Black Flag or the Grateful Dead...who had a bigger countercultural influence? Hippies or punks? | |
scaredshitless
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Emlapal
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PRCPTN
(OP) User ID: 38009342 United States 04/13/2014 10:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Both are icons of their respective genres...both inspired countless imitators and both played the game by their own rules. The hippie movement lasted from what 66 to maybe 74? Punk broke in 76 and starts to fade by 86. Both hippies and punks are around to this day, but what makes you say the Dead "hands down"? |
Sikhed
User ID: 3382472 United States 04/13/2014 10:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Grateful Dead. There's still plenty of hippies from the 60s and 70s and new ones being (made, born?) But no punks. It was a phase. The 70s punks all got jobs and became the yuppies and metros they dispised. :doom360: |
Martin Farbles
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PRCPTN
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 56530593 United States 04/13/2014 10:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ya know.... back in the 80's I was a kid living on the streets of NYC riding an ILLEGAL skateboard. Our culture there peaked at Thompkins Square Riot, the Bum Riot the cops lost a car or two, and waited for better weather and local money. HC changed music as we know "metal", period. GD, an' I've taken No2 tanks from dental offices and sold grilled cheese, traveled, know how the cops killed Adam Katz, and saw NYPD horse soldiers kick kids off the sidewalk with the horse. Even saw cops in choppers drop tear gas in Florida before bull dozing cars and pets. BOTH were different, yet the same gigs... SHIT THING IS- there is nothing to replace them and that's why young kids are stupid. lawyers killed music, be hard- cops used to run from LES crew.... no kids can say that. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 56583180 United States 04/13/2014 10:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I still enjoy the occasional throwback and put on some old punk at work, but I can listen to the Dead all week long (not that I do, I just could). |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 56530593 United States 04/13/2014 10:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I was in more riots as a punker than hanging w/ dead's. You used to be able to make money traveling on tour, enough to make the next show and bang a hippie chick. W/ Hardcore it was more life- Andrew Scum is STILL a punk, and a narc. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 56784809 United States 04/14/2014 07:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the grateful dead....i saw the dead at least 11 times, and black flag once. tell me when black flag sold out rich stadium...the dead did twice not even debatable....the deads career 30+ years non stop touring multiple times a year....and remaining members still selling out red rocks. henry rollins? where is he now? still pretending to be spoken word poet somewhere? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 56530593 United States 04/14/2014 12:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the grateful dead....i saw the dead at least 11 times, and black flag once. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56784809 tell me when black flag sold out rich stadium...the dead did twice not even debatable....the deads career 30+ years non stop touring multiple times a year....and remaining members still selling out red rocks. henry rollins? where is he now? still pretending to be spoken word poet somewhere? Black Flag WASN'T Henry, it was Chavo & Dez where's the dead now? further is cool, but the spirit vanished. it's sad, too because kids these days don't have a pretty safe way to travel and meet friends from other areas they would never have gone. Also, Jerry Gar worked for the CIA and was pretty open about using it in his name- GarCIA. One sunday show at CB's crowd could have beaten a stadium of deadheads down in the street. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 56530593 United States 04/14/2014 12:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1380509 United States 04/14/2014 12:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 22324749 United States 04/14/2014 12:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the grateful dead....i saw the dead at least 11 times, and black flag once. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 56784809 tell me when black flag sold out rich stadium...the dead did twice not even debatable....the deads career 30+ years non stop touring multiple times a year....and remaining members still selling out red rocks. henry rollins? where is he now? still pretending to be spoken word poet somewhere? Black Flag WASN'T Henry, it was Chavo & Dez where's the dead now? further is cool, but the spirit vanished. it's sad, too because kids these days don't have a pretty safe way to travel and meet friends from other areas they would never have gone. Also, Jerry Gar worked for the CIA and was pretty open about using it in his name- GarCIA. One sunday show at CB's crowd could have beaten a stadium of deadheads down in the street. Not after they were spun 7 ways to Sunday...you do not want to mess with certain factions within the GD family. |
indiandave
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Susanna
User ID: 44857721 United States 04/14/2014 12:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Black Flag were huge fans of the Grateful Dead....yeah who would have thunk right? But which band had a bigger influence on their respective countercultural movement? I say Black Flag cause I grew up and was a fan during their heyday and was just a little too young to experience the Dead at their peak in the early 70's... Quoting: PRCPTN [link to i64.photobucket.com] HIPPIE HIPPIE HOORAY!! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 55257479 United States 04/14/2014 12:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | folk it made country, and then it jam and blues that made elvids and he a punk but he could sang and new punk thang coul;dn't very much then came anglaish boy bands like led fem girl hair boys and da beatles annglish like fem liooking man i thank or sowntg |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 55257479 United States 04/14/2014 12:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | it like a prancy pirate guy and terroible fuiutar but i like sex pistols even tho they a boy band , cause they funny or sowent5g it like in the south we would rub they skiiny head and laguh at they in they fashion |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 55257479 United States 04/14/2014 12:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | it alot safer to be a hippoe ltho it look liek to me gratefgul dead man stay alive til like 101 and have a trillion fdllasrs and peole liked him dem punks drop liuke elvis or soewntg and some that punk turned itno real crap , i nmea it not bo didley , that stuff and handrix say stuff like "hell yeah, thankee god" and stuff anglsih stuff say like "we cleva," and in they head they rally thanking "i hate u , u mutha %$#%&$^&" and thakn peope dontp know or soewntg |
Founders Fan
User ID: 4154918 United States 04/14/2014 12:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Dead head here. Listening to a show from 73 on XM right now Last Edited by Founders Fan on 04/14/2014 12:53 PM If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already. Bob Marley “The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.” THOMAS PAINE (1737-1809) Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one. Bruce Lee |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 55257479 United States 04/14/2014 12:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | that metalling kind a thiang look dangerous too it liek they memebers is nazis or sosw4tng i weant to one ozzs festr to see roib zominbie and kittie wirhci i lied cause of bo diddley r4o swowntg and the audiende is like qearing vmaflouge and boots and struff and i am liek, no wonda that one guitar man git shot , these people is like nbazi s or soewntg hippie bands betta maybe cause [people is stoned and to tirred to kilt heach orthar or soewngtg |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 55257479 United States 04/14/2014 12:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | i forgot why i wven reply toi this thread but now i rememebr i saw an tv show and they taking about cobain and i like he and bing crosby , they seem the same or soswntg and the black flkag giuy is "they is some artistic ttpoes dojgt this stuff and it adagernous for they" and then an anglish man , the stones guuitrarist tha, oh kieth hail satan girl anglsih boy, he say "peopel die all the time" and i made a imnage of kieht drug addled hail statn boiy with like a thang in he moth and posted it on u tune |
Blag Dahlia
User ID: 48598971 04/14/2014 01:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | that metalling kind a thiang look dangerous too Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55257479 it liek they memebers is nazis or sosw4tng i weant to one ozzs festr to see roib zominbie and kittie wirhci i lied cause of bo diddley r4o swowntg and the audiende is like qearing vmaflouge and boots and struff and i am liek, no wonda that one guitar man git shot , these people is like nbazi s or soewntg hippie bands betta maybe cause [people is stoned and to tirred to kilt heach orthar or soewngtg i forgot why i wven reply toi this thread but now i rememebr Quoting: Anonymous Coward 55257479 i saw an tv show and they taking about cobain and i like he and bing crosby , they seem the same or soswntg and the black flkag giuy is "they is some artistic ttpoes dojgt this stuff and it adagernous for they" and then an anglish man , the stones guuitrarist tha, oh kieth hail satan girl anglsih boy, he say "peopel die all the time" and i made a imnage of kieht drug addled hail statn boiy with like a thang in he moth and posted it on u tune No fear. No distractions. AKA Johnny Animosity |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 56530593 United States 04/14/2014 01:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 1256345 United States 04/14/2014 03:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Love both bands but Jerry Ruled! The impact of the hippie baby boomer's have paved the way for what is going on today. Hippies turned to yuppies who saw there was no problem at going for material wealth, but being some what a hippie, still they were lazy. Scheming and building a system that they can reap rewards from w/ out actually producing anything a.k.a. work. For some material wealth was not enough so power became their motivator. Bank's, wall street, politics ect. The 'If it feel's good do it' mentality really did not change though from their youth. From drug's and sex to a BMW w/ leather heated seats. Another version of that baby boomer slogan is -'Do as thou wilt...' The dead head/hippie gen. has done something that no other has in their pursuit of 'feeling good'. They have thrown all generations to follow them under the bus. Their peace, love and eternal grooviness (for only them apparently) has led to an economic enslavement and a draconian society for their children, grand children and so on. They sold out the freedom that is the right of the rest of us. A sacred trust that each generation protects and if need be die's to secure it's passing, not just to their kid's but all gen's to follow. They not only broke this trust they did it in a way a sociopath operates. They simply did/do not care about other's or the results of their actions just as long as they got 'theirs'. I do not see that as much in the folks who were 'kid's' w/ the Dead staring in the '80's. This is when my friend's and I were out there, and by the time we got through college the job market's were already terminally ill or shipped over seas. We missed the gravy train, but as we got a bit older and started seeing what was being done - We were glad. The betrayal to ones self and those around him need to jump on that train was too much. The other's, real quick, are the ones that still hold something to their ideals but being lazy hippies are glad to have someone else do the heavy lifting. This makes it easy for a corporation or gov't to get what they want but just labeling something a 'green' or for the little helpless critter's. Make a token effort on the surface, then rape the land and screw the people. So I think the Dead made the biggest impact but with in that it is the baby boom gen. and them in general. Punk came around in part because of hypocrisy of the baby boomer's (birthed in Detroit NOT the U.K.) and by the time that much smaller gen. started coming of age the baby boomer's had already locked everything down and were starting to tear it all down. Hope those trinket's and babbles you got for selling out the future of the human race keep you nice and warm on your death bed you selfish fuck's! - 'If unable to dance on your grave(s) I will crawl across 'them'.' |
PRCPTN
(OP) User ID: 38009342 United States 04/14/2014 07:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Great points by all so far....except maybe the AC who types like he has marbles in his mouth. Understood that the Dead was way more popular from a musical standpoint, but the question was less about popularity or even talent and more about influence on a movement. Granted one movement was larger than the other, but all things considered....I'm thinking that Black Flags "do it yourself" mentality and their "fuck authority" mentality along with their social awareness made more of an impact than anything the Dead did. To me, Black Flag defined an agenda for a countercultural movement, albeit a smaller one.....whereas the Dead really didn't have an agenda as far as I can tell. Could be wrong about that tho....if so please tell. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 42040721 United States 04/14/2014 07:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | To me, Black Flag defined an agenda for a countercultural movement, albeit a smaller one.....whereas the Dead really didn't have an agenda as far as I can tell. Could be wrong about that tho....if so please tell. Quoting: PRCPTN The English hippies had a political agenda, the American hippies wanted to sell you a t-shirt [link to www.internationaltimes.it] |