For christians:The scriptural PROOF that the Rapture is AFTER the tribulation. NO "Basis" here..PROOF!

"13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."- 1 Thessalonians 4:13

In the original Greek, the rapture is written as the 'harpazo'. In English, it is written as "caught up."

The coming rapture event is a certainty. What is less certain is its timing.

Real Christians read their bible and know this.

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Precisely. Read the bible, not a YouTube video.

"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."- Matthew 25:13

"1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know."- John 14:1-4

Peace

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Spoken like a true dogmatic Dispensationalist!

Yours is a false straw man argument. Pretribulationists do not say that no believer will be or will die in the Tribulation.

Instead, we say that many lost will see the rapture and then believe. These Tribulation Saints will become strong in the faith, and will die for it. They are the ones that will be found under the alter in heaven during the Tribulation.

Does your claim of being a "true dogmatic Dispensationalist" mean the poster is not "saved"?

If Saved, what difference does it make?

Yet you argue, why? Do you really think that crown only pretrib preachers get is really that precious?

Pretrib is stupid, even if it is "true" because there is no blessing or "gold crown" that makes your being saved better than his being saved.

Boasting of the crown you are supposedly going to wear around for eternity because you believe and contend with others about pre trib rapture is just anti-Christ.

The important thing to remember is that Yahshua(Jesus) saves. It is by His atoning sacrifice and grace ONLY that we can be saved and can make it heaven and to His coming Millennial Kingdom.

No amount of effort on our part will ever either get us to heaven or get us through the Tribulation to the Millennial Kingdom on the other side. Any hopes of an effort-based salvation are an insult to our Savior, to His sacrifice on the cross, and to His love and grace for us.

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It's good to support what you believe in. After much study, I have found the truth of Classical Dispensationalism and Pretribulationalism found within.

You still haven't offered an alternative End-Times theology. Do you have one?

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I think the pre-trib rapture school of thought can be attributed to some scholars who grabbed ahold of the notion of dispensationalism and could, therefore, only see things as occurring accordingly. This was then taught in evangelical churches, and it endures today.

The dispensationalists box themselves into theories that fit under the umbrella of this school of thought. So it is theory driven and in some ways, not Word driven. The preterists have also dug themselves a theory driven hole. God is not a theory or a paradigm and neither are His Words.

Many dispensationalists ascribe to more dispensations than what are found in the Word.

Believers would do well to read the Word and obey God's leading in their lives. We should share the Good News with those He has put in front of us. That is our job. There is little need to talk about the timing of our gathering up to Jesus when carrying out this job.

Also, it is possible the great tribulation will be regional. The Bible has all sorts of examples of the literary use of all inclusiveness ("all", "whole", etc.) when it is not possible that literally all or the whole or everyone was involved. It is a literary device. So who knows...it could be regional just like the flood was in all likelihood (based on research) regional.

I'm not sure who you are talking to here.

The poster you quoted is very anti-Dispensationalist for some reason. Yet he offers no alternative End-Times theology.

I don't think End-Times opinions affect salvation. We are either saved or lost. But they may affect the Crown of Righteousness that Yahshua(Jesus) has promised us that wait for His soon coming.

I'm not sure why there is so much hatred of Pretribulationism and Dispensationalism. But as long as people continue to attack it daily, I will continue to defend it because I believe it is the Truth, and with it comes the Blessed Hope and the Crown of Righteousness. And I'd feel guilty if I let the errors of their theology and constant and often hateful attacks turn people away from these blessings. We are supposed to be watchmen on the wall, and warn people and contend for the faith when needed.

The Blessed Hope is for those who watch and wait for our Savior's return. Why try to deny someone this hope?

The crowns that are given to some saints as rewards for good service will not be worn around for all eternity. They ALL will be laid at the feet of Yahshua, the only One who is worthy to wear any crowns. It will be a time to allow faithful believers to bless our Savior by giving Him their crowns. The crowns are part of a reward system Yahshua Himself has instituted, so if you have a problem with them you should really take it up with Him yourself.

The only boasting that should ever be done is to boast in Yahshua, our Savior and Messiah. Only He is worthy of such praise.

Peace

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Ah, the false date-setter spammer. You really should remove the threads from your wall of text that have nothing at all to do with date-setting. You are disingenuous when you add those and then represent them as if they are date-setting threads.

I have never noticed any Pretribulationists who 'cursed me to hell for not being pre trib.' Can you show me a few examples so that I may properly rebuke them?

"These are the same ones who are into the prosperity gospel and that holy laughter lakeland toronto blessing crap who also curse you to hell for not following that crap." - Yeah, I think you found some heresies here. I think these guys are quite confused. I even went to visit a revival of theirs to see the chaos for myself. It was unsettling to say the least.

Hate of others in any form or persuasion is very un-Christ-like. And I like to point it out loudly when I see it. In fact, I have seen quite a lot of hate directed against Pretribulationism and those who believe in it; And quite often too. Pick any rapture thread, and a certain percentage (often a large percentage) of the posts will be hate-filled and profanity-laced against Pre-Tribbers. It's quite a poor testament to non-believers who may be following the thread.

I try to keep emotionalism out of my posts as much as I can. It tends to detract from the message.

I'm sorry you had a bad run-in with that pastor and his 'flunkies.'

Unfortunately, there are those who want to profit from any line of work or position within a religion. If there's food in the water, there will come a shark from somewhere to eat it. It happens in all religions, even with those selling books that bash Pretribulationism. Preterism seems to be in vogue these days among many of the Charismatics, and they like to bash Pretribulationism. And their authors are making millions of dollars doing so.

There are cults out there that Christians should beware of. And there are date-setters out there that are clearly in contradiction to the bible and are in error. But orthodox Pretribulationism is neither a cult nor a date-setting theology. I hope you can see the difference.

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All i know is that im sick of it all.

Im sick of doctrines and fights and churches and the greed and the selfishness and the hate and the endless battle for the right to be right.

I am never going to read another religious book on ANY subject again.

I am never going to set foot in a church ever again.

Im so over it all.

Here is the world going to shit..people dying and starving...and ALL CHRISTIANS FUCKING CARE ABOUT IS THEIR FUCKING DOCTRINES AND CRAP.

Im so SICK OF IT.

Im so damn GLAD im almost dead now.

I dont know how much longer i could have put up with this never fucking ending BULLSHIT.

You are right that the world is turning to crap. And many modern churches with it. I think this reinforces that we are in the season of the End-Times. And it's just going to get worse as time goes on.

There are however many Christians that are doing good works for the dying and starving. My mother is one such Christian doing this. She is an inspiration for me and others.

And there is one thing I give Americans credit for: there are still more Americans giving to charities, many of them Christian, than most of the other nations of the world. The CAF global charity index ranked the USA as #2 in the world for charitable giving in 2015.

[link to www.cafonline.org (secure)]

So I think that not all hope is lost yet.

If we focus on studying and teaching the bible, I think that is a good thing, a noble thing. Godly men will disagree over different scriptures until our Lord returns to set us straight. Of that, I'm sure. But we teach as we understand and are able until He returns.

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You will meet Jesus Christ soon no matter what, right?

Thats right.

Probably before this year is out.

Im so over this world.

So over it.

It breaks my heart to see the ones who WERE TOLD to love others hating everyone around them in particular other christians who differ from their opinion.

Thousands have died needlessly while christians ARGUE AND ARGUE AND ARGUE AND ARGUE AND ARGUE.


And for WHAT?

its so their PRIDE AT THEIR OWN UNDERSTANDING CAN GET A BOOST.


Meanwhile the hungry starve.

The sick DIE.

And NONE OF THEM CARE.

Signs and wonders are SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW THEM.

It is SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW THOSE WHO BELEIVE.
NONE OF THEM BELEIVE....cause NO SIGNS FOLLOW THEM.

Only argument and smug self rightous ARROGANCE follows them...and a LONNG LONG LONG LONG LOOONG LIST OF FAILS.

TESTIMONY TO THEIR TRUE UNBELEIF.

Im so SICK OF IT.

I WANT TO DIE...and leave this world.

Ive done my part.

Im going HOME.

You seem to be carrying around a lot of anger, bitterness and resentment. I know the world can help to cause these things.

But now would seem like a good time to pray and let go of all those negative feelings. They will just drag you down.

Lay them at your Savior's feet and be done with them. He will take care of them.

Then focus on what matters most- your love and relationship with your Savior, and the love you have for those around you. Do what you can to help someone close to you. And prepare your heart to meet your maker.

In the end, that's about all we can do anyway.

Peace

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the opening post is incorrect as is the post-trib camp.

If post trib were true, there would be no one left to re-populate the Earth for Christ's millennial reign.

At the end of the trib period, there will only be 2 groups of people. those who took the mark (goats) and those who didn't take the mark as they have come to the saving knowledge of Christ (sheep).

we know that at the very end of the trib before going into the millennial kingdom, there will be the goat and sheep judgement----the goats do not go on into the millennial kingdom. If the sheep are all raptured at that time and become like the angels neither marrying nor given into marriage (no pro-creation), then who would be left to re-populate the Earth?

that is why a post-trib rapture doesn't work.

Havent you read the bible?

He said he shortened the days or no one would be left alive.

So he comes back and changes the elect into immortality.

But on earth there are still millions surviving who were not the elect.

Three groups.

The first group are those who took the mark.

They get obliterated at his coming.


The other two groups are the sheep and goat nations.

The goat nations like china for example hated christians and never gave them sanctuary.

Then there are sheep nations who did give sanctuary.

They are allowed to enter the millennium as mortals simply because instead of hating christians who were being hunted and killed by the beast they hid them and fed them at great risk to themselves.

Your conusion is based off lack of information.

Whats the use.

Its so pointless.

Those who have ears to hear have heard.

Those who are blind and deaf have not.

The seperation is now complete.

Buckle up people.

Its ON.

Matthew 13:37-43

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Bump

A lot has happenned since 2017.

A lot more is going to happen from now till 2023.

"Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching."

2nd Timothy 4:2

The bible says that all the worthless branches ^^^ will be gathered together, to be burned.

The left, and the right.

Goats to the left, sheep to the right.

Its easy to tell who the goats are.

They worship scofield and darby and missler and copeland and duplantis and khan and browne and dollar and all the rest of the happy masons swindle the christians club.

All masons btw.

Bump

This^^^

Yep

Bumping for rapture tards.