Christians, what do you think of Origen? Transmigration of souls and universal salvation

Just asking? Who gave the one star?

reincarnation is in the new testament... jesus specifically says that john the baptist is the reincarnation of the prophet elijah... there are also other references...

Corinthians 15:28 God will be all in all
Is one of the scriptures thought to support universal salvation

Yes, are you Christian ? Do you believe in reincarnation? If so, How did you come to believe in it?

"For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come." (Matthew 11:13-14)

"And the disciples asked him, saying, 'Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?' But he answered them and said, 'Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.' Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)

The catholic church has never been the bride (church) of Christ.

The apostolic church that Jesus commissioned His apostles to start was terribly persecuted by the roman authorities.

From its very beginnings the church of rome adopted every babylonian Sun/Serpent worship custom and tradition she could and slapped a Christian sticker on it.

When Rome fell, The church took the scepter of the Caesars and declared herself the authority of the Christian world.

Vigilius...ascended the papal chair (538 A.D.) under the military protection of Belisarius." History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 327

For the next 1260 years or 42 prophetic months, or a time ,times and half a time, she(rome) persecuted the apostolic church everywhere she could hunt them down.

That is why God "hid her in the wilderness".

He was hiding her (His church) from rome(roman catholic church)

In 1798 (1260 years later) Napoleon sent in General Berthier into rome and arrested the pope and abolished the papacy.

Then began the protestant movement. (which btw was quickly corrupted once rome reclaimed her power in 1929)



About where you go when you die, the Bible makes it very clear that the dead are asleep. They know nothing. Their thoughts perish that very day.


Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Isaiah 38:18-19, "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth."


John 11:11-14 ...Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.


The dead are asleep until resurrected at the last day.

The absolute verse on the subject.

1Corinthians 15:20-23 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming

So what do you think of Origen? You agree with the church that he was heretical?

I have not read his writings so I cannot comment on them.

What I can comment on is the Word of God plainly states many many times the dead are dead. Period. Asleep until the resurrection.

If he teaches differently than that, yes, that would be a false teaching.

About rome calling it a heresy, well, even a broken clock is correct 2x a day.

I think it can happen but it is a rare exception rather than the rule.

I think I've talked with you before your beliefs are not typical of most Christians. But anyways how do you decide the canon of the scriptures which was determined by the Cathic Church? Why do you trust that the Catholic Church got that right? How do you interpret the scripture about ElijAh then? Thanks for your replies.

Do you mean that you think that Transmigration is a rare exception? Are you Christian or what do you believe and why? Thanks

How do you interpret this? Some Christians say that John the Baptist came "in the spirit of Elijah" but it was not a reincarnation ... What do you think of this interpretation?

I know (pains me to say it) the catholic church was right because Biblically we are told the dead are asleep until the resurrection. I pasted alot of verses and can prolly find 10+ more but it's not really needed is it?

They we're very plain. Reread them if you still have questions. They are truly very plain on the subject. Especially the last one.

Well thanks for your replies, but I tend to disagree that the scriptures are plain and we had this discussion before. You must know that most Christians do not believe as you do about the passages you quote. But anyways, so why do you trust the catholic Church's cannon of the scripture? How do you determine which things the Catholic Church is right on and which they are not?

I would agree. Hebrews 9:27 And its appointed to men to die once, but after this the judgement.

I can't say that I've ever understood why people believe or want reincarnation. One round down here should be enough for anyone I'd think.

the text is clear... speaks for itself...

"But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.' Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)

john the baptist was the spirit of elijah returned... that's what reincarnation is... jesus couldn't have been more clear...

2nd Kings 2 : 11

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Elijah went to heaven. Scripture makes no reference of him returning to earth.

The scriptures you posted are speaking of the spirit of prophecy that Elijah and John the baptist shared.

Elijah had a message. Repent and get ready for the Lord.

Johns message was identical.

They both had the exact same Holy Spirit and the exact same message purpose.

Jesus was not speaking they were the same physical man.

If Elijah came to earth to tell his message again, why make him go through being born, being a toddler, being a teen, being a man all over again?

He left his now glorified heavenly body and came as a baby? There is no purpose of that.

The Spirit was the same. The message was the same.

How do you view early Christian writers such as Origen then? Why should we discount them? How do you decide what the church is right about and what they are wrong about? Why do you trust the cannon of the scriptures as determined by the Catholic Church to be correct? Thanks

One way and one way only. With the Word of God.

Isaiah 8 : 20

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Like I said, even the rcc can be correct on occasion. But 99 out of 100 times they are not.

This is just a very rare instance they are correct.

It would help if some Christians would review the information at the link its a pretty good summary of the arguments for and against the beliefs of Origen and why the church diced it was heretical.

If early writers teachings agree with scripture, it can be trusted.

If they do not agree with scripture, they cannot be trusted.

The bible decides what the rcc or any church gets right. Not us.

I don't trust the rcc canon. I trust The Word of God. KJV

On that note isn't Jesus the reincarnation of Solomon?


The Lord said there would never be another king like him, and his kingdom would reign forever.

I did scan it and found some errors. In a bit I will go through it for you and tell you how it differs from the Word.

Though that was more of a summary of his writings. Not an actual writing of his.

But every Christian has different interpretations obviously one Christian here is believing that the dead are just dead / asleep and he/ she thinks we have to wait for the judgement to go to heaven. Others think that heaven is an immediate reward. So is the cannon of the scripture the other thing you think is correct? Because the Catholic church decided that.

what are you talking about??? the old testament prophecy is clear and undeniable... the prophet elijah would return before the coming of the messiah... not someone who "had the exact same Holy Spirit and the exact same message purpose." it says Elijah would return... don't twist the text to fit your interpretation

The roman catholic church murdered anyone found in possession of a Bible.

They outlawed the possession of a Bible.

The catholic church has claimed many times to be above the Bible. They know it identifies them as the home of antichrist and reproves most of their doctrines and customs.

The catholic church in no way had control over the bible other than to persecute those with one.

That is why God hid it along with his church in the wilderness.

Why hide the church if the churches guide would be corrupted and destroyed? They were both supernaturally protected.

And, to any Christian thinking heaven is an immediate reward, that is not as we both have show in anyway biblical.
If they refuse to open there own Bibles and see the truth, that in no way makes the true message in anyway false. :)

More pagan/roman false teachings.

Again the bible rebukes that false claim.

John 1 : 29 - 23



19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.


John clearly stated he is NOT Elijah.

He had the exact same message.

That is all those verses were referring to.

Ok this is interesting, are you catholic or Christian? So you interpret this as literally Elijah returning... Do you think it is different than transmigration of souls or the same, or if its an exception is this the only exception? Or are there more exceptions? Thanks

Are you sure this is a correct translation? Do you know what the original Greek said? Why do you trust his particular interpretation over the others. The disciples seem to be literally expecting Elijah, why would they be expecting this? Do you think the disciples believed in reincarnation and Jesus is correcting them?

If someone does not have scripture to back up their claim , it is dangerous to accept it.

John himself plainly told everyone he was Not Elijah in John 1 : 19 - 23