Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.

Sorry. There is a hell. A temporary separation between God and an unrepentant soul.
Once this soul leaves "time", any chance of salvation is severed.
When the new heavens and earth are created, those who choose to stay with this corrupt universe will inherit it's demise. When Jesus lets go of the elements into their true energy form, your undying body and soul will belocked into this fire.




Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.



Those who claim universal salvation are in danger of this universe of fire.

[link to tentmaker.org]


Through one trespass...
The judgment came
Upon ALL MEN
To condemnation.

Even So

Through one righteous act...
The free gift came
Upon ALL MEN
To justification of life.

Adam stuffed up so doom passed to all.

Billbions born doomed through no fault of their own.

Someone HAD to save them.

Jesus lived the life Adam did not.

He never STUFFED UP EVEN ONCE despite temptation.

So only HE HAD THE RIGHT to pay the fine and free mankind from a fate that was NOT THEIR FAULT.

And so he paid it in full.

In Adam ALL were sentenced to death.

In JESUS.....ALL WERE REDEEMED....their fine PAID FOR THEM.

They are no longer sentnced to death.

But they still are accountable for their PERSONAL actions.

Thats why it talks about rewards or loss of rewards.

And nowhere does it base the judgment on what you BELEIVED..


Its all based on WHAT YOU DID OR DID NOT DO..regardless of your religion.

Rev 21

5 Then the One sitting on the throne said, “Look! I am making everything new!” Also he said, “Write, ‘These words are true and trustworthy!’” 6 And he said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘A’ and the ‘Z,’ the Beginning and the End. To anyone who is thirsty I myself will give water free of charge from the Fountain of Life. 7 He who wins the victory will receive these things, and I will be his God, and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars — their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death.”

9 One of the seven angels having the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues approached me and said, “Come! I will show you the Bride, the Wife of the Lamb.” 10 He carried me off in the Spirit to the top of a great, high mountain and showed me the holy city, Yerushalayim, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It had the Sh’khinah of God, so that its brilliance was like that of a priceless jewel, like a crystal-clear diamond. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates; at the gates were twelve angels; and inscribed on the gates were the names of the twelve tribes of Isra’el. 13 There were three gates to the east, three gates to the north, three gates to the south and three gates to the west. 14 The wall of the city was built on twelve foundation-stones, and on these were the twelve names of the twelve emissaries of the Lamb.

22 I saw no Temple in the city, for Adonai, God of heaven’s armies, is its Temple, as is the Lamb. 23 The city has no need for the sun or the moon to shine on it, because God’s Sh’khinah gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 Its gates will never close, they stay open all day because night will not exist there, 26 and the honor and splendor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure may enter it, nor anyone who does shameful things or lies; the only ones who may enter are those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.



verse 25 - 27


in the church - these verses have no explanation

Hey deceiver we already have very big threads on this subject, one from Me777.
You can fill your deception in there, we don't really need another thread, plus you will get all the attention you need in there.

Here you go the Me777 thread:
Thread: ETERNAL PUNISHMENT Is It Really of God?

If there was no need for this thread then this thread would not exist would it? And I would not have been aware of your thread would I?

Mark 9:42-49King James Version (KJV)

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



Matthew 10:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

King James Version (KJV)

Matthew 13:49-50 King James Version (KJV)

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

Its all here in black and white.

If you say this is not true you are calling jesus a LIAR.

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.


Notice he said "TILL" the debt was paid...clearly stating that it COULD and WOULD be paid.

Christians teach it to mean..

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, and even after he should pay all that was due unto him he would never be let out and writhe in torture forever..

And again he said.

Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

So what it means is to work things out NOW while you have life and an easy chance to do so.

Otherwise if you dont deal with things now while its "Easy" to do so, you will have to pay for it the hard way.

But notice he still menationed it was "UNTIL" the last farthing was paid, and that he would NOT get out "UNTIL" it was paid in full.

In other words there is a limit to the the price you pay commesurate with what you owed.

But christians teach it like this.


Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, And even after you have paid you will never get out.

They like to teach the exact opposite to what Jesus said.

Its very clear.

How can anyone miss it??

But it sells books and makes money and keeps everyone in contant fear and easlily controlled.

The LAKE OF FIRE is NOT torture..its LOVE!!!!

Like flame melts the coldest of ice the lake of fire will melt and soften even the hardest of hearts.

There you will be surrounded by pure love and holiness.

This would be torment to a dark and evil heart and there they remail till all the evil in them is burt away.

Evil is death. Thats why death gets destroyed in the lake.

It cannot survive pure love.

So those in the lake will face the results of every evil action they ever committed and they will wail and gansh their teeth, as they feel the pain they caused others but not in "Revenge" state as is taught, but in a "Corrective" state.

They will finally understand at last their true state and that they are loved so deeply that they will be ashamed and eventually be purified of all their evil.

Im not talking about the catholic "Purgatory" where they are tortured for tortures sake in sadistic ways.

Its more like they get flooded and saturated by pure love itself and in their final understanding of what Love is they have all their hate and evil burnt out of them.

Because it happens in the PRESENCE of the LAMB (So much for it being a SEPERATION from him)


Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,(WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT CORRECTION NOT POITNLESS CRUELTY) which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Death dies because evil dies.

What is left at the end is just themselves...finally repentant and educated in the ways of mercy and love..all their hate and evil destroyed.\

The price they pay for doing things the "Hard" way is they hold themselves in everlasting contempt and shame and are never allowed into the holy city.

The will forever be on the "Outside" looking in.

But in no way screaming in torture forever.

Instead at the end when all is said and done every one of them will bow before their creator and confess "Jesus is Lord" and mean it because to do so they will have "Learnt: rightousness and been granted the Holy Spirit in order to be able to make that confession.

And that confession will be to the "Glory" of the Father.

How can the father get much "Glory" if they are all making that Meaningful heartfelt confession if they arew doing so under torture and duress?

IN the end LOVE wins because it cant LOSE.

It never fails.

And according to scripture..

Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

om_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

AND..they CANT make this confession UNLESS..

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

And to HAVE the Holy Ghost requires REPENTANCE..

And therefore ALL who confess this AT the end MUST have God dwelling iN them DUE to repentance..

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

In other words they paid the last farthing..have learnt their lesson..have repented and are now able to make this confession and mean it.

Those whose names were not found written in the book of life and had to die the "Second death" were never allowed into the city..

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And after they have paid the last farthing in the lake of the fire of His pure love he will..

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

So sorrow and pain and agony and tears HAVE AN END.

Its the opposite of what is taught where they say that those very things will continue on forever in a place sustained BY God.

But at the end even the hardests of sinners will be made whole and have all their tears wiped away.

But they can never enter the city. They were not among the ones who "Took care of busines" on the way to court.

They had to pay it all in full to the last stripe..

And this includes christians who dont do what the Lord asked..they get the SAME punishment as the "Unbeleivers"

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

There is no discrimination made here.

A Christian who treats his fellows badly will get the SAME punishment even if he did "Beleive"

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Notice it didnt say "INFINITE" Stripes but "Many".

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So once again He is clearly saying that there IS AN END and a LIMIT to how one paid their debt and that "Christians" who are ratbags to others get the SAME punishment in the SAME place as the "UNBELEIVERS"...who of course get FEWER stripes because they DID NOT KNOW.

But christians teach it to mean..once again the OPPOSITE

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with INFINITE stripes.

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with INFINITE STRIPES as well. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But Why did Jesus die you may ask if everyone "Repents" at the end??

He died so you would not HAVE to experience the second death.

If you want to experience it..and it probably wont be fun..keep preaching fear and terror..you know..the very OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught.

Read the post again..see what HE TAUGHT!

And if you do..you will realise that NOT EVERYONE gets to HEAVEN..as Heaven IS the New Jerusalem.

The ones that had to die the "Second death" ..are forever denied entrance or any authority in the Kindom.

They themselves are saved..but they sure did SUFFER LOSS..and will hold themselves in "Everlasting" contempt..for being so foolish as to have NOT done things the easy way when they had the chance.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Notice it said "ANY MAN"..no discrimination here again.

Notice the "FIRE"?..Thats his PURE LOVE..and it will BURN UP DROSS..and everything NOT DONE in love will BURN.

But the person..even if they were evil to the core..will lose EVERYTHING..ALL rewards..but they themselves WILL be saved..but,,are never allowed into the city..EVER.[/

Could of not explained it better,thought it was me confused- happy to know I'm not the only one this has been to revealed to

Dont worry bout it.

Its obvious me777 didnt even read this thread.

Yet wants everyone to feed off the fear and sadism in his.

If there is one thing i have learnt over the years is that most christians worship and rever hell more than they do god.

This shows by their reactions.

Speak against god and they may react a little but usually just ignore you and offer to pray for you.

But lay a finger on their precious torture pit and they foam and curse and spit like a pack of rabid muslims who just stumbled on a picture of mohammad blowing a pig.

Its all here in black and white.

If you say this is not true you are calling jesus a LIAR.

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.


Notice he said "TILL" the debt was paid...clearly stating that it COULD and WOULD be paid.

Christians teach it to mean..

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, and even after he should pay all that was due unto him he would never be let out and writhe in torture forever..

And again he said.

Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

So what it means is to work things out NOW while you have life and an easy chance to do so.

Otherwise if you dont deal with things now while its "Easy" to do so, you will have to pay for it the hard way.

But notice he still menationed it was "UNTIL" the last farthing was paid, and that he would NOT get out "UNTIL" it was paid in full.

In other words there is a limit to the the price you pay commesurate with what you owed.

But christians teach it like this.


Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, And even after you have paid you will never get out.

They like to teach the exact opposite to what Jesus said.

Its very clear.

How can anyone miss it??

But it sells books and makes money and keeps everyone in contant fear and easlily controlled.

The LAKE OF FIRE is NOT torture..its LOVE!!!!

Like flame melts the coldest of ice the lake of fire will melt and soften even the hardest of hearts.

There you will be surrounded by pure love and holiness.

This would be torment to a dark and evil heart and there they remail till all the evil in them is burt away.

Evil is death. Thats why death gets destroyed in the lake.

It cannot survive pure love.

So those in the lake will face the results of every evil action they ever committed and they will wail and gansh their teeth, as they feel the pain they caused others but not in "Revenge" state as is taught, but in a "Corrective" state.

They will finally understand at last their true state and that they are loved so deeply that they will be ashamed and eventually be purified of all their evil.

Im not talking about the catholic "Purgatory" where they are tortured for tortures sake in sadistic ways.

Its more like they get flooded and saturated by pure love itself and in their final understanding of what Love is they have all their hate and evil burnt out of them.

Because it happens in the PRESENCE of the LAMB (So much for it being a SEPERATION from him)


Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,(WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT CORRECTION NOT POITNLESS CRUELTY) which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Death dies because evil dies.

What is left at the end is just themselves...finally repentant and educated in the ways of mercy and love..all their hate and evil destroyed.\

The price they pay for doing things the "Hard" way is they hold themselves in everlasting contempt and shame and are never allowed into the holy city.

The will forever be on the "Outside" looking in.

But in no way screaming in torture forever.

Instead at the end when all is said and done every one of them will bow before their creator and confess "Jesus is Lord" and mean it because to do so they will have "Learnt: rightousness and been granted the Holy Spirit in order to be able to make that confession.

And that confession will be to the "Glory" of the Father.

How can the father get much "Glory" if they are all making that Meaningful heartfelt confession if they arew doing so under torture and duress?

IN the end LOVE wins because it cant LOSE.

It never fails.

And according to scripture..

Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

om_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

AND..they CANT make this confession UNLESS..

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

And to HAVE the Holy Ghost requires REPENTANCE..

And therefore ALL who confess this AT the end MUST have God dwelling iN them DUE to repentance..

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

In other words they paid the last farthing..have learnt their lesson..have repented and are now able to make this confession and mean it.

Those whose names were not found written in the book of life and had to die the "Second death" were never allowed into the city..

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And after they have paid the last farthing in the lake of the fire of His pure love he will..

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

So sorrow and pain and agony and tears HAVE AN END.

Its the opposite of what is taught where they say that those very things will continue on forever in a place sustained BY God.

But at the end even the hardests of sinners will be made whole and have all their tears wiped away.

But they can never enter the city. They were not among the ones who "Took care of busines" on the way to court.

They had to pay it all in full to the last stripe..

And this includes christians who dont do what the Lord asked..they get the SAME punishment as the "Unbeleivers"

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

There is no discrimination made here.

A Christian who treats his fellows badly will get the SAME punishment even if he did "Beleive"

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Notice it didnt say "INFINITE" Stripes but "Many".

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So once again He is clearly saying that there IS AN END and a LIMIT to how one paid their debt and that "Christians" who are ratbags to others get the SAME punishment in the SAME place as the "UNBELEIVERS"...who of course get FEWER stripes because they DID NOT KNOW.

But christians teach it to mean..once again the OPPOSITE

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with INFINITE stripes.

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with INFINITE STRIPES as well. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But Why did Jesus die you may ask if everyone "Repents" at the end??

He died so you would not HAVE to experience the second death.

If you want to experience it..and it probably wont be fun..keep preaching fear and terror..you know..the very OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught.

Read the post again..see what HE TAUGHT!

And if you do..you will realise that NOT EVERYONE gets to HEAVEN..as Heaven IS the New Jerusalem.

The ones that had to die the "Second death" ..are forever denied entrance or any authority in the Kindom.

They themselves are saved..but they sure did SUFFER LOSS..and will hold themselves in "Everlasting" contempt..for being so foolish as to have NOT done things the easy way when they had the chance.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Notice it said "ANY MAN"..no discrimination here again.

Notice the "FIRE"?..Thats his PURE LOVE..and it will BURN UP DROSS..and everything NOT DONE in love will BURN.

But the person..even if they were evil to the core..will lose EVERYTHING..ALL rewards..but they themselves WILL be saved..but,,are never allowed into the city..EVER.[/

But thats the point of the thread..WHAT THE BIBLE says..

You didnt read it did you?

Most christians DONT actually READ their bibles..they read chick tracts..books..utube vids and sermons BASED on those things..and taken out of context and twisted into something dark and fear filled.

But rarely do they actually READ whats in the bible for themselves.

I was the same too.


I was a hell screamer rapture tard for 30 years..beleiving all the tracts and books and speakers and utubes..I KNOW how the system works.

One day I sat down and read the book objectivly..JUST to see if what was IN it compared to what we were told (Due to a challenge I recieved right here at GLP)

Someone said "Have you ever actually READ that book?..objectivly?..or have you just bought into whats been SAID about it by the ones at the top who make all the cash from your FEAR?"

So..being a good "berean"..I accepted the "Challenge"..and studied all the points they brought up..line by line//precept by precept..


And lo and behold..found we have all be SATANICALLY and TERRIBLY DECIVED!

And that deception actually makes sense..

because if I was Satan...the very first thing on my agenda would be to make god LOOK like everything I in fact was..a worship demanding merciless self absorbed tyrant who cares nothing about torturing trillions.

THATS satan for ya..NOT GOD.

Now throw those illuminati sponsored tracts away Judethz and THINK!

OP, you are correct.

The second death that the bible tells us off, is your spiritual death and this death is eternal, meaning that your essence is no more for all eternity.

Hell is a false doctrine, promoted by false teachers.

Most people want to believe in hell and eternal torture, because they cannot accept the idea that those who have wronged against them can (sort of) get away with it. In other words, if they can get no justice in this world, they must get it in the next one.

It's human nature to be petty and vindictive, and eternal torture has always sounded like a human invention to me. If you believe that there is an omnipotent supernatural being who made us, it does not make sense for him to send us to a literal "lake of fire" or some pit where demons torture us.

Interpreting the "lake of fire" as separation from god makes more sense, but even that doesn't quite compute. It suggests that the people who get separated from god are somehow beyond salvage - even for the omnipotent god. If they are not beyond salvage, then the separation indicates that god does not, indeed, love us all equally and to the extent the Bible describes it.

I think "You reap as you sow" and the Golden Rule sum it all up. If there's an afterlife or a bigger reality than this, maybe we will face the consequences of our actions from the other's viewpoint. A most interesting idea is that there is only one soul/spirit inhabiting many human bodies and it lives the lives of all people (past, present and future) concurrently. When you hurt one human entity, you are hurting yourself in another.

Its all here in black and white.

If you say this is not true you are calling jesus a LIAR.

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.


Notice he said "TILL" the debt was paid...clearly stating that it COULD and WOULD be paid.

Christians teach it to mean..

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, and even after he should pay all that was due unto him he would never be let out and writhe in torture forever..

And again he said.

Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

So what it means is to work things out NOW while you have life and an easy chance to do so.

Otherwise if you dont deal with things now while its "Easy" to do so, you will have to pay for it the hard way.

But notice he still menationed it was "UNTIL" the last farthing was paid, and that he would NOT get out "UNTIL" it was paid in full.

In other words there is a limit to the the price you pay commesurate with what you owed.

But christians teach it like this.


Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, And even after you have paid you will never get out.

They like to teach the exact opposite to what Jesus said.

Its very clear.

How can anyone miss it??

But it sells books and makes money and keeps everyone in contant fear and easlily controlled.

The LAKE OF FIRE is NOT torture..its LOVE!!!!

Like flame melts the coldest of ice the lake of fire will melt and soften even the hardest of hearts.

There you will be surrounded by pure love and holiness.

This would be torment to a dark and evil heart and there they remail till all the evil in them is burt away.

Evil is death. Thats why death gets destroyed in the lake.

It cannot survive pure love.

So those in the lake will face the results of every evil action they ever committed and they will wail and gansh their teeth, as they feel the pain they caused others but not in "Revenge" state as is taught, but in a "Corrective" state.

They will finally understand at last their true state and that they are loved so deeply that they will be ashamed and eventually be purified of all their evil.

Im not talking about the catholic "Purgatory" where they are tortured for tortures sake in sadistic ways.

Its more like they get flooded and saturated by pure love itself and in their final understanding of what Love is they have all their hate and evil burnt out of them.

Because it happens in the PRESENCE of the LAMB (So much for it being a SEPERATION from him)


Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,(WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT CORRECTION NOT POITNLESS CRUELTY) which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Death dies because evil dies.

What is left at the end is just themselves...finally repentant and educated in the ways of mercy and love..all their hate and evil destroyed.\

The price they pay for doing things the "Hard" way is they hold themselves in everlasting contempt and shame and are never allowed into the holy city.

The will forever be on the "Outside" looking in.

But in no way screaming in torture forever.

Instead at the end when all is said and done every one of them will bow before their creator and confess "Jesus is Lord" and mean it because to do so they will have "Learnt: rightousness and been granted the Holy Spirit in order to be able to make that confession.

And that confession will be to the "Glory" of the Father.

How can the father get much "Glory" if they are all making that Meaningful heartfelt confession if they arew doing so under torture and duress?

IN the end LOVE wins because it cant LOSE.

It never fails.

And according to scripture..

Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

om_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

AND..they CANT make this confession UNLESS..

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

And to HAVE the Holy Ghost requires REPENTANCE..

And therefore ALL who confess this AT the end MUST have God dwelling iN them DUE to repentance..

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

In other words they paid the last farthing..have learnt their lesson..have repented and are now able to make this confession and mean it.

Those whose names were not found written in the book of life and had to die the "Second death" were never allowed into the city..

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And after they have paid the last farthing in the lake of the fire of His pure love he will..

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

So sorrow and pain and agony and tears HAVE AN END.

Its the opposite of what is taught where they say that those very things will continue on forever in a place sustained BY God.

But at the end even the hardests of sinners will be made whole and have all their tears wiped away.

But they can never enter the city. They were not among the ones who "Took care of busines" on the way to court.

They had to pay it all in full to the last stripe..

And this includes christians who dont do what the Lord asked..they get the SAME punishment as the "Unbeleivers"

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

There is no discrimination made here.

A Christian who treats his fellows badly will get the SAME punishment even if he did "Beleive"

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Notice it didnt say "INFINITE" Stripes but "Many".

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So once again He is clearly saying that there IS AN END and a LIMIT to how one paid their debt and that "Christians" who are ratbags to others get the SAME punishment in the SAME place as the "UNBELEIVERS"...who of course get FEWER stripes because they DID NOT KNOW.

But christians teach it to mean..once again the OPPOSITE

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with INFINITE stripes.

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with INFINITE STRIPES as well. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But Why did Jesus die you may ask if everyone "Repents" at the end??

He died so you would not HAVE to experience the second death.

If you want to experience it..and it probably wont be fun..keep preaching fear and terror..you know..the very OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught.

Read the post again..see what HE TAUGHT!

And if you do..you will realise that NOT EVERYONE gets to HEAVEN..as Heaven IS the New Jerusalem.

The ones that had to die the "Second death" ..are forever denied entrance or any authority in the Kindom.

They themselves are saved..but they sure did SUFFER LOSS..and will hold themselves in "Everlasting" contempt..for being so foolish as to have NOT done things the easy way when they had the chance.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Notice it said "ANY MAN"..no discrimination here again.

Notice the "FIRE"?..Thats his PURE LOVE..and it will BURN UP DROSS..and everything NOT DONE in love will BURN.

But the person..even if they were evil to the core..will lose EVERYTHING..ALL rewards..but they themselves WILL be saved..but,,are never allowed into the city..EVER.[/

the book of Enoch states that those on the good side will be able to pray their loved ones out of hell, or something to that affect. That is why they have always tried to discredit that book, or at least one of the reasons. Who knows for sure, I don't.

Most people want to believe in hell and eternal torture, because they cannot accept the idea that those who have wronged against them can (sort of) get away with it. In other words, if they can get no justice in this world, they must get it in the next one.

It's human nature to be petty and vindictive, and eternal torture has always sounded like a human invention to me. If you believe that there is an omnipotent supernatural being who made us, it does not make sense for him to send us to a literal "lake of fire" or some pit where demons torture us.

Interpreting the "lake of fire" as separation from god makes more sense, but even that doesn't quite compute. It suggests that the people who get separated from god are somehow beyond salvage - even for the omnipotent god. If they are not beyond salvage, then the separation indicates that god does not, indeed, love us all equally and to the extent the Bible describes it.

I think "You reap as you sow" and the Golden Rule sum it all up. If there's an afterlife or a bigger reality than this, maybe we will face the consequences of our actions from the other's viewpoint. A most interesting idea is that there is only one soul/spirit inhabiting many human bodies and it lives the lives of all people (past, present and future) concurrently. When you hurt one human entity, you are hurting yourself in another.
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Calling those who crave Justice "petty and vindictive" is the battle cry of all the depraved nasty little monsters who want to continue with their depredations and have a psychopathic OUTRAGE at the thought that anyone would dare object.

Why would it not make perfect sense for a Creator with the least sense of Honor and Justice to value the sufferings of those who have not chosen the cowardly and cruel path and punish those who have?

Where in HHHHYYYYYYEEEEEEEELLLLLLL did you ever get the idea that our Creator "loves us all equally"?(nvm, I know exactly where.) Do you love Stalin equally with your own child?

There are a lot of interesting ideas out there. That the universe was hatched from an egg or that the rape of little boys is the most glorious thought ever conceived or that we could all live in a sugar mountain fairy gumdrop Marxist wonderland of perfect social "justice" equality are interesting ideas. How many hundreds of millions and billions have been enslaved savaged and destroyed by interesting ideas?

That there is too much thought of Hell instead of FAR TOO LITTLE is an interesting idea. It causes the more enlightened among us to froth at the mouth and yearn for the suffering and death of anyone who dares hope for Justice. But what would the world look like if everyone truly feared that they would go to Hell if they won't be half-decent?

Is the suffering of the Truly repenting half-decent exactly equivalent to the suffering of the cruel and cowardly and their tools and dupes who make themselves every bit as guilty? If Damien inflicts one unit of suffering on half-decent Bob and ten units of suffering on half-decent Sally, should he receive eleven units as punishment?

A Creator, with the most minute fraction of the resources needed for creating and sustaining this universe, is perfectly capable of administering vastly more than eleven units on all the cruel and relentless little monsters.

All that is required is the faintest little flicker of a sense of Honor and Justice.

Yes, everlasting sounds like a long time.

Adam stuffed up so doom passed to all.

Billbions born doomed through no fault of their own.

Someone HAD to save them.

Jesus lived the life Adam did not.

He never STUFFED UP EVEN ONCE despite temptation.

So only HE HAD THE RIGHT to pay the fine and free mankind from a fate that was NOT THEIR FAULT.

And so he paid it in full.

In Adam ALL were sentenced to death.

In JESUS.....ALL WERE REDEEMED....their fine PAID FOR THEM.

They are no longer sentnced to death.

But they still are accountable for their PERSONAL actions.

Thats why it talks about rewards or loss of rewards.

And nowhere does it base the judgment on what you BELEIVED..


Its all based on WHAT YOU DID OR DID NOT DO..regardless of your religion.