in heaven with our new immortal bodies.(Rev.7:9-17)

The US is not Babylon. You are correct.

If the 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 bowls do not happen consecutively, the scriptures will be broken.

If you are still with me, then you need to understand the 4th seal will happen on schedule right after the third seal.

At the end of the 3rd seal people will be working a day for a loaf of bread. When that happens (it is slowly progressing NOW) then the 4th seal will come.

My SOLE PURPOSE on this board is to warn people who live in that 1/4 part of the world to repent NOW. If you are not marked on your forehead BEFORE the Angel of Death is released you WILL go to Hades/Hell PERIOD.

Uncle

PS: As far a judgement goes:

There was/is/will be only ONE judgement from the Throne of Heaven:

John 3:19

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

The Buddhist, Hindus, Muslims,etc. have not be given the "light" so they cannot be judged at this time. They will be given the light during the "5th" seal. And judged during the trumpets.

North America is predominately Christian, and has rejected the light that was given to them and spit on their God. So they will be judged first in the 4th seal.

Do not think I am being smug, the country I reside in now is worse than the USA by far, but they have an excuse being 2% Christian. They have been blinded by the whore of Babylon and do not know any better.

That will change after the Lord spits the Church of Laodecia out of His mouth in the 4th seal, and the remaining Churches repent and work massive miracles during the 5th seal. All gentiles will be given the light during the 5th seal. Most will reject it and then we cycle back to John 3:19 and have the 7 trumpets.

Also I have no GLEE in this. Prophecy is a bitter pill. It is a curse on the prophet. Most of my family and friends do not believe and will end up in Hell. I wish I was there with you, but for some reason I was chosen to go to Asia and have a small part in the 5th seal.

Do not hate me, or our country. Our nation's end was written down over 1900 years ago in the Book of Revelation. It was judged before it was formed!
We are all just little sheep and would not be saved except for the Grace of God. My message has 2 parts to it. A call to repentance for the lost and great joy for my Western brothers because now they know "about" when they will be glorified and where in the Bible to look for it. AMEN.

Seal are not instant, they take years to complete. The Third seal is in PROGRESS now and will be completed when people are working a day for a loaf of bread.

Then the 4th seal comes:

Revelation 6:7-8
King James Version (KJV)
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Note the Angel of Death comes first and is followed by Hell. The angel of Death is the end-time event that many evangelicals have labeled the pre-tribulation rapture. It will come after the global 7 year famine is completed and a day's pay will be a quart of wheat(load of bread).
Uncle

236.....yes I agree.....not instant.



The 7 Seals of Revelation do not have to be squished into the 7 years of Daniel's 70th week.


The first and second Seals are somewhat general in nature.......and could have been broken many years ago.


The 3rd Seal however is very specific in nature......and would be easy to identify.

Hi Anhedonic,

That was a great video - my fav. beatles song! Your leap from the creator being divine and therefore his mechanisms ie: the Sun and solar system therefore being divine doesn't fly though. You make really accurate points about the correlation of the sun with Jesus throughout history. But correlation doesn't mean equivalency. Yes, the Bible says that Jesus will be our new sun during his/our millenial reign on earth. But that's because He will REPLACE THE SUN WITH HIMSELF. He will be the light of the world; there'll be no need for the mechanism any longer.

These various cultures separated by distance and time all had future knowledge of 'events' and 'ages' because at the beginning the true creation story was passed down orally for many years. The many variations is to be expected with oral history and the influence of sin in culture. You know, people turning away from the truth over time and slight mythical variations entering the stories, hence the same stories with name changes ect. By the time Moses wrote the original oral story down, other cultures had deviated from it significantly.

Notice the significant differences in the interpretation of the final endtime event that is rapidy approaching the earth. The events are generally agreed upon but the interpretations are like night and day. And indeed they will literally turn out to be night and day.

You see, New-agers/Enlightenment/Mother Earth/Keshe foundation theorists believe that a after the next cycle of worldwide solar/earth catastrophe hits that a new leader will emerge and usher in Utopia and that everyone needs to get with the program, unite and cooperate with this new worldwide peace,love,enlightenment that's coming.

Christians on the other hand hold the exact opposite outcome of these celestial and earth events soon to occur. We belive that Satan has perverted the truth throughout ancient history by injecting lies to the creation and redemption story of the earth...pointing to other so called "forces","gods" which are really none other than fallen angels doing his bidding.

He will literally inhabit a man and claim to be Jesus returned from heaven. His co-conspirator will be a Spiritual Leader/Madhi/Pope/ and will perform miraculous miracles which no one has seen since the O.T. prophets and Jesus. The Bible says that the world will be in such turmoil from the Sun/Moon/Stars/Earthquake catastrophie as well as the worldwide economic doom and food shortage and war in the M.E. that they'll accept him. He'll have all the answers and promise peace and prosperity.

You see, he wants us to think that man himself has all the answers, that we can "unite in worship together and bring in utopia" ourselves. Everyone will think it's a good thing to join and take his mark. Everyone will think that all those people who disappeared were evil and that's why they were taken. There will still be people who will be smart enough to see through all this, remember what those who left said and refuse the mark. They'll be labelled as evil obstructionists and be hunted down and martyred, but they'll have eternal life in heaven.

I'm sorry... I know I'v been going on for so long and you've no doubt heard this perspective so I'll stop here.
I hope keep2thecode or someone else more well versed can provide more articulate answers.

I'm just very glad you're a thinker and have thought on these things and hope you continue to investigate more...especially read some scientific christian sites.

More importantly, that you'll just get alone with God and ask him to impress you and guide you to him and to the truth and be truely open if he leads you in a direction different than you expected.

I'll post some excellent sites you can check out.

Have a great day tomorrow,

Peace

Yes,

I do not expect you to believe me about the fourth seal until the famine gets so bad that people will be working a day for a loaf of bread.

The first 3 seals are a mystery because there have been wars and famines for thousands of years so it cannot be proven 100% that this current famine is the 3rd seal.

After the fourth seal is done and a 1/4 part of the Earth is wiped off the map, there will be no more doubting in the other 3/4 th of the Earth. The Christians left will know exactly where they are in the Book of revelation and a great revival will occur during the 5th seal, which will lead the AC to start the greatest persecution ever ..

The problem is for the poor souls in the 1/4 part of the world who have rejected the Lord. They will not get a second chance. That is why I post on this board.

Uncle

Links for Anhedonic -
[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to gracethrufaith.com]

more links coming

[link to www.godandscience.org]

I doubt if there will be any revival because Scripture says that when the man of evil shows up, God will send forth a strong delusion.....and the people will believe the lie.

In essence, the people that have spent a lifetime in rebellion against God......God will turn them over to this. The door of the arc will be shut.

This will be similar to how God hardened Pharoah's heart. He had spent a lifetime abusing Israel. God's judgments came. For awhile, he would want to let them go.....but because of his hardened heart.....he would relent.....and not let them go.


Satan will first go after the woman (Israel) who gave birth to the Child. God will supernatually protect a remnant. God will defend His Holy Name and Promise made to Abraham for his act of faith and obedience.

Satan will then go after the offspring......the gentile Christians who have been grafted into the natural branch.

Rev. Chp 12
2 Thess Chp 2

[/youtube]
[link to www.youtube.com]

The second rain will fall in the 5th seal and there will a rebirth of a new pure Bride. The Holy Spirit is coming to come on strong and remove the blinders from the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.

All will be given the chance to see the light in the fifth seal. Then most of the new Gentile converts will be killed during the Great Tribulation by the AC :(

The are two threads of prophecy in the end times. One for the Jews, and one for the Gentiles. I only speak for the Gentiles, because that understanding was given to me. Jewish prophecy will be fulfilled too for the Lord's namesake, in perfection of course :)

Everything you said will happen from the 6th seal onward, but that is far off. Getting the lost in North America to repent before the 4th seal is my only concern at this time.

Uncle

PS: I was in the states a few months ago. Things have gotten really bad and will continue to get worse. Just let it go. Let the dead bury their own dead, and follow Christ. Do not put your hope in politics. Free your spirit and follow Christ. Our nation has already been judged and there is nothing anyone can do about that because they are beyond repentance. Try to pull a few worthy folk from the fire. Peace.

It's been postponed due to a cashflow problem. Next week...No, next month...NO!! Next year or 2017...or 2047...maybe 2144...
The stupid is BEEEEG in this thread :-)

Excellent points, and well said.

God Himself told us in Gen. 1 the purpose of the sun, moon, and stars: to serve as lights, and to mark time. But eventually people turned away to worship the creation rather than the creator (Rom. 1). So God left them to their own imaginations, to their love of lies, to their self-destruction.

One thing I think is overlooked re. the "clock" of the cosmos is that nobody can prove that it started at "zero"; that is, even if calculations show that certain things happen in cycles lasting hundreds of thousands of years, they cannot say what the clock was set to when it started. They don't know when the first iteration of the cycle was, or that we've ever even completed one of them. All we have are just-so stories, and surprise surprise, they all are accepted as long as they contradict the Bible.

It's funny how people will believe any ridiculous thing as long as it puts a new spin on the Bible, but they reject the Bible because they think it's ridiculous if taken literally. They accept other theories on the very same basis they reject the Bible. I'm an Ockham's Razor sort, and one thing I can't ignore about all these other theories is their needless and contrived complexity.

My personal view is that there is indeed a setup going on in all this. They are conditioned to accept any ET/extra-dimensional being that fits their view of a "savior". It seems to me that all of the variety of theories can be fulfilled in the Beast; he will match enough of every theory to fool them all. But since the Mark is not mandated until after the Beast has assumed power at the midpoint of the Tribulation, and since this assumption of power is clearly indicated by his claim to be God, then this unmistakable blasphemy will be the clearest and final sign that the Beast cannot be the real Christ, since this is a very clear and undisputed prophetic fulfillment.

So people will be without excuse once again. This has been the age of faith, not of sight. But that age must end before the judgments of the Revelation ("sight") begin, so those of the age of faith (the church) must leave first. People can be saved afterwards, but at a terrible cost. I can only hope that those who believe the other theories will truly awaken before the Beast proclaims himself God in the rebuilt Jewish Temple. That's your giant clue, those of you not accepting the Bible's teachings.

well I guess you missed the rapture and got left behind?

this is all complete BS, can you people not THINK? God and Jesus don't work this way. And it has nothing to do with "religion" as to when you earn"heaven".

I already understand the sequence of the seals; see my studies at [link to bible.fether.net] .
You presume without warrant that the US is "that 1/4 part of the world"; there is nothing in scripture that specifies this as a physical location. And don't people die every day? Why only talk about repentance in the face of judgment? The gospel is what we are to preach every day, everywhere, not just when judgment is coming. And unlike the nation of Israel, we do not have "thus saith the Lord" prophets warning the nation of America. And as I just stated in my previous comment above, the Mark will not be given until after the Beast sits in the Jewish Temple and declares himself God. Those who are presently believers are already sealed with the Holy Spirit, and those who are not and enter the Tribulation will only be sealed by the Beast if they willingly and knowingly accept it.

If you really want to save people, stop with the fire and brimstone; that is OUR motivation, not theirs! You cannot scare people into a relationship.



No, there are two: the Bema Seat for believers, and the Great White Throne at the end of the Tribulation for unbelievers.


No. The Bible clearly states that all are "without excuse". As Paul told the Greeks on Mars Hill, God formerly overlooked people's ignorance in worshiping false gods, but now, since Jesus came, there are no excuses. After generations of missionary work and now the internet, there isn't any excuse left. This mistake is what leads to your next statement:


No excuses.


The US is a hotbed of the doctrines of demons, and no picnic for believers. You wouldn't want to be here in this police state embracing Islam with a passion. Again, the judgments are NOT regional unless specified, and this is clearly on Gog/Magog, Rosh, Israel, Egypt... the area of the old Roman Empire. Most judgments are GLOBAL. So don't think that because of where you live, you "have a small part in the 5th seal".


Who hates you? Is disagreement with you considered hate? All I've done is defend myself from attacks you now say weren't personal but did nothing to clarify at first. You come across as judgmental and condemnatory rather than helpful. Please reconsider your tone, and consider that you might be wrong about some basic things in prophecy.

T.Y.