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BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 12:13 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
I was going to invest in bitcoin this week, but I decided I wanted a more stable investment, so I put my life savings on the Redskins winning the super bowl.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 12:13 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Money is a complete mental construct. Gold and Silver is actually worthless, it's the value placed on them by human minds that gives them their value; it turns a worthless hunk of metal into something "shiney".

Anything can be turned into something shiney, including notched wooden sticks used in Europe for money. Worthless paper is used as something shiney all over the world.

Therefore bitcoin is no different. It can be made into something shiney if the human mind sees it as such.

Contrary to common belief, what is known as the collective consciousness can make bitcoin into something valuable for trade if we will it as such, no matter WHAT the central banks or corporations use. The only reason they don't like bitcoin is because it is something they do not control.
kingbirdfivezero

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12/07/2013 12:14 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!

 Quoting: jimmydrive


Yep, it's comments like this which make me feel that Bitcoins are not such a wise investment. The other thing too is that Bitcoins are a digital currency -- pretty much like the US dollar is (with all the Fed printing going on) -- so it has nothing on physical gold or silver...
damned
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 12:21 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Bitcoin is fiat. It's even more fiat than the USD. At least the USD has to be printed with a machine out of actual paper. I can't believe there's more than a few people on this site who have faith in bitcoin. That's scary. There's nothing to learn from people here. I'm done with this fucking website.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 01:43 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Money is a complete mental construct. Gold and Silver is actually worthless, it's the value placed on them by human minds that gives them their value; it turns a worthless hunk of metal into something "shiney".

Anything can be turned into something shiney, including notched wooden sticks used in Europe for money. Worthless paper is used as something shiney all over the world.

Therefore bitcoin is no different. It can be made into something shiney if the human mind sees it as such.

Contrary to common belief, what is known as the collective consciousness can make bitcoin into something valuable for trade if we will it as such, no matter WHAT the central banks or corporations use. The only reason they don't like bitcoin is because it is something they do not control.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Ridiculous statement. Silver, in particular, has thousands of industrial uses, and its current manipulated futures contract paper price is below the true mining/production cost.

What true value can a string of encrypted electronic bits have? At least you can burn fiat paper currency to release a few BTUs of energy.

So many people have lost their grip on reality, and can no longer recognize an illusion when it is presented to them as a solution to their problems.

Gold and silver have represented a store of wealth/value for more than 5000 years. Will you dispute that?
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 01:52 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Bitcoin is fiat. It's even more fiat than the USD. At least the USD has to be printed with a machine out of actual paper. I can't believe there's more than a few people on this site who have faith in bitcoin. That's scary. There's nothing to learn from people here. I'm done with this fucking website.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47142807


Fiat has been used as money for thousands of years, it's what the workers who built giant cathedrals in Europe were paid with. It is DEBT money that is bad, money like federal reserve notes. Watch Bill Still's excellent documentary Secret of OZ.

Money is a construct of the human mind, and you can easily see this by simply observing that money DOES NOT EXIST in nature. Birds don't use it. Monkeys don't use it. It is actually a religious talisman, belief in money is belief in a God that does not exist. That includes Fiat AND Debt money, as well as gold and silver. They are all creations of the human mind. Your BELIEF in it is what gives money the power it has.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 01:54 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
I was going to invest in bitcoin this week, but I decided I wanted a more stable investment, so I put my life savings on the Redskins winning the super bowl.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47142807


lmao
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 01:55 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Bitcoin is fiat. It's even more fiat than the USD. At least the USD has to be printed with a machine out of actual paper. I can't believe there's more than a few people on this site who have faith in bitcoin. That's scary. There's nothing to learn from people here. I'm done with this fucking website.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47142807


Fiat has been used as money for thousands of years, it's what the workers who built giant cathedrals in Europe were paid with. It is DEBT money that is bad, money like federal reserve notes. Watch Bill Still's excellent documentary Secret of OZ.

Money is a construct of the human mind, and you can easily see this by simply observing that money DOES NOT EXIST in nature. Birds don't use it. Monkeys don't use it. It is actually a religious talisman, belief in money is belief in a God that does not exist. That includes Fiat AND Debt money, as well as gold and silver. They are all creations of the human mind. Your BELIEF in it is what gives money the power it has.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Money is bad, mmmmkay.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 01:56 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Bitcoin is fiat. It's even more fiat than the USD. At least the USD has to be printed with a machine out of actual paper. I can't believe there's more than a few people on this site who have faith in bitcoin. That's scary. There's nothing to learn from people here. I'm done with this fucking website.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47142807


Angry. You went against my advise and bought bitcoin didn't you?
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 01:58 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Money is a complete mental construct. Gold and Silver is actually worthless, it's the value placed on them by human minds that gives them their value; it turns a worthless hunk of metal into something "shiney".

Anything can be turned into something shiney, including notched wooden sticks used in Europe for money. Worthless paper is used as something shiney all over the world.

Therefore bitcoin is no different. It can be made into something shiney if the human mind sees it as such.

Contrary to common belief, what is known as the collective consciousness can make bitcoin into something valuable for trade if we will it as such, no matter WHAT the central banks or corporations use. The only reason they don't like bitcoin is because it is something they do not control.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Ridiculous statement. Silver, in particular, has thousands of industrial uses, and its current manipulated futures contract paper price is below the true mining/production cost.

What true value can a string of encrypted electronic bits have? At least you can burn fiat paper currency to release a few BTUs of energy.

So many people have lost their grip on reality, and can no longer recognize an illusion when it is presented to them as a solution to their problems.

Gold and silver have represented a store of wealth/value for more than 5000 years. Will you dispute that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50033102


So does wood. So does plastic. You don't use wooden Indian nickels do you?

Money is fiction, it is a creation of the human mind. That's why federal reserve notes are colored green by its banker creators, because green is the color of nature. They are trying to get you to see it as something natural. They know it is not natural, otherwise why go through the trouble? Stop believing in something that does not exist.

Money means ONE EYE - mono+eye = money.

That's what it means. It is appealing to your higher consciousness state, the merging of left and right hemispheres of the human brain into a single state, of seeing.

Even the word you call this piece of fiction should clue you into its real meaning. Your BELIEF in it gives money the power it has over your life. If the collective consciousness would stop believing in it, the power it has would come to an end.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 01:59 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Bitcoin is down to $545 now - just like I predicted after the central banks become involved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50721961


Do you think it will crash or can we buy low now then sell once its high again?
 Quoting: The Worlds Enemy


Have you heard the phrase "A fool and his money are soon parted".
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 02:07 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Bitcoin is down to $545 now - just like I predicted after the central banks become involved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50721961


Do you think it will crash or can we buy low now then sell once its high again?
 Quoting: The Worlds Enemy


Have you heard the phrase "A fool and his money are soon parted".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20110491


Bitcoin was purposely made volatile for the purposes of preventing companies and institutional investors from acquiring it.

When you can make it go way up and then go way down, it screws up accounting books and causes losses on these investors, deterring them from buying and investing in it.

If you are Telsa Car Company, and you sell your Telsa cars for bitcoin, you sell a car for 50 bitcoins now worth 1300 dollars each, then that bitcoin falls to 500 in 2 to three days, you lost tons of money one the sale of that car. Now you will think twice before selling for bitcoin again.

That was the goal, and that is why the Chinese corps are not using it, or stopped using it if they did.

It was a strategy that worked admirably. The debt money creators, the central bank owners, did not get to where they are today by being stupid.

Now the only question that remains is what YOU are going to do about it? Go to using central bank debt money? Good luck with that.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 02:18 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Money is a complete mental construct. Gold and Silver is actually worthless, it's the value placed on them by human minds that gives them their value; it turns a worthless hunk of metal into something "shiney".

Anything can be turned into something shiney, including notched wooden sticks used in Europe for money. Worthless paper is used as something shiney all over the world.

Therefore bitcoin is no different. It can be made into something shiney if the human mind sees it as such.

Contrary to common belief, what is known as the collective consciousness can make bitcoin into something valuable for trade if we will it as such, no matter WHAT the central banks or corporations use. The only reason they don't like bitcoin is because it is something they do not control.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Ridiculous statement. Silver, in particular, has thousands of industrial uses, and its current manipulated futures contract paper price is below the true mining/production cost.

What true value can a string of encrypted electronic bits have? At least you can burn fiat paper currency to release a few BTUs of energy.

So many people have lost their grip on reality, and can no longer recognize an illusion when it is presented to them as a solution to their problems.

Gold and silver have represented a store of wealth/value for more than 5000 years. Will you dispute that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50033102


So does wood. So does plastic. You don't use wooden Indian nickels do you?

Money is fiction, it is a creation of the human mind. That's why federal reserve notes are colored green by its banker creators, because green is the color of nature. They are trying to get you to see it as something natural. They know it is not natural, otherwise why go through the trouble? Stop believing in something that does not exist.

Money means ONE EYE - mono+eye = money.

That's what it means. It is appealing to your higher consciousness state, the merging of left and right hemispheres of the human brain into a single state, of seeing.

Even the word you call this piece of fiction should clue you into its real meaning. Your BELIEF in it gives money the power it has over your life. If the collective consciousness would stop believing in it, the power it has would come to an end.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Wood rots, plus it literally grows on trees, therefore its supply is virtually unlimited.

Ditto with plastic - derived from oil which can even be vegetable in origin.

Gold and silver have remained a store of value because their supplies are limited, they cannot be counterfeited and they are both durable and divisible.

Some of us have chosen to recognize this 5000 year reality, and act on this information by converting savings denominated in fiat paper debt instruments into physical precious metal bullion.

This simple process tends to ease concerns about one's ability to feed, clothe and house a family when faced with an uncertain global financial future.

Not rocket science.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 02:20 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Thread: Bitcoin: The real story


catfilenails
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 02:25 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Money is a complete mental construct. Gold and Silver is actually worthless, it's the value placed on them by human minds that gives them their value; it turns a worthless hunk of metal into something "shiney".

Anything can be turned into something shiney, including notched wooden sticks used in Europe for money. Worthless paper is used as something shiney all over the world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The history of Gold/Silver as money goes back better than 6,000 years.

A 6,000 year history is better than a few years of BitchCoin, or paper fiat currency.

With regard to the notched sticks? I believe the notched sticks were redeemable in Gold.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 02:32 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Money is a complete mental construct. Gold and Silver is actually worthless, it's the value placed on them by human minds that gives them their value; it turns a worthless hunk of metal into something "shiney".

Anything can be turned into something shiney, including notched wooden sticks used in Europe for money. Worthless paper is used as something shiney all over the world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The history of Gold/Silver as money goes back better than 6,000 years.

A 6,000 year history is better than a few years of BitchCoin, or paper fiat currency.

With regard to the notched sticks? I believe the notched sticks were redeemable in Gold.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51202222


Correct. They were called 'Tally Sticks'.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 02:32 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Money is a complete mental construct. Gold and Silver is actually worthless, it's the value placed on them by human minds that gives them their value; it turns a worthless hunk of metal into something "shiney".

Anything can be turned into something shiney, including notched wooden sticks used in Europe for money. Worthless paper is used as something shiney all over the world.

Therefore bitcoin is no different. It can be made into something shiney if the human mind sees it as such.

Contrary to common belief, what is known as the collective consciousness can make bitcoin into something valuable for trade if we will it as such, no matter WHAT the central banks or corporations use. The only reason they don't like bitcoin is because it is something they do not control.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Ridiculous statement. Silver, in particular, has thousands of industrial uses, and its current manipulated futures contract paper price is below the true mining/production cost.

What true value can a string of encrypted electronic bits have? At least you can burn fiat paper currency to release a few BTUs of energy.

So many people have lost their grip on reality, and can no longer recognize an illusion when it is presented to them as a solution to their problems.

Gold and silver have represented a store of wealth/value for more than 5000 years. Will you dispute that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50033102


So does wood. So does plastic. You don't use wooden Indian nickels do you?

Money is fiction, it is a creation of the human mind. That's why federal reserve notes are colored green by its banker creators, because green is the color of nature. They are trying to get you to see it as something natural. They know it is not natural, otherwise why go through the trouble? Stop believing in something that does not exist.

Money means ONE EYE - mono+eye = money.

That's what it means. It is appealing to your higher consciousness state, the merging of left and right hemispheres of the human brain into a single state, of seeing.

Even the word you call this piece of fiction should clue you into its real meaning. Your BELIEF in it gives money the power it has over your life. If the collective consciousness would stop believing in it, the power it has would come to an end.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Wood rots, plus it literally grows on trees, therefore its supply is virtually unlimited.

Ditto with plastic - derived from oil which can even be vegetable in origin.

Gold and silver have remained a store of value because their supplies are limited, they cannot be counterfeited and they are both durable and divisible.

Some of us have chosen to recognize this 5000 year reality, and act on this information by converting savings denominated in fiat paper debt instruments into physical precious metal bullion.

This simple process tends to ease concerns about one's ability to feed, clothe and house a family when faced with an uncertain global financial future.

Not rocket science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


Both wood and plastic have been used and ARE used for money.

Ever heard of Tally sticks? Wood sticks were used as money in England for hundreds of years.

PAPER is used as money, and paper comes from what? Wood.

All this should tell you one thing: Your mind gives these things their value, not what they are made of.

Yes, you can point to gold and silver as a "store of value" for thousands of years. All it really is is the human mind has placed value on it for thousands of years. The metal in and of itself is nothing but a gleam of shine. Want to know why it has value? Look into yourself.

The same collective consciousness that gave value to wooden tally sticks, gives value to gold.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 02:36 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
...


Ridiculous statement. Silver, in particular, has thousands of industrial uses, and its current manipulated futures contract paper price is below the true mining/production cost.

What true value can a string of encrypted electronic bits have? At least you can burn fiat paper currency to release a few BTUs of energy.

So many people have lost their grip on reality, and can no longer recognize an illusion when it is presented to them as a solution to their problems.

Gold and silver have represented a store of wealth/value for more than 5000 years. Will you dispute that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50033102


So does wood. So does plastic. You don't use wooden Indian nickels do you?

Money is fiction, it is a creation of the human mind. That's why federal reserve notes are colored green by its banker creators, because green is the color of nature. They are trying to get you to see it as something natural. They know it is not natural, otherwise why go through the trouble? Stop believing in something that does not exist.

Money means ONE EYE - mono+eye = money.

That's what it means. It is appealing to your higher consciousness state, the merging of left and right hemispheres of the human brain into a single state, of seeing.

Even the word you call this piece of fiction should clue you into its real meaning. Your BELIEF in it gives money the power it has over your life. If the collective consciousness would stop believing in it, the power it has would come to an end.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Wood rots, plus it literally grows on trees, therefore its supply is virtually unlimited.

Ditto with plastic - derived from oil which can even be vegetable in origin.

Gold and silver have remained a store of value because their supplies are limited, they cannot be counterfeited and they are both durable and divisible.

Some of us have chosen to recognize this 5000 year reality, and act on this information by converting savings denominated in fiat paper debt instruments into physical precious metal bullion.

This simple process tends to ease concerns about one's ability to feed, clothe and house a family when faced with an uncertain global financial future.

Not rocket science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


Both wood and plastic have been used and ARE used for money.

Ever heard of Tally sticks? Wood sticks were used as money in England for hundreds of years.

PAPER is used as money, and paper comes from what? Wood.

All this should tell you one thing: Your mind gives these things their value, not what they are made of.

Yes, you can point to gold and silver as a "store of value" for thousands of years. All it really is is the human mind has placed value on it for thousands of years. The metal in and of itself is nothing but a gleam of shine. Want to know why it has value? Look into yourself.

The same collective consciousness that gave value to wooden tally sticks, gives value to gold.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Wrong. Tally sticks were used to represent loans made in ... gold and silver.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 02:47 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Paper and plastic are NOT used as money. They actually represent 'currency', which in the US is denominated in DOLLARS OF DEBT.

Don't make the mistake of using the terms money and currency interchangeably.

All paper-based fiat value exchange systems in the world are debt-based currencies, not a single one of them backed by anything more that blind faith.

True money - gold and silver - has no counter-party claim.

Look it up.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 02:47 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
There was a thread last week about how high bitcoin is, and how its going to be the new world reserve currency eventually. I said bitcoin is a joke and I'd be surprised if it had any value at all in a few years, and that it would crash. People mocked me. Hope all you fags just lost all your money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 47142807


butthurt9


while some of us makes a couple of $1000 yet again..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49760580


Exactly. FUD. bitcoin will change the world and if you listen to the anger and hatred above that's the realm you'll stay in. Just bought my momma a Benz.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 03:14 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Paper and plastic are NOT used as money. They actually represent 'currency', which in the US is denominated in DOLLARS OF DEBT.

Don't make the mistake of using the terms money and currency interchangeably.

All paper-based fiat value exchange systems in the world are debt-based currencies, not a single one of them backed by anything more that blind faith.

True money - gold and silver - has no counter-party claim.

Look it up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


Well, of course wooden tally sticks used by England for hundreds of years had no debt behind it either. Nor did the money used by the Vatican to build Europe's giant cathedrals. It was all NON-DEBT money, unlike the money we use to day. Just like Gold and Silver with no counter-partly claims, right? Fiat can have debt or it can have no debt behind it. Yet people will use it as money either way, this is historically shown.

So it can't be the debt behind it or lack thereof with gives it this power, it has to be people's BELIEF in it.

Of course the average person who pays for his sandwich at subway doesn't see the debt behind the paper he uses to pay for his sandwich, he sees the paper. In his/her mind the PAPER is what has the value, at least at that present moment. His belief in the paper allows him to exchange it with the merchant for the sandwich, and that only happens because the merchant similarly shares his belief.

Hardly anyone thinks about what is behind the currency, except people well versed in these things.

To the banker, who knows the currency has debt behind it, knows this debt is actually a representation of energy obligated and expended by someone else - for the banker's own benefit.

The banker creates this currency, colors it green and names it "money" (one eye, or self actualization) for purposes of creating an aura of value around something that clearly has no value at all.

Then he will use this currency to put others in debt (which could not happen except by threat of government violence via taxation), and those others have to expend energy which makes the banker's life more comfortable. So the banker gets to have a nicer house, and can have sex with lots of pretty women and so on. And that nice house and lots of sex is also a perception of value, isn't it? That's all it is in a nutshell, from the peon to the banker, it is all, ALL about the mind. What it perceives as value or not.

Note that the money - gold, silver, tally sticks, paper, itself has no value at all. Value is a creation of perception.
Space Ghost

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12/07/2013 03:28 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Of course...The TBTB does not want any1 to have a cash advantage when they head underground. Oh,my bad I meant South Africa.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 03:35 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Paper and plastic are NOT used as money. They actually represent 'currency', which in the US is denominated in DOLLARS OF DEBT.

Don't make the mistake of using the terms money and currency interchangeably.

All paper-based fiat value exchange systems in the world are debt-based currencies, not a single one of them backed by anything more that blind faith.

True money - gold and silver - has no counter-party claim.

Look it up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


Well, of course wooden tally sticks used by England for hundreds of years had no debt behind it either. Nor did the money used by the Vatican to build Europe's giant cathedrals. It was all NON-DEBT money, unlike the money we use to day. Just like Gold and Silver with no counter-partly claims, right? Fiat can have debt or it can have no debt behind it. Yet people will use it as money either way, this is historically shown.

So it can't be the debt behind it or lack thereof with gives it this power, it has to be people's BELIEF in it.

Of course the average person who pays for his sandwich at subway doesn't see the debt behind the paper he uses to pay for his sandwich, he sees the paper. In his/her mind the PAPER is what has the value, at least at that present moment. His belief in the paper allows him to exchange it with the merchant for the sandwich, and that only happens because the merchant similarly shares his belief.

Hardly anyone thinks about what is behind the currency, except people well versed in these things.

To the banker, who knows the currency has debt behind it, knows this debt is actually a representation of energy obligated and expended by someone else - for the banker's own benefit.

The banker creates this currency, colors it green and names it "money" (one eye, or self actualization) for purposes of creating an aura of value around something that clearly has no value at all.

Then he will use this currency to put others in debt (which could not happen except by threat of government violence via taxation), and those others have to expend energy which makes the banker's life more comfortable. So the banker gets to have a nicer house, and can have sex with lots of pretty women and so on. And that nice house and lots of sex is also a perception of value, isn't it? That's all it is in a nutshell, from the peon to the banker, it is all, ALL about the mind. What it perceives as value or not.

Note that the money - gold, silver, tally sticks, paper, itself has no value at all. Value is a creation of perception.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Why am I arguing with someone who just doesn't understand the concept of the tally stick?

The tally stick represented a loan (debt) made in gold and silver to the debtor by the creditor. The different number and size of the notches on the stick represented the amount of the loan (debt).

The loan was to repaid to the creditor in gold and silver. As installments were made, the stick was shortened to represent the diminishing amount of the outstanding debt. Eventually the tally stick could be retired - debt paid.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 03:49 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Paper and plastic are NOT used as money. They actually represent 'currency', which in the US is denominated in DOLLARS OF DEBT.

Don't make the mistake of using the terms money and currency interchangeably.

All paper-based fiat value exchange systems in the world are debt-based currencies, not a single one of them backed by anything more that blind faith.

True money - gold and silver - has no counter-party claim.

Look it up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


Well, of course wooden tally sticks used by England for hundreds of years had no debt behind it either. Nor did the money used by the Vatican to build Europe's giant cathedrals. It was all NON-DEBT money, unlike the money we use to day. Just like Gold and Silver with no counter-partly claims, right? Fiat can have debt or it can have no debt behind it. Yet people will use it as money either way, this is historically shown.

So it can't be the debt behind it or lack thereof with gives it this power, it has to be people's BELIEF in it.

Of course the average person who pays for his sandwich at subway doesn't see the debt behind the paper he uses to pay for his sandwich, he sees the paper. In his/her mind the PAPER is what has the value, at least at that present moment. His belief in the paper allows him to exchange it with the merchant for the sandwich, and that only happens because the merchant similarly shares his belief.

Hardly anyone thinks about what is behind the currency, except people well versed in these things.

To the banker, who knows the currency has debt behind it, knows this debt is actually a representation of energy obligated and expended by someone else - for the banker's own benefit.

The banker creates this currency, colors it green and names it "money" (one eye, or self actualization) for purposes of creating an aura of value around something that clearly has no value at all.

Then he will use this currency to put others in debt (which could not happen except by threat of government violence via taxation), and those others have to expend energy which makes the banker's life more comfortable. So the banker gets to have a nicer house, and can have sex with lots of pretty women and so on. And that nice house and lots of sex is also a perception of value, isn't it? That's all it is in a nutshell, from the peon to the banker, it is all, ALL about the mind. What it perceives as value or not.

Note that the money - gold, silver, tally sticks, paper, itself has no value at all. Value is a creation of perception.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Why am I arguing with someone who just doesn't understand the concept of the tally stick?

The tally stick represented a loan (debt) made in gold and silver to the debtor by the creditor. The different number and size of the notches on the stick represented the amount of the loan (debt).

The loan was to repaid to the creditor in gold and silver. As installments were made, the stick was shortened to represent the diminishing amount of the outstanding debt. Eventually the tally stick could be retired - debt paid.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


England had Usury laws in place, there could be no loans made collecting on interest. While Tally Sticks were in lieu of Gold and Silver, and could be exchanged for it, it was not debt money because repayments did not demand interest.

You only have debt money when there is interest demanded in excess of principal. Remember, debt money is money that is loaned out, and then demanded back as repayment, with an additional amount called interest, which was never loaned out and therefore does not exist to be repaid. Debt money causes the debtor to be trapped and obligated to expel energy to the benefit the creditor.

At best, you can say that tally sticks were a simply a symbolic placeholder for gold and silver, which I take you agree is not debt money.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 50027733
United States
12/07/2013 04:07 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Paper and plastic are NOT used as money. They actually represent 'currency', which in the US is denominated in DOLLARS OF DEBT.

Don't make the mistake of using the terms money and currency interchangeably.

All paper-based fiat value exchange systems in the world are debt-based currencies, not a single one of them backed by anything more that blind faith.

True money - gold and silver - has no counter-party claim.

Look it up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


Well, of course wooden tally sticks used by England for hundreds of years had no debt behind it either. Nor did the money used by the Vatican to build Europe's giant cathedrals. It was all NON-DEBT money, unlike the money we use to day. Just like Gold and Silver with no counter-partly claims, right? Fiat can have debt or it can have no debt behind it. Yet people will use it as money either way, this is historically shown.

So it can't be the debt behind it or lack thereof with gives it this power, it has to be people's BELIEF in it.

Of course the average person who pays for his sandwich at subway doesn't see the debt behind the paper he uses to pay for his sandwich, he sees the paper. In his/her mind the PAPER is what has the value, at least at that present moment. His belief in the paper allows him to exchange it with the merchant for the sandwich, and that only happens because the merchant similarly shares his belief.

Hardly anyone thinks about what is behind the currency, except people well versed in these things.

To the banker, who knows the currency has debt behind it, knows this debt is actually a representation of energy obligated and expended by someone else - for the banker's own benefit.

The banker creates this currency, colors it green and names it "money" (one eye, or self actualization) for purposes of creating an aura of value around something that clearly has no value at all.

Then he will use this currency to put others in debt (which could not happen except by threat of government violence via taxation), and those others have to expend energy which makes the banker's life more comfortable. So the banker gets to have a nicer house, and can have sex with lots of pretty women and so on. And that nice house and lots of sex is also a perception of value, isn't it? That's all it is in a nutshell, from the peon to the banker, it is all, ALL about the mind. What it perceives as value or not.

Note that the money - gold, silver, tally sticks, paper, itself has no value at all. Value is a creation of perception.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Why am I arguing with someone who just doesn't understand the concept of the tally stick?

The tally stick represented a loan (debt) made in gold and silver to the debtor by the creditor. The different number and size of the notches on the stick represented the amount of the loan (debt).

The loan was to repaid to the creditor in gold and silver. As installments were made, the stick was shortened to represent the diminishing amount of the outstanding debt. Eventually the tally stick could be retired - debt paid.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


England had Usury laws in place, there could be no loans made collecting on interest. While Tally Sticks were in lieu of Gold and Silver, and could be exchanged for it, it was not debt money because repayments did not demand interest.

You only have debt money when there is interest demanded in excess of principal. Remember, debt money is money that is loaned out, and then demanded back as repayment, with an additional amount called interest, which was never loaned out and therefore does not exist to be repaid. Debt money causes the debtor to be trapped and obligated to expel energy to the benefit the creditor.

At best, you can say that tally sticks were a simply a symbolic placeholder for gold and silver, which I take you agree is not debt money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


What a tortured argument. Regardless of whether a loan is made with or without interest, the simple act creates a debtor and a creditor.

If I make a loan of $100.00 to my son, I would not expect him to pay any interest, but he would still be indebted to me until the loan was repaid.

This is going nowhere - especially as my points were to distinguish the difference between fiat debt- and faith-based CURRENCIES, including BitCoin, and true MONEY that exists WITHOUT A COUNTER-CLAIM ... gold and silver.
Copperhead

User ID: 27466326
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12/07/2013 04:18 PM

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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Its simple math - There are only 21 Million bitcoins ever allowed to exist and Bernanke prints about 21 Billion dollars every minute 24/7 (not to mention other countries doing the same). Now which currency would you pick to put your wealth in knowing this?

Gold would also be good to invest in, at least in theory. However, unlike bitcoin, gold/silver prices are being actively suppressed by the banks using futures contracts. That will not stop as long as they can print unlimited money on demand. Bitcoin will continue to rise against the paper currencies forever. It may eventually also cause the collapse of all the world's fiat currencies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49083861


Each bitcoin can be broken into fractions to 8 decimal places, which means each bitcoin can turn into 999,999,999 pieces. Take this times 21 million and you have the potential for over 20 quadrillion bitcoins. A full bitcoin has the same intrinsic value as a .999999999 bitcoin, so in essence the potential number of bitcoins is limitless.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2013 04:30 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
...


Well, of course wooden tally sticks used by England for hundreds of years had no debt behind it either. Nor did the money used by the Vatican to build Europe's giant cathedrals. It was all NON-DEBT money, unlike the money we use to day. Just like Gold and Silver with no counter-partly claims, right? Fiat can have debt or it can have no debt behind it. Yet people will use it as money either way, this is historically shown.

So it can't be the debt behind it or lack thereof with gives it this power, it has to be people's BELIEF in it.

Of course the average person who pays for his sandwich at subway doesn't see the debt behind the paper he uses to pay for his sandwich, he sees the paper. In his/her mind the PAPER is what has the value, at least at that present moment. His belief in the paper allows him to exchange it with the merchant for the sandwich, and that only happens because the merchant similarly shares his belief.

Hardly anyone thinks about what is behind the currency, except people well versed in these things.

To the banker, who knows the currency has debt behind it, knows this debt is actually a representation of energy obligated and expended by someone else - for the banker's own benefit.

The banker creates this currency, colors it green and names it "money" (one eye, or self actualization) for purposes of creating an aura of value around something that clearly has no value at all.

Then he will use this currency to put others in debt (which could not happen except by threat of government violence via taxation), and those others have to expend energy which makes the banker's life more comfortable. So the banker gets to have a nicer house, and can have sex with lots of pretty women and so on. And that nice house and lots of sex is also a perception of value, isn't it? That's all it is in a nutshell, from the peon to the banker, it is all, ALL about the mind. What it perceives as value or not.

Note that the money - gold, silver, tally sticks, paper, itself has no value at all. Value is a creation of perception.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


Why am I arguing with someone who just doesn't understand the concept of the tally stick?

The tally stick represented a loan (debt) made in gold and silver to the debtor by the creditor. The different number and size of the notches on the stick represented the amount of the loan (debt).

The loan was to repaid to the creditor in gold and silver. As installments were made, the stick was shortened to represent the diminishing amount of the outstanding debt. Eventually the tally stick could be retired - debt paid.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


England had Usury laws in place, there could be no loans made collecting on interest. While Tally Sticks were in lieu of Gold and Silver, and could be exchanged for it, it was not debt money because repayments did not demand interest.

You only have debt money when there is interest demanded in excess of principal. Remember, debt money is money that is loaned out, and then demanded back as repayment, with an additional amount called interest, which was never loaned out and therefore does not exist to be repaid. Debt money causes the debtor to be trapped and obligated to expel energy to the benefit the creditor.

At best, you can say that tally sticks were a simply a symbolic placeholder for gold and silver, which I take you agree is not debt money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51008934


What a tortured argument. Regardless of whether a loan is made with or without interest, the simple act creates a debtor and a creditor.

If I make a loan of $100.00 to my son, I would not expect him to pay any interest, but he would still be indebted to me until the loan was repaid.

This is going nowhere - especially as my points were to distinguish the difference between fiat debt- and faith-based CURRENCIES, including BitCoin, and true MONEY that exists WITHOUT A COUNTER-CLAIM ... gold and silver.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50027733


There is nothing tortured about it. Debt money is just that, it creates an entrapped debtor. Fiat money can be debt money or not. For most of human history money has been non-debt money. Empires have risen using fiat nondebt money. Making a loan is one thing, making one a debtor can never get out of is another, it is the latter which causes empires to fall, and for economies to falter.

But all of this debt/non debt system of money and what good it does us or not, falls under a wider paradigm of the human mind, and this also has to be understood.

ALL currencies are *faith based*, whether debt or nondebt, gold or silver or tally stick. Your belief gives money value. They are all religious talismans, based on a FAITH, or a religion. Dollar Bill, is based on Baal the ancient Phonecian God, later called Bull or Molech. Bill = Bull, Baal.

These BILLS/BULLS are all faith based, because money does not exist in nature, and has NEVER existed in nature. There is nothing natural about money at all. It is all human faith, all a figment creation of our imagination, which has over time become an enforced institutional mechanism of population control. You will understand what money is as soon as you realize that it is all in your mind, and that money creators are using this belief to keep themselves on top of everyone else, much like ancient priests of Baal used people's beliefs to keep them in their ivory castles.

This is also why I say Bitcoin COULD work as money. If the collective consciousness were to accept it as a replacement of debt money which is what we have in place today, the debt money system would fall. As it currently stands, bitcoin is NONDEBT money, and as such a threat to the debt money system. And that is also the reason why it had to be stopped by these debt money creators.

Debt money creators know that money is NOT real, and based on faith only. As such, they understand bitcoin could become the next faith based currency. That's why they made it whipsaw with volatility, because they wanted to deter other institutions from adopting it. It had to be nipped in the bud.
The Nihilist

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12/07/2013 06:06 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
below 700 again...lets see it go under 500...then the panic starts.
eagleman  (OP)

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12/07/2013 06:27 PM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
bump
Anonymous Coward
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12/08/2013 06:27 AM
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Re: BITCOIN IS CRASHING!!!!!DOWN CLOSE TO 50% IN HOURS!!!!!
Just made my first 0.02 bitcoins the past 3 days or so!

I bought a mining contract. So, I just pay nerds essentially to run mining hardware for a 10% fee of every bitcoin they mine.

Additionally, I can set what percentage I want to reinvest back into additional mining power and what percentage of bitcoin I want.

There are exchanges built now. Where you can buy and sell hashing power and bitcoins. So, let's say bitcoin falls. Maybe someone invested in mining wants to trade their hashing power to accumulate bitcoins at lows. Then when bitcoins go high obviously you might want to use those bitcoins to buy additional hashing power.

What it is going to do is bring about additional price stability.

Also, bitcoin can be used to eliminate lawyers. You can attach documents and make third parties very transactions.





GLP