Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.

You ignore the second death. And twist His word to suit you, you are wrong, all who belive you will face eternal issues, unresolvable ones. Your love has waxed cold

And all of them at some point heard this at sunday school or from a christian relative....so of course..thats what they saw and smelt.

Then there are the ones..LOTS of them..that were clinically dead for a LONG time and saw NOTHING at all.

In fact the amount of people who saw NOTHING and just described it as SLEEP..far outweighs those who saw something.

So..how do you explain that???

Few people seem to get the difference between eternal punishment and eternal punishing.

If you're a born again believer, why does it matter? You should have assurance of heaven. I trust God His infinite wisdom and righteousness to give the proper punishment to the proper people. Those who second guess His righteous judgment are NOT Christians in any sense.

Judgmental much?

Tell me about it.

That and a willing blindness.

The second death was mentioned a few times in that post.

Its the eternal torture folk who twist things to suit themselves.

They think Jesus is a total liar and an unmerciful torture loving tyrant.

That explains their fruit.

They emulate in the hateful judgmental attitude what they think God is.

Luke 16

19“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’

He was telling a parable..a story..and secondly he was taking the mickey out of the pharisees by telling it.

He was actually mocking their false teachings.

Look again at the context and the reason he told that story.

Its all here in black and white.

If you say this is not true you are calling jesus a LIAR.

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.


Notice he said "TILL" the debt was paid...clearly stating that it COULD and WOULD be paid.

Christians teach it to mean..

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, and even after he should pay all that was due unto him he would never be let out and writhe in torture forever..

And again he said.

Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

So what it means is to work things out NOW while you have life and an easy chance to do so.

Otherwise if you dont deal with things now while its "Easy" to do so, you will have to pay for it the hard way.

But notice he still menationed it was "UNTIL" the last farthing was paid, and that he would NOT get out "UNTIL" it was paid in full.

In other words there is a limit to the the price you pay commesurate with what you owed.

But christians teach it like this.


Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, And even after you have paid you will never get out.

They like to teach the exact opposite to what Jesus said.

Its very clear.

How can anyone miss it??

But it sells books and makes money and keeps everyone in contant fear and easlily controlled.

The LAKE OF FIRE is NOT torture..its LOVE!!!!

Like flame melts the coldest of ice the lake of fire will melt and soften even the hardest of hearts.

There you will be surrounded by pure love and holiness.

This would be torment to a dark and evil heart and there they remail till all the evil in them is burt away.

Evil is death. Thats why death gets destroyed in the lake.

It cannot survive pure love.

So those in the lake will face the results of every evil action they ever committed and they will wail and gansh their teeth, as they feel the pain they caused others but not in "Revenge" state as is taught, but in a "Corrective" state.

They will finally understand at last their true state and that they are loved so deeply that they will be ashamed and eventually be purified of all their evil.

Im not talking about the catholic "Purgatory" where they are tortured for tortures sake in sadistic ways.

Its more like they get flooded and saturated by pure love itself and in their final understanding of what Love is they have all their hate and evil burnt out of them.

Because it happens in the PRESENCE of the LAMB (So much for it being a SEPERATION from him)


Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,(WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT CORRECTION NOT POITNLESS CRUELTY) which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Death dies because evil dies.

What is left at the end is just themselves...finally repentant and educated in the ways of mercy and love..all their hate and evil destroyed.\

The price they pay for doing things the "Hard" way is they hold themselves in everlasting contempt and shame and are never allowed into the holy city.

The will forever be on the "Outside" looking in.

But in no way screaming in torture forever.

Instead at the end when all is said and done every one of them will bow before their creator and confess "Jesus is Lord" and mean it because to do so they will have "Learnt: rightousness and been granted the Holy Spirit in order to be able to make that confession.

And that confession will be to the "Glory" of the Father.

How can the father get much "Glory" if they are all making that Meaningful heartfelt confession if they arew doing so under torture and duress?

IN the end LOVE wins because it cant LOSE.

It never fails.

And according to scripture..

Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

om_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

AND..they CANT make this confession UNLESS..

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

And to HAVE the Holy Ghost requires REPENTANCE..

And therefore ALL who confess this AT the end MUST have God dwelling iN them DUE to repentance..

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

In other words they paid the last farthing..have learnt their lesson..have repented and are now able to make this confession and mean it.

Those whose names were not found written in the book of life and had to die the "Second death" were never allowed into the city..

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And after they have paid the last farthing in the lake of the fire of His pure love he will..

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

So sorrow and pain and agony and tears HAVE AN END.

Its the opposite of what is taught where they say that those very things will continue on forever in a place sustained BY God.

But at the end even the hardests of sinners will be made whole and have all their tears wiped away.

But they can never enter the city. They were not among the ones who "Took care of busines" on the way to court.

They had to pay it all in full to the last stripe..

And this includes christians who dont do what the Lord asked..they get the SAME punishment as the "Unbeleivers"

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

There is no discrimination made here.

A Christian who treats his fellows badly will get the SAME punishment even if he did "Beleive"

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Notice it didnt say "INFINITE" Stripes but "Many".

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So once again He is clearly saying that there IS AN END and a LIMIT to how one paid their debt and that "Christians" who are ratbags to others get the SAME punishment in the SAME place as the "UNBELEIVERS"...who of course get FEWER stripes because they DID NOT KNOW.

But christians teach it to mean..once again the OPPOSITE

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with INFINITE stripes.

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with INFINITE STRIPES as well. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But Why did Jesus die you may ask if everyone "Repents" at the end??

He died so you would not HAVE to experience the second death.

If you want to experience it..and it probably wont be fun..keep preaching fear and terror..you know..the very OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught.

Read the post again..see what HE TAUGHT!

And if you do..you will realise that NOT EVERYONE gets to HEAVEN..as Heaven IS the New Jerusalem.

The ones that had to die the "Second death" ..are forever denied entrance or any authority in the Kindom.

They themselves are saved..but they sure did SUFFER LOSS..and will hold themselves in "Everlasting" contempt..for being so foolish as to have NOT done things the easy way when they had the chance.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Notice it said "ANY MAN"..no discrimination here again.

Notice the "FIRE"?..Thats his PURE LOVE..and it will BURN UP DROSS..and everything NOT DONE in love will BURN.

But the person..even if they were evil to the core..will lose EVERYTHING..ALL rewards..but they themselves WILL be saved..but,,are never allowed into the city..EVER.[/

lol this aussie (the op) just keeps getting his threads (based off what his itching ears wants to hear)and his ass handed to him. hes been debunked in every single one of his God/truth hating scripture twisting threads lololol

He was telling a parable..a story..and secondly he was taking the mickey out of the pharisees by telling it.

He was actually mocking their false teachings.

Look again at the context and the reason he told that story.

In other words he made the whole thing up to sell books and create fear and slander the Lord is an evil terrible monster.

Ive read all the hell stories..I was raised with them..they make God out to be an indifferntcruel sadist on par and way worse even than the inquisitors who used to burn and skin and flay people three centuries ago..IN the name of God.

They were able to BE this satanically ccruel because they thought God was JUST LIKE THEM..arrogant..cruel..prod..and heartless.

But those are what Satan is..

ANYONE seeing the pattern of slander and deception yet???

so does the Talmud allow paedophilia? and did Jesus accept this as the old way he wasn't here to change?

The answer is yes to both. The Talmud allows underage sex as long as it is in the confines of marriage and with a Rabbi..oops

did Jesus hate gays? ehhh, yes.

Jesus sounds a bit of a cunt really and if all you Christians who are arguing for eternal damnation are not out stoning gays and raped women who didn't marry the rapist then won't you go to hell forever because I think allegedly your God said you should?

With all his parables, he never uses any specific names. Here he used very specific names, Lazarus, and also Moses.

lol this aussie (the op) just keeps getting his threads (based off what his itching ears wants to hear)and his ass handed to him. hes been debunked in every single one of his God/truth hating scripture twisting threads lololol

They teach God is unjust and will torture everyone forever.

How is that justice?

How many times did God state he is JUST and His justice works better than ours does?

So maybe we should be like they teach God is, and whenever someone does a crime no matter how big or small, we should just burn them alive because after all..isnt that what Gods "Perfect" justice does according to them?

Justice is punishing wickedness.
You say wickedness should not be punished, proves you're unjust or you say wickedness is not as serious as having eternal consequences for those not redeemed.

This guy explains it ok:
[link to www.boundless.org]

It's still in there:
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

you guys are so sick and so wicked while hiding behind some false covering that you are "good", "oh look God doesn't punish eternally because that's so mean", not it's not mean it's Justice.

Talk about not understanding that you have broken all of God's law by one sin.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

and since you are guilty of breaking all the law of God there comes the eternal punishment as a letter in the mail.

You universalists are exactly like the other lost people whining about God being wicked and evil for taking vengeance. It's talked about in Romans:

Ro 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Ro 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
Ro 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
Ro 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Ro 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

and the Bible is clear about this thing where God takes vengeance:
2Th 1:5 ¶ Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Here's more that refutes this universalist garbage:
Jude 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

There's no point in earnestly contending for the faith if universalism is true, universalism kills evangelism, because what you are trying to people from?

You've made a mockery of Jesus sacrifice, the law and you also have made a mockery out of salvation.

It's a stupid satanic heresy, that looks good to the unregenerate man, it looks good to the flesh.

In this you are very much like the calvinists that say no one can resist God but you can:
GOD CAN BE LIMITED -- “Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel” (Psalm 78:41).

JESUS WOULD BUT ISRAEL WOULD NOT -- “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” (Mat. 23:37).

JESUS WOULD BUT ISRAEL WOULD NOT -- “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” (Mat. 23:37).

GOD STRETCHED FORTH HIS HANDS TO ISRAEL BUT ISRAEL REJECTED HIM -- “But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people” (Rom. 10:21). “I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts” (Isaiah 65:2).

THE JEWS RESISTED THE HOLY SPIRIT -- “Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye” (Acts 7:51).

THE JEWS BROUGHT THE WRATH OF GOD UPON THEMSELVES -- “For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost” (1 Thess. 2:14-16).
etc.
[link to www.wayoflife.org]

Jesus taught if you sin you go to hell. If you are righteous you go to heavan. Isaiah 18:20