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A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2006 07:39 PM
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A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
I'm by no means a scholar on the specifics of the Hebrew Bible, Hebrew as a language, or the specifics of the idea that it was composed based on a set of mathematical rules. I leave the speculation of 'divine' inspiration up the the individual.

The thought I had is just one possibility in an ocean (like everything), and I'm certainly not claiming this to be true or false (I'm really not claiming anything at all).

Does it remind anybody else of a computer program? Each letter of the Hebrew alphabet having a corresponding numeric value is pretty much exactly the same as our letters having corresponding binary values. Has anyone researching the mathematics of it ever looked at it like a programming language (the basic idea of a programming language, anyway)? I know it may sound like cooky talk, but spend a minute thinking about the similarities between a computer and our brain; what if we (or at least our ancient ancestors) were the computers intended to run this program?

As I said, I'm making no claims because I obviously don't know. Just asking questions. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. yoda
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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05/09/2006 08:17 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Nobody has anything to say?
1WAKEBOARDER
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05/09/2006 08:25 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Bible Code is one example
MadMikkie

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05/09/2006 08:31 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
It's certainly an interesting thought.

Puts me in mind of those 'contact' stories where we have to figure out what info from "outer space" means - like in the Contact movie.

We do have an annoying habit of thinking we are the be all and end all. Maybe God in his telling etc hid something in the words for us to find when we're ready.

We won't escape the troubles but it owuld be interesting to see what would happen if it was all transalted into binary
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2006 08:43 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
You can find patterns in anything, and even find patterns in those patterns. Thats what math does. Whether those patterns are significant is up to the people looking for them.

Language is the same way and it is those patterns we use to decypher. It probably has to do with the rythyms of speach or the organic growth of language.
D. Bunker

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05/09/2006 08:47 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Yes, this has been looked at before. I read it many years ago. It was reviewed by many cryptologists. I do not recall the results of the study.
:savetata:


Favorite Quote - "I just fucking love outer space, it has all those planets and stars and shit." - Mister Obvious 2009
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2006 09:49 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
had you read this post from today
[link to www.fixedearth.com]
AC
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05/09/2006 10:04 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
OP:

Check out "The Secret In The Bible" by Tony Bushby (Joshua Books)

[link to www.joshuabooks.com]

Definitely adds credence to your ideas about coding in the Old Testament. Bushby makes a convincing case that links the Torah, Tarot Cards, Great Pyramids, etc. Very interesting stuff.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2006 10:04 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
144,000 x 300 = light speed... more discussion/interest here:

[link to www.akasha.de]
Patrick25

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05/09/2006 10:28 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
The bible today as we know it was put together (and this is fact, look it up) by dozens (if not more) people at diffrent times in history (some pieces were written in the years 900-1300) and was altered as time went by to adhere to what the christian/catholic religion wanted people to think.

For example: Back in the 1300's the catholic church used to pay for Priests living expenses and their families (yes priests were allowed to marry back then) - They wanted to save money, so they decided that priests weren't allowed to marry anymore (cheaper to support 1 man than his whole family).

My thoughts are that yes jesus did come on earth, yes there is a God and yes there is 'right and wrong" - Yes there is an afterlife (of some sort or another).

But I put no direct believe that everything I read in today's english translated/interpreted bible is fact.

I live my life the best I can, I help people out, I try to be moral and make the right decisions that I think that is all we will be held accountable for.

I don't think God cares about the rest of the fluff. - It was just put in the bible as time went by to suit the needs of those in power at the time. - In case some of you don't know, the Pope used to be the supreme power back in the day. He had more power than the "president of the US" does today.

So - that being said - I don't think we can hold any 'merit' to the mathematical enuendos in the bible today, since it was re-written, re-translated, and not to mention lots of stuff was removed/added as time went by.
None of what remains in the bible today has a direct link to what was actually written 2,000 years ago.

Also - just for fun, lots of people applied the same mathematical formulas to all kinds of books/novels/comic books written in the past 100 years and they come to the same type of conclusions/see the same types of messages...look it up.
gooderboy

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05/09/2006 10:37 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Shhhh, lol, the Bible's an inside job.
TimeLord
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05/09/2006 11:14 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
It's more than just mathematical. It IS a computer. If you want to see its design, read EZ Chap 40 onward. It is a step-by-step construction of a central processing unit complete with lasers, masers, vibrating posts, ringing arches, "light against light", golden encased chambers that go round about, the ark of the covenant that is made of gold and contains the Law of God which is represented by ten "words" encoded upon crystal that is not IN the ark but in the SIDE of the ark and is directly in line with the twelve stones on the breastplate of the high priest who "stands" in the doorway and connected by laser light from the three tiers of 33 chambers each that also contain "windows" or more appropriately "latticed windows" (agates) or rubies that face inward and all converge upon the mercy seat of the ark where the "Shekinah Glory" appears.

The stones on the breastplate are arranged according to the birth sequence and the women who birthed those children who finally represented the 12 children of Jacob--conceived by different women and therefore in "families" of structure creating a 3 dimensional "pathway" forward for the "ship" of which the entire structure of the temple is shaped. It is designed so that it may traverse time and space. Is that mathematical enough for you?
Patrick25

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05/09/2006 11:15 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Hey - Nobody's ever seen/found the "arc of the covenant" Just so you know! The only resason we "know about it" is because we found old scrolls that talk about it.

There's no proof that thing even exists.
Patrick25

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05/09/2006 11:20 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Point is, you can take any book/scroll/comic books and come to the same 'mathematical' conclusion. Same way you can make any random occurance of numbers 'mean something".

Words and text gets skewed as the years go by to suit the author's needs. There's no proof that what you read today was what was written way back then.

These things are being proven as fraud one by one ... Just like the "shroud of Turin" was proven to be fake a couple years ago.

Numbers/words can be interpreted in any number of ways to mean anything.

Here's a random series of number I'm pulling out of my butt right now:

39643567438645643653

Please someone, take that and extract some biblical/mythical meaning to them.
Better yet, prove to me how these numbers prove a comet will hit us soon.

I bet it will take someone 5 minutes to do that.
Askakido

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05/09/2006 11:21 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
The Bible in origianl text languages is a hyperdimensional matrix of semantics and syntax. The code is to find that path through this hyperdimensional maze.

The rules of the game according to the book is to find the one right dividing of the text that makes a person "approved of God". According to the Book, the only person that ever solved its maze was Jesus Christ, and According to the Book God's approval was shown by awarding him a resurrection unto eternal life.

Don't bother looking for number codes in it, although there are a few. The matrix is of semantics and syntax, linguistic and not numeric. Hence the standard Cryptologists that work exclusively with numeric codes were not able to crack it.

Those involved in GEMATRIA believe that there is a numeric code, that is not numerology, nor that found in Equal Distance Letter Spacing.
The only way to decode it is to have the exact copy of the originally penned books and such of the Old Testament, in particular the TORAH, a single letter alteration will present such a corruption that it breaks the encoding.

Those that have looked at in it light of Shannon's Information Theory have seen that it has a high degree of redundancy and other features that are commonly used in computer communication routines, such as check sums and a type of cyclic redundancy checking. In other words it is written to that the message can still get through even a very noisy communication channel. But deliberate distortion could distort the message enough to make it hazy or smokey... or fuzzy in places. Add to that the potential defects in translation (even the translator needs to interpret in order to translate) do work further to possibly twist a thing or two here or there that may make any numerical decoding (if it is a mathematical encoded text) nearly untrackable.

Still the linguist approach, I do not believe has ever been tried at least in modern times. One needs as a tool in doing so some very effective Hebrew and Greek and Aramic dictionaries and even Chaldeen. Also a very excellant understand of the grammar of these languages.

INTHEBEGINNINGGODCREATEDTHEHEAVENSANDTHEEARTHANDTHEEARTHWASWI​THOUTFORMANDDARKNESSWASUPONTHEFACEOFTHEDEEPANDGODSAIDLETTHERE​BELIGHTANDTHEREWASLIGHT...

Now look at the undivided Hebrew letter stream without the vowel markings and decide just were in that stream the very first word stops, in other words how long is the first word, and can there be more choices for a first word than just one?

With a beam of light springing forth from the palm of his had elohiym polished the great waters and the earth.
Anonymous Coward
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05/09/2006 11:28 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
yawn...
Patrick25

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05/09/2006 11:32 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
So if the synthax is through language, then how do you explain that NONE of the words written in it today existed back then?

Sorry but English wasn't around 2000 years ago.

The words in there today were written by scholars not very long ago. It's also interpreted diffrently depending on who you speak to.

The roman catholic bible has diffrent wording than the protestant bible for example ...

So your point is mute Sir
Askakido

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05/09/2006 11:44 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Patrick25, if you are going to work with the text, you would need to get all of the existing manuscriptes and codex in all the languages, Chaldean, Hebrew, Aramic, Coptic, Syriac, Greek. And go from there. The task is vastly daunting.

Forget working in the English. or any other translation, except possibly the 200 BC or so Septugiant Hebrew/Greek translation, which you might wish to include in your search.
Patrick25

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05/09/2006 11:48 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
88685:

Exacly - So someone telling me they went and bought a bible at their corner book store...applied some whacky math formulas and found secret meaning through that is wrong.
Askakido

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05/09/2006 11:52 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
I have often wondered why our "Modern Bibles" do not have copies of all the existing manuscripts in all their various languages and fonts. Along with an English (or what ever language) translation or two.

Now THERE would be a STUDY Bible.
Patrick25

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05/09/2006 11:56 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
I'll tell you why - Because the vatican choses what the public can and cannot see. (this is fact and they don't deny it either).

There are lots of texts/scrips that would be detrimental to the vatican's agenda I am sure of that.
Wings

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05/10/2006 07:03 AM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Sorry I took so long to reply, I was having problems with the autoban feature of GLP.

Here it is, as I have written it yesterday:

-------

Hi, have you heard of Dr. Ivan Panin?
He was born in Russia, in 1855, a mathematical genius and atheist that participated in the plot against the Czars government. Well, after he discovered some mathematical structures in the New Testament, he began to study the whole Bible, to see if there were more of those structures. Well, the results made him convert to Christianism.


You can read more about him, and his studies in this site:
[link to www.wordworx.co.nz]



cheers
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of the world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." ~ Ephesians 6: 12

Merry Christmas all! May our Lord Jesus Christ be born into your hearts every day of your lifes!
get with the program
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05/10/2006 07:27 AM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Yes, it is a program - a matrix. It's already END OF PROGRAM. Still waiting for everyone else to figure it out.



You don't need math or a formula to figure it out -- it's encoded in THE WORD.

Our Genesis I journey is described in the first few chapters of the Bible. Adam go conquer the Earth. Woman reproduce assorted forms of Adam to promote the survival of the fittest. In this instinctual animal world every feminine particle surrenders to the "TOP COCK" or most dominant male specimen, due to its stance of fearless virility. In nature this stance is for real, whereas "turn the other cheek" lacks logic. Someone or something set us up for overcoming human limitations.

[link to neu-ark.net]
idol_harobed

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05/10/2006 07:29 AM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Given any text lengthy enough the probability to find such codes is high.

Once they found several of the famous Bible Codes in Moby Dick's text...

damned
I am what I read.
kalamity kool

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05/10/2006 07:52 AM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
There are only sections of our brains that are similar to computers.

Did our ancestors have that section implanted?
TimeLord
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05/10/2006 08:09 AM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Much of the discussion here is really only surrounding the aspect of mathematical expression involving gematria. The groupings of Hebrew "words" are much more revealing in their non-linearity. They are more like differential equations mapping out the structure of curved space-time. Just the word MNzpoK, one of many 5 letter expressions, can be extrapolated (with astronomical star formations) to show the actual doughnut shape of our local galactic cluster. Other 5-letter groupings show pathways between star-cluster systems. Start thinking non-linear and you will begin to see the emerging structures.
Anonymous Coward
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05/10/2006 08:21 AM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
bump
Anonymous Coward
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05/10/2006 09:34 AM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
Askakid: I have often wondered why our "Modern Bibles" do not have copies of all the existing manuscripts in all their various languages and fonts. Along with an English (or what ever language) translation or two.

Patrick: Now THERE would be a STUDY Bible.

I'll tell you why - Because the vatican choses what the public can and cannot see. (this is fact and they don't deny it either).
---

Patrick, you didn't hear what Askakido said:

Askakido:

"Forget working in the English. or any other translation, except possibly the 200 BC or so Septugiant Hebrew/Greek translation, which you might wish to include in your search.:
--

This is the translation in the Catholic Bible that was referred to and quoted in the New Testament. It was removed and replaced by the Protestants. So were other books removed by the Protestants.
Wings

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05/10/2006 11:57 AM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
I wasn't refering to bible codes in my reply... Bible codes don't exist. It is quite obvious, you can find anything you want in a text, and then find a mathematical formula to justify it.
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of the world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." ~ Ephesians 6: 12

Merry Christmas all! May our Lord Jesus Christ be born into your hearts every day of your lifes!
a math messiah
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05/10/2006 12:14 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
this guy is a messiah based on a biblical math code.

he is also the anti christ.

[link to www.11-11.streamlinetrial.co.uk]
9net
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05/10/2006 12:23 PM
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Re: A thought about the mathematical structure of the Bible (serious replies only would be appreciated)
A few notes:
1.Use original hebrew texts(best are those without later corrections)
2.If there any code,it must stand out of body of text (something that was coded in solely for hidden message)
3.Global Bible code isn't possble on all bible text,it just unreasonable to write all this to conceal messages.
4.A small hidden fragment is possible,
most likely in Prophets works,since they wrote them by themself.
5.Cryptography in ancient world was lackign so most codes are very simple to decipher.Looking for parables,riddles,and nonsensical inclusions in main text for likely material.
6.The messages unlikely to be anything remotely connected to "god" and any supernatural entity,just a hidden knowledge,irrelevant today.
7.The message to include was probably personally connected to writer,to preserve his views/doctrine over generations of hostile authority.
i.e. The message likely to contain some heresy/unappropriate content in the day of embedding into main text.
8.The message that contains dissenting/hidden views was hoped to be read by smart people who view past the text,and likely never providing any deciphering codes.i.e. you never need computer to decipher such "codes"
9.Most likely codes are secondary
interpratations of hebrew roots:
common forms for roots are 3 consonant form,with multiple interpretations
which are only known if Niqqudot(Hebrew
vowel signs placed on letters) are placed on the root form.The oher possibilities are simple double meaning
sentences,out of context sentences and
codewords(words meaning something distinct but don't connect to etymological meaning) in normal lookign sentences giving another meaning if reiterpreted as codewords.





GLP