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REPORT ABUSIVE REPLY
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Message Subject
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Attention All Watchers for The Rapture of the Church??
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Poster Handle
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Morganite |
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Post Content
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Their(we're) answer comes in 7:9. I believe that's us... the large multitude of &:9-17 who suddenly arrive in heaven after the rapture. I know a lot of people believe that none of the seals have been opened yet, but I think Jesus began opening them when he entered heaven after his resurrection as the victorious Lamb. After all, there have been more martyrs in the 20th century than all previous combined. I don't know the stats yet for 21st so far. But even though the rapture is dependent on these 2 full #'s to come in, that doesn't necessarily rule out a specific or special date that God has in mind. He could make those 2 groups of people complete on a random day or during a feast. Anyway, just some thoughts.  Quite possible, of course. But I don't think the large crowd is from the church age, for these reasons: 1-- The appearance of something in heaven doesn't necessarily mean it just arrived. The four horses "appear", the souls under the altar "appear", etc. John is simply recording the order in which he sees various things. 2-- The group is described as "from all the nations" and is in contrast to the just-sealed group of 144k from the tribes of Israel, which seems to indicate that it is an all-Gentile group. Yet the church age believers are "a new creation", "neither Jew nor Greek", a third entity made from the other two. If the crowd is all Gentile, then it can't be the church. 3-- The Greek indicates that the group is composed of people who "come out of the Great Tribulation". This raises two points: that though this is only the sixth seal, these people are from the time of the bowl judgments; and the grammatical parsing indicates not time but origination. That is, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation". The group is not yet completed, and the time from which they arrive has not yet happened. Along with the absence of any reference to the ekklesia after the seven letters and until the end of the Tribulation, it seems to me that this all adds up to the church not being on earth when the seals begin to open. Thanks for your take on it - 1 Well, we know that they (their souls) just arrived out from under the altar and now they are STANDING CLOTHED WITH WHITE ROBES. John says "after these things I saw"...and he see's the 144,000 on earth getting sealed and This large multitude STANDING. 2 "from all the nations" means from all the nations, you can't be true to the text and decide to eliminate jews and make it refer to gentiles only. All nations, kindreds and people is very clear... This is the the body of christ made up of gentiles and messianic jews. 3 I don't know Greek, but I read somewhere that the greek word means "out of the time and place of".. I think the word is "ek"... but I could be wrong with the spelling. Also, yes it is the 6th seal so no, it's not the time of the bowl judgements b/c the 7thseal opens the trumpets before the bowls. Maybe there's no reference to the ekklesia during the opening of the seals is because John was up in heaven(Rev.4:1) seeing them being opened and the church was/is still on earth.... having not arrived in heaven yet. That's why he didn't see us there in heaven while the seals were being opened because we're here on earth during the 1st 5 seals and then he sees us in heaven during the 6th.
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