Hi Keepthecode,

Yes, I think you are right... that it's number specific. But I do believe it's based on 2 numbers. Two groups have to reach their full number.

The full # of church-age gentiles in Rom.11:25 as you pointed out but also the full # of church-age martyrs must come in Rev.6:10-11.

After studying it; I've come to the conclusion that the end of the church-age and hence rapture and beginning of Jacob's trouble/trib. is at the opening of the 6th seal(Rev.6:17).

In verse 6:11 the church-age martyrs whose souls are in heaven under the altar ask how much longer till wrath/vengeance comes. Their(we're) answer comes in 7:9. I believe that's us... the large multitude of &:9-17 who suddenly arrive in heaven after the rapture.

I know a lot of people believe that none of the seals have been opened yet, but I think Jesus began opening them when he entered heaven after his resurrection as the victorious Lamb. After all, there have been more martyrs in the 20th century than all previous combined. I don't know the stats yet for 21st so far.

But even though the rapture is dependent on these 2 full #'s to come in, that doesn't necessarily rule out a specific or special date that God has in mind. He could make those 2 groups of people complete on a random day or during a feast.

Anyway, just some thoughts.