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Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 07:46 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Jesus taught if you sin you go to hell. If you are righteous you go to heavan. Isaiah 18:20
 Quoting: Noon 45421321


And isnt that what this thread said as well?

Its just that hell is NOT forever.

Its a process..not a dump.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46880975


Exactly. But for Hitler who killed 6 million jews he has to be killed 6 million times for the justice of each killed! God is not unjust in the least degree.
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 07:51 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Jesus taught if you sin you go to hell. If you are righteous you go to heavan. Isaiah 18:20
 Quoting: Noon 45421321


And isnt that what this thread said as well?

Its just that hell is NOT forever.

Its a process..not a dump.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46880975


Exactly. But for Hitler who killed 6 million jews he has to be killed 6 million times for the justice of each killed! God is not unjust in the least degree.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 45396139


Stripe for stripe...blow for blow.

Every bit of anguish and pain one caused another in this life will be experinced and wholeheartedly felt in the next.

And no one gets out till the very last and very least of the wrongs they committed are paid for.

Thats why he said "To the LAST penny"..in other words..the final cent.

They did ot accept the debt payment on their behalf and did evil..so..they pay the bill themselves.

But in the end..all will pay thier debt..or HAVE it paid for them if they deal with it "On the way to court"
mr know it all
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09/15/2013 08:12 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
test
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 08:20 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Whats really interesting is the lack of responses but the top votes...people are silenced with this truth..its to "Stunning" and cannot be debunked..

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


cruise

You "no hell" lying idiots have been debunked a hundred times.
Do they pay you to rehash old lies?
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 08:23 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Whats really interesting is the lack of responses but the top votes...people are silenced with this truth..its to "Stunning" and cannot be debunked..

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


cruise

You "no hell" lying idiots have been debunked a hundred times.
Do they pay you to rehash old lies?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8912511


Um..the post did not say there was NO hell.

And ive yet to see the hell screamers debunk it.

But you dont even pay atention to whats posted because if you did you would not have made such a statement of it saying there was NO hell.

So how the heck can you ever hope to debunk anything at all if you dont even read the posts to start with?

But thats probably why you never debunk them..you just copy paste the same old drivel which THIS post totally debunks.

Next
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 08:26 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Very interesting
 Quoting: Simple_Man


Whats really interesting is the lack of responses but the top votes...people are silenced with this truth..its to "Stunning" and cannot be debunked..

The hell screamers cannot curse at it because its what Jesus actually taught...to cure this thread they curse HIM in effect because they are HIS teachings.

The rest (The unchurched) are unable to say much because..how do you mock something thats NOT threatening to torture them forever for once, and realising whats written is the actual truth..and that christians and the churches that breed them have been lying to them for centuries about the contents of their own book..and the very words of their OWN savior..

There is no excuse..its from His mouth..its what he taught..and every other verse about the subject in the bible backs it up.

Because God IS LOVE.

Another thing christians have lied about to conform to the hell doctrine.

Its NOT an ATTRIBUTE of his..its what HE ACTAULLY IS!!!!!!

1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

So WHAT are the TELLING FEATURES of the LOVE that GOD ACTUALLY IS???


1Co 13:4 LOVE suffereth long, and is kind; LOVE envieth not; LOVE vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

1Co 13:8 LOVE never faileth:

But to hear most christians preach..they TWIST it to mean...

1Jn 4:8 He that condemeth others not to hell knoweth not God; for God is JUSTICE and REVENGE.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the JUSTICE and RAGE that God hath to us. God is JUSTICE and ETERNAL RAGE; and he that dwelleth in JUSTICE and etrnal SPITE dwelleth in God, and God in him.

So WHAT are the TELLING FEATURES of the JUSTICE and ETERNAL RAGE that GOD ACTUALLY IS according to how they preach it???


1Co 13:4 JUSTICE and RAGE suffereth NOTHING, and is unkind; JUSTICE and RAGE envieth all things; JUSTICE and RAGE vaunteth itself and DEMANDS worship on pain of ETERNAL TORURE, and is INCREDIBLY puffed up,

1Co 13:5 Doth behave itself unseemly, seeketh always its own, easily provoked, thinketh eternal evil;

1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth in iniquity, but rejoiceth NOT in the truth;

1Co 13:7 Burneth all things, condemneth all things, hopeth all things burn, endureth nothing.

1Co 13:8 And LOVE??? well..it ALWAYS faileth:
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


OP, I have one complaint PLEASE would you write in 2013 language and not THE KING JAMES jargon! It is so irritating and foolish when people use a language that is long gone, speak like Jesus did, simple, giving parables to explain to the Gentiles what His heart was all about.

Can you do this?
TailDragger

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09/15/2013 08:29 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
what Source/Version is the OP Quoting?
I feel suffocated by the Oxygen Channel.
Found John Galt. (finally saw part 3)
Philly Sux! Fucking Pot Holes from last winter are just bigger.
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 08:29 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
True, Jesus teached eternal destruction, not torture. The soul is not eternal (e.g. Luke 12:4)
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 08:30 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Whats really interesting is the lack of responses but the top votes...people are silenced with this truth..its to "Stunning" and cannot be debunked..

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


cruise

You "no hell" lying idiots have been debunked a hundred times.
Do they pay you to rehash old lies?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8912511


Um..the post did not say there was NO hell.

And ive yet to see the hell screamers debunk it.

But you dont even pay atention to whats posted because if you did you would not have made such a statement of it saying there was NO hell.

So how the heck can you ever hope to debunk anything at all if you dont even read the posts to start with?

But thats probably why you never debunk them..you just copy paste the same old drivel which THIS post totally debunks.

Next
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46880975


The Lake of Fire is eternal.
Corner

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09/15/2013 08:48 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Jesus taught how to live.
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 05:35 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Very interesting
 Quoting: Simple_Man


Whats really interesting is the lack of responses but the top votes...people are silenced with this truth..its to "Stunning" and cannot be debunked..

The hell screamers cannot curse at it because its what Jesus actually taught...to cure this thread they curse HIM in effect because they are HIS teachings.

The rest (The unchurched) are unable to say much because..how do you mock something thats NOT threatening to torture them forever for once, and realising whats written is the actual truth..and that christians and the churches that breed them have been lying to them for centuries about the contents of their own book..and the very words of their OWN savior..

There is no excuse..its from His mouth..its what he taught..and every other verse about the subject in the bible backs it up.

Because God IS LOVE.

Another thing christians have lied about to conform to the hell doctrine.

Its NOT an ATTRIBUTE of his..its what HE ACTAULLY IS!!!!!!

1Jn 4:8 He that doesnot love does not know God; for God is love.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.

So WHAT are the TELLING FEATURES of the LOVE that GOD ACTUALLY IS???


1Co 13:4 LOVE puts up aith endless crap, and is always kind; LOVE does not envy others; LOVE is not up itself, is not puffed up with arrogance and pride,

1Co 13:5 Does not behave itself in a rude manner, never seeks its own way, does not get angry easily, never thinks evil thoughts of revenge or hate;

1Co 13:6 Does not celebrate evil or lies, but celebtares and promotes the truth;

1Co 13:7 Puts up with all things, believes the best in all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

1Co 13:8 LOVE never fails:

But to hear most christians preach..they TWIST it to mean...

1Jn 4:8 He that does not condemn others to hell does not know God ; for God is JUSTICE and REVENGE.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the JUSTICE and RAGE that God has towards us. God is JUSTICE and ETERNAL RAGE; and he that dwells on and preaches JUSTICE and etrnal SPITE dwells in God, and God in him.

So WHAT are the TELLING FEATURES of the JUSTICE and ETERNAL RAGE that GOD ACTUALLY IS according to how they preach it???


1Co 13:4 JUSTICE and RAGE put up with NOTHING, and is unkind; JUSTICE and RAGE envies all things; JUSTICE and RAGE is arrogant and rude and DEMANDS worship on pain of ETERNAL TORTURE, and is INCREDIBLY puffed up,

1Co 13:5 Does behave itself with snide arrogance, seeks always its own, easily provoked, thinks and preaches eternal evil;

1Co 13:6 Revels in iniquity and lies, but mocks and condemns the truth;

1Co 13:7 Burns all things, condemns all things, hopes all things burn, puts up with nothing.

1Co 13:8 And LOVE??? well..it ALWAYS fails:
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


OP, I have one complaint PLEASE would you write in 2013 language and not THE KING JAMES jargon! It is so irritating and foolish when people use a language that is long gone, speak like Jesus did, simple, giving parables to explain to the Gentiles what His heart was all about.

Can you do this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46831792


Fixed
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 06:06 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
1Jn 4:8 He that does not love does not know God; for God is love.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.

So WHAT are the TELLING FEATURES of the LOVE that GOD ACTUALLY IS???


1Co 13:4 LOVE puts up with endless crap, and is always kind; LOVE does not envy others; LOVE is not up itself, is not puffed up with arrogance and pride,

1Co 13:5 Does not behave itself in a rude manner, never seeks its own way, does not get angry easily, never thinks evil thoughts of revenge or hate;

1Co 13:6 Does not celebrate evil or lies, but celebtares and promotes the truth;

1Co 13:7 Puts up with all things, believes the best in all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

1Co 13:8 LOVE never fails:

But to hear most christians preach..they TWIST it to mean...

1Jn 4:8 He that does not condemn others to hell does not know God ; for God is JUSTICE and REVENGE.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the JUSTICE and RAGE that God has towards us. God is JUSTICE and ETERNAL RAGE; and he that dwells on and preaches JUSTICE and etrnal SPITE dwells in God, and God in him.

So WHAT are the TELLING FEATURES of the JUSTICE and ETERNAL RAGE that GOD ACTUALLY IS according to how they preach it???


1Co 13:4 JUSTICE and RAGE put up with NOTHING, and is unkind; JUSTICE and RAGE envies all things; JUSTICE and RAGE is arrogant and rude and DEMANDS worship on pain of ETERNAL TORTURE, and is INCREDIBLY puffed up,

1Co 13:5 Does behave itself with snide arrogance, seeks always its own, easily provoked, thinks and preaches eternal evil;

1Co 13:6 Revels in iniquity and lies, but mocks and condemns the truth;

1Co 13:7 Burns all things, condemns all things, hopes all things burn, puts up with nothing.

1Co 13:8 And LOVE??? well..it ALWAYS fails:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 46880975
Australia
09/15/2013 08:16 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
1Jn 4:8 He that does not love does not know God; for God is love.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.

So WHAT are the TELLING FEATURES of the LOVE that GOD ACTUALLY IS???


1Co 13:4 LOVE puts up with endless crap, and is always kind; LOVE does not envy others; LOVE is not up itself, is not puffed up with arrogance and pride,

1Co 13:5 Does not behave itself in a rude manner, never seeks its own way, does not get angry easily, never thinks evil thoughts of revenge or hate;

1Co 13:6 Does not celebrate evil or lies, but celebtares and promotes the truth;

1Co 13:7 Puts up with all things, believes the best in all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

1Co 13:8 LOVE never fails:

But to hear most christians preach..they TWIST it to mean...

1Jn 4:8 He that does not condemn others to hell does not know God ; for God is JUSTICE and REVENGE.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the JUSTICE and RAGE that God has towards us. God is JUSTICE and ETERNAL RAGE; and he that dwells on and preaches JUSTICE and etrnal SPITE dwells in God, and God in him.

So WHAT are the TELLING FEATURES of the JUSTICE and ETERNAL RAGE that GOD ACTUALLY IS according to how they preach it???


1Co 13:4 JUSTICE and RAGE put up with NOTHING, and is unkind; JUSTICE and RAGE envies all things; JUSTICE and RAGE is arrogant and rude and DEMANDS worship on pain of ETERNAL TORTURE, and is INCREDIBLY puffed up,

1Co 13:5 Does behave itself with snide arrogance, seeks always its own, easily provoked, thinks and preaches eternal evil;

1Co 13:6 Revels in iniquity and lies, but mocks and condemns the truth;

1Co 13:7 Burns all things, condemns all things, hopes all things burn, puts up with nothing.

1Co 13:8 And LOVE??? well..it ALWAYS fails:
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46880975



bumpFor the modern english version^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
me777

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09/15/2013 08:22 PM

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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
FIFTEEN QUESTIONS FOR SOBER THOUGHT

1 If God will have all men to be saved, and if most men are lost, then how can God be supreme (1 Tim.2:3,4)?

2 If Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did He die in vain for the lost (1 John 2:2)?

3 If God is going to reconcile the universe through Christ, how can some be tormented forever (Col. 1:20)?

4 How can God, in Christ, gather all things together as one while billions remain eternally estranged (Eph.1:10)?

5 If all die in Adam, and a few are made alive in Christ, how can grace much more abound than sin (Rom. 5:20)?

6 If all men are condemned by Adam’s offense, why are not all justified by the one just award (Rom. 5:18)?

7 If all die in Adam, why shall not all be made alive in Christ (1 Cor. 15:22)?

8 How can every knee bow confessing Christ Lord, to God’s glory, unless reconciled (Phil. 2:10,11)?

9 If Christ only hath immortality, how can any of the dead be alive now (1 Tim. 6:14-16; 1 Cor. 15:53, 54)?

10 If the wicked go to hell as soon as they die, why are they raised and judged later (Rev. 20:11-15)?

11 Since the lake of fire is the second death, what happens to the wicked when death is destroyed (1 Cor.15:26)?

12 If “forever” means “eternity” what does “forever and ever” mean?

13 If God is Love and has all power, will He not find away to save all (1 Tim. 4:9-11)?

14 If Christ is to reign for ever and ever, what does it mean that He will abdicate His throne (Rev. 11:15; 1 Cor. 15:24)?

15 Will God ever actually become All in all (1 Cor.15:28)?


FACTS TO HELP YOU THINK RIGHT

1 The Sacred Scriptures were not written in English but in Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek.

2 The socalled Bibles we have today are but man’s translations of God’s Word, and are, therefore, imperfect.

3 Faulty versions have helped create the many sects and divisions of Christendom.

4 Inaccurate renderings have given rise to unjustified hopes, and consequent skepticism.

Example: “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass" (Rev. 1:1, A.V.).
Corrected: “The Unveiling of Jesus Christ, which God gives to Him, to show to His slaves what must occur swiftly” (Rev. 1:1, Concordant Version).
The prophecies of Revelation did not shortly come to pass, but when judgment starts, the blows will fall swiftly (compare John 20:4). John ran more swiftly than Peter. The same Greek word is used, in both places.

5 Most of the Bible concerns God’s earthly people Israel; things for us to know, though not about us.
Example: James is addressed to the twelve tribes. That is why it is often so discordant with Paul’s epistles. Compare: James 5:14-16 with 1 Timothy 5:23; James 4:9 with Colossians 3:16; James 2:24 with Romans 3:28.

6 Truth for the Church which is Christ’s body is found in the thirteen epistles of Paul. Read Ephesians 3:2-9.

7 There is no Hebrew or Greek word in all the Scriptures that has the meaning of our English word “hell.”
Hades and Sheol are the Imperceptible. Gehenna is a refuse dump near Jerusalem. The Lake of Fire is the second death. Tartarus is spoken concerning messengers.

8 It is nowhere stated in the Bible that man has an immortal soul. We put on immortality in the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:53). Christ alone has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16)

9 Of course we do not wish to insinuate for a moment that the son of stubbornness will escape judgment All the dead, great and small, except those who are Christ’s at His presence, will have to stand before the Great White Throne to be judged. They will he judged according to the truth (Rom. 2:21; according to deeds (Rom. 2:6; Rev. 20:12,13); and, according to the light they have had (Rom. 2:12).

[link to www.saviourofall.org]
Subscribe to my blog:
Exposing The Darkness
End times headline news. Research and analysis of world events in light of Bible prophecy.
[link to lionessofjudah.substack.com (secure)]
me777

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09/15/2013 08:36 PM

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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
THE GOD OF CHRISTENDOM

God, in the beginning, created a perfect Angel called the “Anointed Cherub” whose name was Lucifer.

This perfect Angel one day fell in sin, and became a devil, ruining much of God's universe, and is the cause of all sin and evil, and also the cause of ruin and sin in other perfect angels, now called demons.

Author's note: This reminds one of a man who invents a machine or creates something for the good of himself and humanity, and then this machine goes out of his control and ruins all, against the original will and intention of the inventor.

God then was fortunate to have a son who, being purposed to die on Calvary, could at least salvage part of the ruin.

God then wanted human beings by the millions to love and serve and worship Him, and He "willed all mankind to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth."

But alas, the newly created Adam and Eve also went bad on God, and again God's intention with the human race failed. Again He blundered.

The best that God can now do since Adam, is to appeal and beg and plead with sinners so He at least gets some in heaven, otherwise the Devil gets them all in hell.

The Devil is also appealing to sinners not to accept Christ, and thus He is trying to get as many as He can into an endless hell. God is trying to get as many as He can into heaven.

“God’s” Failure and Satan’s Victory

Author's note: Thus the conclusion must be reached that the Devil's will is more powerful and successful than God's. Hell must then be forever and ever a monument to God's failure and to Satan's victory.

God foresaw all of these millions and billions of human beings when He created Adam and Eve, and He must have seen what an expensive proposition it would be; what a gamble; for He would have to send about 500 or more to an eternal hell for each one which He gets in heaven.

Then at the Tower of Babel, He deliberately upsets the one language of the world, and makes it that much more difficult for heathens and sinners to get saved. For, when viewed from present day missionary appeals, what a boon one language in the world would have been! Now the student must study two years or so to learn a dialect or language, and in the meantime thousands of heathens die and are eternally lost.

Then during the dark ages, either God would not or could not give the world, for hundreds of years, printed Bibles, tracts, radios, printing presses, etc. And even to this day there are millions of heathens not reached, who, for the most part, must be lost, or we would not send missionaries and money to the foreign fields.

God is weak enough to get the infants into heaven, but when they mature, the Devil gets most of them. Fortunate for the baby and for God when babies and little children get killed.

Then in conclusion, God miraculously keeps these billions of sinners alive forever and ever so they can undergo their eternal "gnashing of teeth" in fire and miraculously be kept burning. What profit this is to God or to the billions of culprits in Hell we are not told.

And, when we begin to ask a few questions, we are immediately hushed and told that we must not ask such questions; however, we are supposed to believe in this blundering, weak, failing god of protestantism and catholicism, the popular god of Christendom.

The thing that amazes the author is that most Christians dare not face the conclusion of their own religious beliefs.

THE GOD OF THE SACRED SCRIPTURES

1 Tim. 4:10 He is the Saviour of all mankind. (Not of believers and infants only).
1 John 2: 2 He is the propitiation for Our sins, and not ours only, but for the whole world.
John 1:29 He is the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world. (Not believers only).
Rom.11:32 He locks all up in stubbornness (Jew and Gentile) that He may be merciful to all.
1 Tim.1:15 He came into the world to save sinners. (Not to save non-sinners, or lose 90 percent of them).
1 Tim.2: 3 He wills all mankind to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth (cp Eph.1:11).
Prov.16: 1-4 (Rev.4:11) He has made all for Himself. (Not 90 percent for the Devil eternally).
Col.1:20,21 He will future reconcile all. (In verse 21, He has reconciled us now. He has made us a “firstfruits” (not "only fruits").
Rom.8:19-26 He subjects the whole creation, and it waits in hope (vs. 20).
1 Cor. 15:22 He is capable of restoring all the damage under the first Adam (cp Rom.5:18,19).
1 Cor.15:28 He shall some day be "All in all" (not "all in some").


“For all is out of Him, and all is through Him, and all is for Him; to Whom be the glory for the eons.” Amen (Romans 11:36).

[link to www.saviourofall.org]

Last Edited by me777 on 09/15/2013 08:37 PM
Subscribe to my blog:
Exposing The Darkness
End times headline news. Research and analysis of world events in light of Bible prophecy.
[link to lionessofjudah.substack.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 09:40 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anonymous Coward
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09/15/2013 09:55 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
THE GOD OF CHRISTENDOM

God, in the beginning, created a perfect Angel called the “Anointed Cherub” whose name was Lucifer.

This perfect Angel one day fell in sin, and became a devil, ruining much of God's universe, and is the cause of all sin and evil, and also the cause of ruin and sin in other perfect angels, now called demons.

Author's note: This reminds one of a man who invents a machine or creates something for the good of himself and humanity, and then this machine goes out of his control and ruins all, against the original will and intention of the inventor.

God then was fortunate to have a son who, being purposed to die on Calvary, could at least salvage part of the ruin.

God then wanted human beings by the millions to love and serve and worship Him, and He "willed all mankind to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth."

But alas, the newly created Adam and Eve also went bad on God, and again God's intention with the human race failed. Again He blundered.

The best that God can now do since Adam, is to appeal and beg and plead with sinners so He at least gets some in heaven, otherwise the Devil gets them all in hell.

The Devil is also appealing to sinners not to accept Christ, and thus He is trying to get as many as He can into an endless hell. God is trying to get as many as He can into heaven.

“God’s” Failure and Satan’s Victory

Author's note: Thus the conclusion must be reached that the Devil's will is more powerful and successful than God's. Hell must then be forever and ever a monument to God's failure and to Satan's victory.

God foresaw all of these millions and billions of human beings when He created Adam and Eve, and He must have seen what an expensive proposition it would be; what a gamble; for He would have to send about 500 or more to an eternal hell for each one which He gets in heaven.

Then at the Tower of Babel, He deliberately upsets the one language of the world, and makes it that much more difficult for heathens and sinners to get saved. For, when viewed from present day missionary appeals, what a boon one language in the world would have been! Now the student must study two years or so to learn a dialect or language, and in the meantime thousands of heathens die and are eternally lost.

Then during the dark ages, either God would not or could not give the world, for hundreds of years, printed Bibles, tracts, radios, printing presses, etc. And even to this day there are millions of heathens not reached, who, for the most part, must be lost, or we would not send missionaries and money to the foreign fields.

God is weak enough to get the infants into heaven, but when they mature, the Devil gets most of them. Fortunate for the baby and for God when babies and little children get killed.

Then in conclusion, God miraculously keeps these billions of sinners alive forever and ever so they can undergo their eternal "gnashing of teeth" in fire and miraculously be kept burning. What profit this is to God or to the billions of culprits in Hell we are not told.

And, when we begin to ask a few questions, we are immediately hushed and told that we must not ask such questions; however, we are supposed to believe in this blundering, weak, failing god of protestantism and catholicism, the popular god of Christendom.

The thing that amazes the author is that most Christians dare not face the conclusion of their own religious beliefs.

THE GOD OF THE SACRED SCRIPTURES

1 Tim. 4:10 He is the Saviour of all mankind. (Not of believers and infants only).
1 John 2: 2 He is the propitiation for Our sins, and not ours only, but for the whole world.
John 1:29 He is the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world. (Not believers only).
Rom.11:32 He locks all up in stubbornness (Jew and Gentile) that He may be merciful to all.
1 Tim.1:15 He came into the world to save sinners. (Not to save non-sinners, or lose 90 percent of them).
1 Tim.2: 3 He wills all mankind to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth (cp Eph.1:11).
Prov.16: 1-4 (Rev.4:11) He has made all for Himself. (Not 90 percent for the Devil eternally).
Col.1:20,21 He will future reconcile all. (In verse 21, He has reconciled us now. He has made us a “firstfruits” (not "only fruits").
Rom.8:19-26 He subjects the whole creation, and it waits in hope (vs. 20).
1 Cor. 15:22 He is capable of restoring all the damage under the first Adam (cp Rom.5:18,19).
1 Cor.15:28 He shall some day be "All in all" (not "all in some").


“For all is out of Him, and all is through Him, and all is for Him; to Whom be the glory for the eons.” Amen (Romans 11:36).

[link to www.saviourofall.org]
 Quoting: me777


THIS post NEEDS its own thread.
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2013 05:44 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
bump
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09/22/2013 06:12 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Jesus said:

If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.


Matthew 5:29,30


Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

Becausefn narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.


Matthew 7:13,14


And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28


Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

Matthew 23:33


Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:41


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2013 06:18 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
R.C. Sproul


"There is no biblical concept more grim or terror-invoking than the idea of hell. It is so unpopular with us that few would give credence to it at all except that it comes to us from the teaching of Christ Himself.

Almost all the biblical teaching about hell comes from the lips of Jesus. It is this doctrine, perhaps more than any other, that strains even the Christian’s loyalty to the teaching of Christ. Modern Christians have pushed the limits of minimizing hell in an effort to sidestep or soften Jesus’ own teaching. The Bible describes hell as a place of outer darkness, a lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesn’t turn or die. These graphic images of eternal punishment provoke the question, should we take these descriptions literally or are they merely symbols?

I suspect they are symbols, but I find no relief in that. We must not think of them as being merely symbols. It is probable that the sinner in hell would prefer a literal lake of fire as his eternal abode to the reality of hell represented in the lake of fire image. If these images are indeed symbols, then we must conclude that the reality is worse than the symbol suggests. The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain. That Jesus used the most awful symbols imaginable to describe hell is no comfort to those who see them simply as symbols."


"Perhaps the most frightening aspect of hell is its eternality. People can endure the greatest agony if they know it will ultimately stop. In hell there is no such hope. The Bible clearly teaches that the punishment is eternal. The same word is used for both eternal life and eternal death. Punishment implies pain. Mere annihilation, which some have lobbied for, involves no pain. Jonathan Edwards, in preaching on Revelation 6:15-16 said, “Wicked men will hereafter earnestly wish to be turned to nothing and forever cease to be that they may escape the wrath of God.”"

[link to www.bible-researcher.com]
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2013 06:30 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Jesus said:

There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.

But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,

desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.

And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’

But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,

‘for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’

Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’

And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’

But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’


Luke 16:19-31
anonymous
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09/22/2013 06:35 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
There are several scriptures that show the evil wicked will be consumed or burned up. The lake of fire will consume all the evil and God's enemies.
david07

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09/22/2013 07:08 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Its all here in black and white.

If you say this is not true you are calling jesus a LIAR.

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.


Notice he said "TILL" the debt was paid...clearly stating that it COULD and WOULD be paid.

Christians teach it to mean..

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, and even after he should pay all that was due unto him he would never be let out and writhe in torture forever..

And again he said.

Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

So what it means is to work things out NOW while you have life and an easy chance to do so.

Otherwise if you dont deal with things now while its "Easy" to do so, you will have to pay for it the hard way.

But notice he still menationed it was "UNTIL" the last farthing was paid, and that he would NOT get out "UNTIL" it was paid in full.

In other words there is a limit to the the price you pay commesurate with what you owed.

But christians teach it like this.


Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, And even after you have paid you will never get out.

They like to teach the exact opposite to what Jesus said.

Its very clear.

How can anyone miss it??

But it sells books and makes money and keeps everyone in contant fear and easlily controlled.

The LAKE OF FIRE is NOT torture..its LOVE!!!!

Like flame melts the coldest of ice the lake of fire will melt and soften even the hardest of hearts.

There you will be surrounded by pure love and holiness.

This would be torment to a dark and evil heart and there they remail till all the evil in them is burt away.

Evil is death. Thats why death gets destroyed in the lake.

It cannot survive pure love.

So those in the lake will face the results of every evil action they ever committed and they will wail and gansh their teeth, as they feel the pain they caused others but not in "Revenge" state as is taught, but in a "Corrective" state.

They will finally understand at last their true state and that they are loved so deeply that they will be ashamed and eventually be purified of all their evil.

Im not talking about the catholic "Purgatory" where they are tortured for tortures sake in sadistic ways.

Its more like they get flooded and saturated by pure love itself and in their final understanding of what Love is they have all their hate and evil burnt out of them.

Because it happens in the PRESENCE of the LAMB (So much for it being a SEPERATION from him)


Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,(WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT CORRECTION NOT POITNLESS CRUELTY) which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Death dies because evil dies.

What is left at the end is just themselves...finally repentant and educated in the ways of mercy and love..all their hate and evil destroyed.\

The price they pay for doing things the "Hard" way is they hold themselves in everlasting contempt and shame and are never allowed into the holy city.

The will forever be on the "Outside" looking in.

But in no way screaming in torture forever.

Instead at the end when all is said and done every one of them will bow before their creator and confess "Jesus is Lord" and mean it because to do so they will have "Learnt: rightousness and been granted the Holy Spirit in order to be able to make that confession.

And that confession will be to the "Glory" of the Father.

How can the father get much "Glory" if they are all making that Meaningful heartfelt confession if they arew doing so under torture and duress?

IN the end LOVE wins because it cant LOSE.

It never fails.

And according to scripture..

Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

om_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

AND..they CANT make this confession UNLESS..

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

And to HAVE the Holy Ghost requires REPENTANCE..

And therefore ALL who confess this AT the end MUST have God dwelling iN them DUE to repentance..

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

In other words they paid the last farthing..have learnt their lesson..have repented and are now able to make this confession and mean it.

Those whose names were not found written in the book of life and had to die the "Second death" were never allowed into the city..

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And after they have paid the last farthing in the lake of the fire of His pure love he will..

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

So sorrow and pain and agony and tears HAVE AN END.

Its the opposite of what is taught where they say that those very things will continue on forever in a place sustained BY God.

But at the end even the hardests of sinners will be made whole and have all their tears wiped away.

But they can never enter the city. They were not among the ones who "Took care of busines" on the way to court.

They had to pay it all in full to the last stripe..

And this includes christians who dont do what the Lord asked..they get the SAME punishment as the "Unbeleivers"

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

There is no discrimination made here.

A Christian who treats his fellows badly will get the SAME punishment even if he did "Beleive"

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Notice it didnt say "INFINITE" Stripes but "Many".

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So once again He is clearly saying that there IS AN END and a LIMIT to how one paid their debt and that "Christians" who are ratbags to others get the SAME punishment in the SAME place as the "UNBELEIVERS"...who of course get FEWER stripes because they DID NOT KNOW.

But christians teach it to mean..once again the OPPOSITE

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with INFINITE stripes.

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with INFINITE STRIPES as well. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But Why did Jesus die you may ask if everyone "Repents" at the end??

He died so you would not HAVE to experience the second death.

If you want to experience it..and it probably wont be fun..keep preaching fear and terror..you know..the very OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught.

Read the post again..see what HE TAUGHT!

And if you do..you will realise that NOT EVERYONE gets to HEAVEN..as Heaven IS the New Jerusalem.

The ones that had to die the "Second death" ..are forever denied entrance or any authority in the Kindom.

They themselves are saved..but they sure did SUFFER LOSS..and will hold themselves in "Everlasting" contempt..for being so foolish as to have NOT done things the easy way when they had the chance.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Notice it said "ANY MAN"..no discrimination here again.

Notice the "FIRE"?..Thats his PURE LOVE..and it will BURN UP DROSS..and everything NOT DONE in love will BURN.

But the person..even if they were evil to the core..will lose EVERYTHING..ALL rewards..but they themselves WILL be saved..but,,are never allowed into the city..EVER.[/
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


whateverwhateverwhateverbsmeter2
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 47266211
Germany
09/22/2013 07:11 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Eternal torture for the 666'ers is a fact. Those who accept the anti-christ's, the false messiah's mark of the beast will be tormented in the worst manner possible for all eternity.
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2013 07:46 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
Its all here in black and white.

If you say this is not true you are calling jesus a LIAR.

Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.


Notice he said "TILL" the debt was paid...clearly stating that it COULD and WOULD be paid.

Christians teach it to mean..

Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, and even after he should pay all that was due unto him he would never be let out and writhe in torture forever..

And again he said.

Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

So what it means is to work things out NOW while you have life and an easy chance to do so.

Otherwise if you dont deal with things now while its "Easy" to do so, you will have to pay for it the hard way.

But notice he still menationed it was "UNTIL" the last farthing was paid, and that he would NOT get out "UNTIL" it was paid in full.

In other words there is a limit to the the price you pay commesurate with what you owed.

But christians teach it like this.


Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, And even after you have paid you will never get out.

They like to teach the exact opposite to what Jesus said.

Its very clear.

How can anyone miss it??

But it sells books and makes money and keeps everyone in contant fear and easlily controlled.

The LAKE OF FIRE is NOT torture..its LOVE!!!!

Like flame melts the coldest of ice the lake of fire will melt and soften even the hardest of hearts.

There you will be surrounded by pure love and holiness.

This would be torment to a dark and evil heart and there they remail till all the evil in them is burt away.

Evil is death. Thats why death gets destroyed in the lake.

It cannot survive pure love.

So those in the lake will face the results of every evil action they ever committed and they will wail and gansh their teeth, as they feel the pain they caused others but not in "Revenge" state as is taught, but in a "Corrective" state.

They will finally understand at last their true state and that they are loved so deeply that they will be ashamed and eventually be purified of all their evil.

Im not talking about the catholic "Purgatory" where they are tortured for tortures sake in sadistic ways.

Its more like they get flooded and saturated by pure love itself and in their final understanding of what Love is they have all their hate and evil burnt out of them.

Because it happens in the PRESENCE of the LAMB (So much for it being a SEPERATION from him)


Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,(WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT CORRECTION NOT POITNLESS CRUELTY) which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Death dies because evil dies.

What is left at the end is just themselves...finally repentant and educated in the ways of mercy and love..all their hate and evil destroyed.\

The price they pay for doing things the "Hard" way is they hold themselves in everlasting contempt and shame and are never allowed into the holy city.

The will forever be on the "Outside" looking in.

But in no way screaming in torture forever.

Instead at the end when all is said and done every one of them will bow before their creator and confess "Jesus is Lord" and mean it because to do so they will have "Learnt: rightousness and been granted the Holy Spirit in order to be able to make that confession.

And that confession will be to the "Glory" of the Father.

How can the father get much "Glory" if they are all making that Meaningful heartfelt confession if they arew doing so under torture and duress?

IN the end LOVE wins because it cant LOSE.

It never fails.

And according to scripture..

Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

om_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

AND..they CANT make this confession UNLESS..

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

And to HAVE the Holy Ghost requires REPENTANCE..

And therefore ALL who confess this AT the end MUST have God dwelling iN them DUE to repentance..

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

In other words they paid the last farthing..have learnt their lesson..have repented and are now able to make this confession and mean it.

Those whose names were not found written in the book of life and had to die the "Second death" were never allowed into the city..

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And after they have paid the last farthing in the lake of the fire of His pure love he will..

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

So sorrow and pain and agony and tears HAVE AN END.

Its the opposite of what is taught where they say that those very things will continue on forever in a place sustained BY God.

But at the end even the hardests of sinners will be made whole and have all their tears wiped away.

But they can never enter the city. They were not among the ones who "Took care of busines" on the way to court.

They had to pay it all in full to the last stripe..

And this includes christians who dont do what the Lord asked..they get the SAME punishment as the "Unbeleivers"

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

There is no discrimination made here.

A Christian who treats his fellows badly will get the SAME punishment even if he did "Beleive"

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Notice it didnt say "INFINITE" Stripes but "Many".

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So once again He is clearly saying that there IS AN END and a LIMIT to how one paid their debt and that "Christians" who are ratbags to others get the SAME punishment in the SAME place as the "UNBELEIVERS"...who of course get FEWER stripes because they DID NOT KNOW.

But christians teach it to mean..once again the OPPOSITE

Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with INFINITE stripes.

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with INFINITE STRIPES as well. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But Why did Jesus die you may ask if everyone "Repents" at the end??

He died so you would not HAVE to experience the second death.

If you want to experience it..and it probably wont be fun..keep preaching fear and terror..you know..the very OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught.

Read the post again..see what HE TAUGHT!

And if you do..you will realise that NOT EVERYONE gets to HEAVEN..as Heaven IS the New Jerusalem.

The ones that had to die the "Second death" ..are forever denied entrance or any authority in the Kindom.

They themselves are saved..but they sure did SUFFER LOSS..and will hold themselves in "Everlasting" contempt..for being so foolish as to have NOT done things the easy way when they had the chance.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Notice it said "ANY MAN"..no discrimination here again.

Notice the "FIRE"?..Thats his PURE LOVE..and it will BURN UP DROSS..and everything NOT DONE in love will BURN.

But the person..even if they were evil to the core..will lose EVERYTHING..ALL rewards..but they themselves WILL be saved..but,,are never allowed into the city..EVER.[/
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


whateverwhateverwhateverbsmeter2
 Quoting: david07


Hell screamers HATE what jesus taught.

And you can tell that because they curse and spit JUST like the pharisees before them at anyone who brings it up..

Thread: Christian LOVE at its finets..brought to you by the HELL screamers.

Prepare to be SICK^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 47275705
Australia
09/24/2013 09:21 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
The modern Christian

1)First ya have to say a sinners prayer.

2)Then you have to go to church three times a week(At least)..each time giving ten percent of whats in your wallet to the fat dude up the front who drives luxury cars and lives in a mansion.

3)Then you have to learn to hate everyone else thats NOT a fundie seeing them as doomed and not worth your trouble to love or help or feed..as ALL your time and money gets dedicated to the fat greedy pastor up the front..

4)After a while you have to learn to HATE all other fundies or denominations with a PASSION and see THEM as wrong and DOOMED as well..if they so much as disagree with your denominations view on what day to worship..or what to eat..or the rapture debate..or even if adam had a belly button. (Ive seen churches coime apart over this..seriously)

5)You also must LOOK like the world...dress like the world..act like the world...set your church up to look like a rock concert hall..and fornicate and divorce and sleep around with all the women in the church..all the while condemning others of the world who do this. In short..you have to be as CLOSE as possible to what the world IS..but EXCUSE all your "Sins" with the "Im not perfect..just forgiven CRAP"

After doing all of this..THEN..you just might..according to THEM..be worthy of heaven.

THEN...if you do what THEY do (FORGET what they SAY..if you DO what THEY do)..you will feel offended by simple truths like this....

I remember reading in there somewhere where Jesus was having trouble with the puffed up pharisees..who JUST like todays modern so called "Christians"..were giving him a hard time over “doctrinal” issues..and he said to them..something like..

"The drunkards and the prostitutes and the tax men swindlers will get into the kingdom before you."

From what I can ascertain from it..its the ORDINARY "Sinners" who Jesus was referring to who would be more WORTHY of the kingdom then the pharisitical religious ones of the day.

I suppose its because its better to be an HONEST sinner than a DISHONEST lying saint in the end.

God will save according to whats on the heart..ACCORDING to the bible..JESUS own words..yep..he SAID it...

Something about sheep and goats...one lot GAVE a toss about others...and another lot DID NOT..

It said NOTHING about "Did you say a prayer and accept Jesus into you heart"..THAT rubbish aint even IN the Bible..id LOVE to know where they got the "Sinners prayer" GARBAGE from..cause it just aint IN there.

NO..from what JESUS himself actually SAID...its sheep..or its GOATS..right?..and WHAT was the DIFFERENCE between these sheep and goats??

ON the surface..NO difference..BOTH lots claimed "Salvation"....and BOTH used his name..and did miracles..and this and that IN Jesus name..

..so WHY were ONE lot sheep..and the OTHER lot GOATS?????

BECAUSE..ONE lot was UNSELFISH..CARING..VISITED POOR DUDES IN PRISON..CLOTHED THE NAKED...GAVE TO THE POOR AND NEEDY..AND ASKED NOTHING IN RETURN..they were HUMBLE..and POLITE and full of LOVE.

The GOATS..SAID all the "RIGHT" words...they SPOKE the LINGO..but they just DID NOT GIVE a FLYING @&^$ about ANYONE but themselves. They spent their time debating and arguing and BEING WRONG..YEAR AFTER YEAR..and they did NOT feed anyone..or do any GOOD for anyone..they just DID NOT CARE about ANYone but THEMSELVES...

And if these goats DID do something..cause they all said something like "But Lord..we did many miracles in your name..and cast out demons and stuff..AD NAUSEUM.."

They did it FOR SELFISH GAIN..to be NOTICED....or to make LOTS OF MONEY from MOVIES and BOOKS and NEW AGE GARBAGE like the "LEFT BEHIND" series which made MILLIONS..while the poor and the needy STARVED AND DIED!..they have ZERO Love..ZERO humility..and STUFF ALL COURAGE...they IGNORE the POOR..live in multi million dollar MANSIONS.

While SO many are STARVING..NEW AGE WOLVES like COPELAND and HINN and DUPLANTIS and that DOLLAR viper..live like KINGS on the MONEY they BILKED AND CONNED out of the "NEW AGE SHEEP....who followed so BLINDLY that lakeland CRAP which was the EPITOME of UTTER HIPOCRISY...

What does Jesus say to these NEW AGE "BELIEVERS" EH???

DEPART from me ye WORKERS of utter GARBAGE AND LIES....cause I NEVER KNEW YOU...

Jesus said something about VOMITING these greedy self serving creatures out of his mouth.

Week after week you turn up..hand over all your money for new seats and screens and better air con..while the poor and the hungry just down the road STARVE!!!

While the fat assed pastor..fat gutted and lazy..preaches about FASTING??...and MORE money..and MORE money..for the never ending BUILDING program that all churches seem to have.

STUFF the poor..WHO CARES about the needy..and TOUGH LUCK for the people of the world..cause they are all gonna BURN right??

ALL YOU have to do is keep turning up with wallet OPEN..and BRAIN disengaged..to feed the never ending circle of NEW AGE EASY LISTENING FLESH PLEASING GARBAGE..GIVE to get...get PISSED on the holy spirit..ALWAYS about FEELING GOOD..SELF SELF SELF..always thinking of your SELF!!!

This lot ONLY care about what THEY can get..they dont give a flying *#$% about the hurting,,the needy...the downtrodden..you FLY IN THE FACE OF EVERYTHING JESUS EVER TAUGHT!!!

IN the name of MONEY!!!

MONEY and FEELINGS is their GOD!!!!

"BUt but..we give money to the poor"....they might say..

WHAT OF IT??

They DO it ONLY to win a few more BROWNIE POINTS...they DONT do it cause you really CARE!!!!..they do it ONLY so they have a better chance of being raptured..or getting some reward..or feeling better..or being blessed more..

THEYJUST DONT CARE!!!...and when they DO..its all a NEW AGE FEEL GOOD "BLESS ME BLESS ME" SHOW!!

They have turned the TRUTH into a way to FEEL GOOD..ESCAPE DOOM..and MAKE MONEY..and GET BLESSED!!!

THEY DONT KNOW ANYTHING EXCEPT what THEY WANT to hear..and they KNOW ONLY WHAT THEY HEARD!!

They WILL ignore everything I am saying now FOR THIS REASON!!

They will READ this...and say "THATS NOT ME..I DONT DO THAT!!

Well...every time they walk into a church and open their wallets up..

THEY DO!!


THEY FEED THE MACHINE..the money making machine..IDOLATRY!!!!

WHEN will these new age easy road zero suffering fat lazy so called christians realise its NOT A GAME!!!

ITS NOT a "BLESS ME FEEL GOOD CLUB"

But thats how its TREATED.

I went to these churches,, ..for the last 40 years..ive seen em all slide into HELL..thinking they are OH so HOLY..and going to heaven.

WHAT JOKE its become...

And they will ALWAYS EXCUSE this with..

"WE ARE NOT PERFECT..JUST FORGIVEN"

WHAT a lot of GARBAGE,,a SELF justifying concience excusing load of UTTER CRAP!!


THEN....if you keep following along the same lines as the modern christian..the following rant will APPLY TO YOU TOO..wont that be great??...(Ill actually use SCRIPTURE to back this up..the words of JESUS HIMSELF...which MOST of them TOTALLY DISREGARD..cause they like to do their OWN thing WAY too much...

MATTHEW 23
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Yeah..this lot LOVES to preach a whole lot of HIPOCRITICAL CONDEMING SOUL TEARING MIND NUMBING CRAP which turns people AWAY from the TRUE way...with smooth deceptive words and well worded sermons designed to feed their WALLETS..and make MILLIONS from the endless LIES of TWISTED SCRIPTURE(The left behind movies and books)....

WHY wont they do what he SAYS?..They wont enter in THEMSELVES..and by their UTTERLY ABOMINABLE BEHAVIOUR AND EXAMPLE...no one ELSE wants to either because they LOOK at these pathetic easy living cowardly liars and think..RIGHTLY SO..that CHRISTIANS are NOTHING BUT A PACK OF ARGUING SELF CENTERED GREEDY ADULTEROUS LYING HYPOCRITES


14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Yeah..they just LOVE the OH SO HOLY prayers..babbling away in tongues and blaspheming the holy spirit with their UTTER ABOMINATIONS (Getting DRUNK on the holy spirit)..THIS according to THE BIBLE is what they do..USING something HOLY to make MONEY..is BLASHEMY..and using the holy spirit to promote your MONEY MAKING LIES is BLASPHEMY against the HOLY SPIRIT...ACCORDING to THEIR OWN BIBLE...they DO feed on widows houses..they rake in offerings year after year..from old widows who are too weak to resist the SNARES you set..SHAME on them...these pathetic LIFE destroying VIPERS!!

But wait,,,there is MORE.....

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Yeah..they do this too..seeking ever more victims...who start out as ordinary people...they prey on their fear..their terror..with stories of DOOM and HELLFIRE..you convert them..and then turn THEM TOO..into the SAME brand of UTTER HIPOCRITES AS THEM!!!

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


Yeah,,they LOVE to rake ya tithes in dont they??..they ONLY pay it to get BLESSED..its all based on GREED and SELFISHNESS.IF they really GAVE a toss about anyone but themselves..they would GIVE that money to the POOR and the HUNGRY..BUT NO..they give it to these SWINDLERS to put new STAGES and SCREENS in their churches..to buy in the latest christian ROCK BAND..so they can ACT just like the WORLD they always CONDEMN....


BUT the list of your SHAME goes ON..(I could write a BOOK on their long trail of HIPOCRISY..)

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Yeah..they LOVE to turn up to church..all spiffy looking..all smiles...but within its all pure HELL..as they battle with the FACADE..hoping the REAL human they are deep inside does not SHOW..as they battle with LUST and ANGER..and HATE..and all the while jealousy and envy grows..and greed..and slander....while church after church falls apart as minister after minister is caught YET again with their cock frimly planted in the vagina of a woman who is NOT THEIRS...HINN..SWAGGART..all of em..BENTLY..what a total FARCE you vipers are...and you know what????ONE common DENOMINATOR among all of these CHARLATANS???.....MONEY MONEY GREED AND MORE MONEY..and ADULTERY

BUT the list goes ON.....

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

They look all clean..but inside they are DIRTY LUSTFUL COWARDLY SELFISH VIPERS.

And THIS according to THE BIBLE..is WHAT Jesus is gonna DO to LIARS LIKE THEM....

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the HYPOCRITES: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the LAKE which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Let me break this down a bit so these heartless vipers can FINALLY understand it eh??


8 But the fearful,

(YEP..thats THE NEW AGE CHRISTIAN RAPTURE ADDICTS..always AFRAID and wanting to get OUTTA here while everyone else BURNS

and unbelieving,

(Yep..thats this lot TOO..cause if they actually BELIEVED the bible like they SAY they do..they would NOT be such a bunch of loveless lying hipocritical LIARS)

and the abominable,

(Yes..thats this lot too..their behaviour towards their brothers and the rest of the world is just ABOMINABLE!...an ABOMINATION!!

and murderers,

(HOW many widows have died in their homes..MURDERED by their lack of funds for more medicine because THEY conned them out of their money??..or told sick people to STOP taking their medicine because if they did NOT they lacked FATH and God would not heal them..PURE rubbish and LIES..they are WORSE than JWS refusing blood to dying children in need of a blood transfusion)

and whoremongers,

(Yep..how many of them secretly sleep around..or lust after women or men in their heart?..whoreing after flesh or money..or gain..THIS is what it means..a deep endless lusting to GRATIFY THEMSELVES)

and sorcerers,

(AHH yes..the MAIN one that the pastors of these illuminati NEW AGE CON artists love..sorcery..beguiling with words..using the "Anointing" like a drug..when its ALL just a manufactured atmosphere brought about to BEWITCH and SWINDLE..and THIS is what it means)

and idolaters,

(Idolatry..the modern churches FAVOURITE passtime..they worship WORSHIP..and FEELINGS..and PEOPLE..and MONEY..and BOOKS..and MOVIES..seems they idolise ANYTHING..but GOD..what a bunchh of UTTER AND TOTAL LIARS)

and all liars,shall have their part in the LAKE which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

SELF explainatory is it NOT?)

8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Need I say more???
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2013 09:55 PM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
There is a hell, and Jesus saved me from it.
Anonymous Coward
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09/25/2013 01:08 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
There is a hell, and Jesus saved me from it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34104390


He saved you from a place he created to throw you into for being created by him in the first place?

Did you ask to be born?

No..

Did you choose your parents..

NO..

DID you choose to have a sin nature..

NO..

So..he didnt save you FROM hell..he saved you from HIMSLEF...going by YOUR logic.
Anonymous Coward
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09/27/2013 04:51 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
...


Its day and night..I thought there was NO day and night after the millenium.

And "forevers and evers" is senseless grammar...the actual words in that passage say the "age of the ages"..THE millenium.

"Forevers and evers" makes no sense.

But then half the stuff that has to be twisted out of all recognition to turn God into a sadistic merciless torturing monster who will spend eternity tomenting most of his creation would have to make NO sense..unless it was in a twisted sadistic satanic sort of way.

But thats whats happenned.

And I notice no one has addressed most of what I wrote ..like how they turned the GOD OF LOVE into a GOD OF MERCILESS SPITE FILLED REVENGE..utterly twisating those passage about what LOVE IS to suit THEIR satanic opposite..you know..all the sorts of mannerisms one would EXPECT from a VERY dark creature..

But then thats what the deception really is isnt it??

To turn the most loving compassionae giving and forgiving being who owns runs and maintains all of creation into a heartless beast.

And christians BUY it...bothe mentally and with LOTS of CASH..HELL SELLS because FEAR SELLS...and as a result they become what they think God is..thus their pride and hate and arrogance and constant condemnation of all those who do not bow to them or their point of view...much like they think God is..who they say and teach will torture without mercy in the most horrifically and satanic way possible ALL those who do not bow to HIS.

But really..its just satans point of view they asre pushing..because their fruit gives them away.

Debunk failed..if anything..you have only called jesus a liar because I also notice you did not even attempt to address his own words which debunks what YOU teach.

Why?

Its because you cant.

No one can gainsay the SON OF GOD!

Especially not hell bent accusing christians who are yet to realise their God LOVES them and is NOT a monster..

But keep looking..and start thinking..because you have been TRICKED..TERRIBLY!

BREAK FREE.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


I see you completely ignore the second verse, I presented:

Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Notice the exact same Greek word, eternal, is used before life and punishment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32161378


It actually means "Age lasting"..the age of the ages.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


The Greek word, used for eternal punishment is aionios.

Get a Greek dictionary, the word, can have three meanings:

1) eternal
2) everlasting
3) forever

It's not "age lasting."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32161378


what is the second death then, if it is not eternal? Is it not a punishment. And yes, those who are not dead in Christ, might just by default be 'dead in Satan' (for he is not destroyed yet in the lake of fire, with death and hades), which might be not like dreamless sleep at all. Would Satan let you sleep?..
LightOfChrist
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09/27/2013 05:21 AM
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Re: Jesus did NOT teach eternal torture. IN fact he taught the very OPPOSITE of what christians teach about hell.
It's really pretty simple. After we die in this life, we wake up into reality. When we are there, we are overcome with all the pain that we have ever given to others.

It's only when we are clean from the evils that we have done, that we can move on.

Everything else said by all the religions in the world, is just to give people power and control over you in this life.
 Quoting: samanthasunflower


Well...Jesus did say "You reap what you sow"

Either now in this life or in the one after it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46817390


Thou is correct in part this is how it works, the underworld of Hades is were most go whom die in their sins and whom most will go whom has lived on earth, the valley of the dead siteth before it and mankind calls it earth. Each shall spend a time in underworlds of Hades according to what they have sow, but for some whom have done greater evils they shall fall also into the lake of fire. Now do not underestimate the suffering that occurs in both these places it is hell but it is not the greatest of Hell and is a temporary imprisonment. The suffering on earth can not compare to the suffering in underworld but yet again nor can suffering of lake of fire compare to suffering of underworld, but greatest suffering is known as the Outer Darkness which cometh by the second death. The underworld and lake of fire in time they can be released due to atonement but the outer darkness once taken is forever the atonement does not apply, the outer darkness is beyond even the comprehension of Hades and is their final resting place as a consequence to continuously choosing evil without repentance.

So indeed some of hell is temporary and the greater of Hell at final judgement is forever, but few will enter that one for it is not Gods will all are lost forever even murders can be forgiven in eons. If thou spent one second in even underworld you would be terrified and in great pain. Do all you can to avoid falling beyond the land of the dead.





GLP