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How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)

 
AntiPC
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10/18/2015 12:31 AM
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How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
For the longest time, I had much built-up anger against liberals. Every time I tried to have a discussion, this anger came out and lead to a bad place. Calling them names, personal attacks, etc.

Fortunately I came across Ben Shapiro, and watched many of his videos. I want to share you with the basics of what I learned, and how you can use it to your advantage.

Note: This isn't exactly what's in the video, just some things that I picked up along the way. Watch the video for the full presentation.

1. Frame the debate. The liberal will generally always try to use an opinion as fact. In this situation, you must frame the debate using a factual point of view. For example, if a liberal says "Trump is a racist", I might say "You're telling me a racist employs thousands of blacks/Hispanics, and married a woman who is from Slovenia?". The liberal may respond with "It doesn't matter, he's still a racist", and I might say, "You know what, you are the racist, you're the one calling Trump a racist without any evidence whatsoever. That means you're a bully and a nasty human being. If you're that type of person then we can't have a rational conversation. If you want to learn the facts, then maybe we can talk about it."

2. Do not get angry. We all know that liberals are bullies. They do not want to use facts, they prefer to argue with "feelz" instead. This can cause you to immediately go off on personal attacks. Do not do this. Beat them with logic and facts instead.

3. Know your facts. Have a good understanding of economic issues, trade deficits, FBI crime statistics, illegal immigration, foreign policy, gun statistics, and anything else that you think will be brought up during the debate.

4. Do not fall into their trap. The liberal will always try to make you feel guilty, because it makes them feel good. It's what they are taught to do, it's their only play. Do not fall into this trap, keep re-framing the debate back to a factual point of view. Never let them debate on "feelz".

5. They do not have control of you. Despite what the liberal may think, their insults have no power over you. So regardless of if they call you a racist, sexist, whatever, it doesn't matter. You have the facts, they have opinions. Keep debating them with facts, as the liberal cannot win a factual debate.

6. Pick your battles. Remember that 90% of liberals will not change their views, so you have to pick your battles. Ben, for example, recommends to always debate a liberal in front of a large crowd, and embarrass them as much as possible. The average liberal may not be worth wasting your time, because at the end of the debate, even if you have all the facts, their views will not change.




Last Edited by AntiPC on 10/18/2015 05:43 AM
Welfare won't fix poverty.
Anonymous Coward
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10/18/2015 12:33 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Bring up the obvious fact that college campuses with students that have valid CCWs allowed to carry guns would actually make things safer, as very few people with CCWs go around with the intent of committing illegal acts, and very few of the people who go around shooting up theaters or schools care about the gun law when they go and do it.

The logic of this argument is so obvious it baffles my mind how these airheads don't understand it. Teachers with CCW permits should be allowed to carry in public schools as well.
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10/18/2015 12:35 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
For the longest time, I had much built-up anger against liberals. Every time I tried to have a discussion, this anger came out and lead to a bad place. Calling them names, personal attacks, etc.

Fortunately I came across Ben Shapiro, and watched many of his videos. I want to share you with the basics of what I learned, and how you can use it to your advantage.

Note: This isn't exactly what's in the video, just some things that I picked up along the way. Watch the video for the full presentation.

1. Frame the debate. The liberal will always try to use an opinion as fact. This is generally what angers me the most. In this situation, you must frame the debate using a factual point of view. For example, if a liberal says "Trump is a racist", I might say "You're telling me a racist employs thousands of blacks/Hispanics, and married a woman who is from Slovenia?". The liberal may respond with "It doesn't matter, he's still a racist", and I would say, "You know what, you are the racist, you're the one calling Trump a racist without any evidence whatsoever. That means you're a bully and a nasty human being. If you're that type of person then we can't have a rational conversation. If you want to learn the facts, then maybe we can talk about it."

2. Do not get angry. We all know that liberals are bullies. They do not want to use facts, they prefer to argue with "feelz" instead. This can cause you to immediately go off on personal attacks. Do not do this. Beat them with logic and facts instead.

3. Know your facts. Have a good understanding of FBI crime statistics, illegal immigration, foreign policy, gun statistics, and anything else that you think will be brought up during the debate.

4. Do not fall into their trap. The liberal will always try to make you feel guilty, because it makes them feel good. It's what they are taught to do, it's their only play. Do not fall into this trap, keep re-framing the debate back to a factual point of view. Never let them debate on "feelz".

5. They do not have control of you. Despite what the liberal may think, their insults have no power over you. So regardless of if they call you a racist, sexist, whatever, it doesn't matter. You have the facts, they have opinions. Keep debating them with facts, as the liberal cannot win a factual debate.

6. Pick your battles. Remember that 80% of liberals will not change their views, so you have to pick your battles. Ben, for example, recommends to always debate a liberal in front of a large crowd, and embarrass them as much as possible. The average liberal may not be worth wasting your time, because at the end of the debate, even if you have all the facts, their views will not change.



 Quoting: AntiPC




Funny you talk about using opinions as facts and then line by line make sweeping declarations about what liberals think, say, and do....when its clear that you have no facts to back that up.

I'm a "liberal" and none of your "liberals always" or "liberals never" statements fit me. Nor do they fit most of the liberals I know.

I suggest if you want to debate a liberal and win, you might want to get rid of bullshit stereotypes you suspect or maybe just wish were true. At least then you'll have a chance.
AntiPC  (OP)

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10/18/2015 12:35 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Bring up the obvious fact that college campuses with students that have valid CCWs allowed to carry guns would actually make things safer, as very few people with CCWs go around with the intent of committing illegal acts, and very few of the people who go around shooting up theaters or schools care about the gun law when they go and do it.

The logic of this argument is so obvious it baffles my mind how these airheads don't understand it. Teachers with CCW permits should be allowed to carry in public schools as well.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9081352


Agreed. Liberals are taught a narrative but not the underlying statistics to back up the narrative. So when you put them in a position where they actually have to use facts and logic, they are unable to do so. It's quite satisfying, since I've been watching Ben, I've had a lot of fun debating these retards
Welfare won't fix poverty.
AntiPC  (OP)

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10/18/2015 12:36 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Funny you talk about using opinions as facts and then line by line make sweeping declarations about what liberals think, say, and do....when its clear that you have no facts to back that up.

I'm a "liberal" and none of your "liberals always" or "liberals never" statements fit me. Nor do they fit most of the liberals I know.

I suggest if you want to debate a liberal and win, you might want to get rid of bullshit stereotypes you suspect or maybe just wish were true. At least then you'll have a chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70543385



I've debated dozens and dozens of liberals, they're all the same. If you don't have the liberal mindset, you aren't a liberal. Pretty simple really

Last Edited by AntiPC on 10/18/2015 12:37 AM
Welfare won't fix poverty.
Anonymous Coward
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10/18/2015 12:38 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Most of the time, arguments (about anything, really) can't be "won".


Reason is not really big with human beings.

You can't reason people out of insanity, and at this point liberalism is mental illness.

Just sayin'
Anonymous Coward
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10/18/2015 12:39 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Most of the time, arguments (about anything, really) can't be "won".


Reason is not really big with human beings.

You can't reason people out of insanity, and at this point liberalism is mental illness.

Just sayin'
 Quoting: Adytum


wise man.
AntiPC  (OP)

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10/18/2015 12:40 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Most of the time, arguments (about anything, really) can't be "won".


Reason is not really big with human beings.

You can't reason people out of insanity, and at this point liberalism is mental illness.

Just sayin'
 Quoting: Adytum


Agreed. I truly think liberalism is a mental illness. What's funny is that we base this belief off facts. They call conservatism a mental illness, based on opinions / narratives they've been fed, but are never able to back it up.

Last Edited by AntiPC on 10/18/2015 02:51 AM
Welfare won't fix poverty.
Wolf 1776

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10/18/2015 12:41 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
bump
:wolf_footer_msg:
Anonymous Coward
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10/18/2015 12:43 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Most of the time, arguments (about anything, really) can't be "won".


Reason is not really big with human beings.

You can't reason people out of insanity, and at this point liberalism is mental illness.

Just sayin'
 Quoting: Adytum


Agreed. I truly, truly think liberalism is a mental illness. What's funny is that we base this belief off facts. They call conservatism a mental illness, based on opinions / narratives they've been fed, but are never able to back it up.
 Quoting: AntiPC


True conservativism believes in living life according to traditional norms. It's the sanest thing in the world.

Liberalism appears to be based on the wholly fallacious idea that man and the world can be perfected and a utopian paradise created right here on earth in our lifetime -- without any historical precedent to back that up!


That's just nuts.
GodSaveAmerica

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10/18/2015 12:43 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Funny you talk about using opinions as facts and then line by line make sweeping declarations about what liberals think, say, and do....when its clear that you have no facts to back that up.

I'm a "liberal" and none of your "liberals always" or "liberals never" statements fit me. Nor do they fit most of the liberals I know.

I suggest if you want to debate a liberal and win, you might want to get rid of bullshit stereotypes you suspect or maybe just wish were true. At least then you'll have a chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70543385



I've debated dozens and dozens of liberals, they're all the same. If you don't have the liberal mindset, you aren't a liberal. Pretty simple really
 Quoting: AntiPC


Funny you talk about using opinions as facts and then line by line make sweeping declarations about what liberals think, say, and do....when its clear that you have no facts to back that up.

I'm a "liberal" and none of your "liberals always" or "liberals never" statements fit me. Nor do they fit most of the liberals I know.

I suggest if you want to debate a liberal and win, you might want to get rid of bullshit stereotypes you suspect or maybe just wish were true. At least then you'll have a chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70543385



I've debated dozens and dozens of liberals, they're all the same. If you don't have the liberal mindset, you aren't a liberal. Pretty simple really
 Quoting: AntiPC


popcorn
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10/18/2015 12:45 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Pinned this shiz for ya for Saturday Night.

hf
AntiPC  (OP)

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10/18/2015 12:47 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Most of the time, arguments (about anything, really) can't be "won".


Reason is not really big with human beings.

You can't reason people out of insanity, and at this point liberalism is mental illness.

Just sayin'
 Quoting: Adytum


Agreed. I truly, truly think liberalism is a mental illness. What's funny is that we base this belief off facts. They call conservatism a mental illness, based on opinions / narratives they've been fed, but are never able to back it up.
 Quoting: AntiPC


True conservativism believes in living life according to traditional norms. It's the sanest thing in the world.

Liberalism appears to be based on the wholly fallacious idea that man and the world can be perfected and a utopian paradise created right here on earth in our lifetime -- without any historical precedent to back that up!


That's just nuts.
 Quoting: Adytum



Yep, and honestly, I don't really care about gay marriage (not religious), and I smoke ganj. The reason I think liberalism is a mental illness, is mainly from a fiscal point of view. As you said, they believe the government will magically create a utopian society where everyone is rich, happy, and doesn't have to work hard. I spent my whole life working my ass off, now I see Bernie saying he'll give ILLEGALS free healthcare and college? WTF

Last Edited by AntiPC on 10/18/2015 03:50 AM
Welfare won't fix poverty.
Anonymous Coward
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10/18/2015 12:49 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
why waste the energy?You are better off debating someone Chinese,in their own language, even though you don't speak it. More productive use of time as you may pick something up.
Anonymous Coward
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10/18/2015 12:50 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Why waste your time? You know
they're wrong and they think they're right.

Just slap the ever lovin shit out 'em and enjoy their look of shock.
Anonymous Coward
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10/18/2015 12:54 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Most of the time, arguments (about anything, really) can't be "won".


Reason is not really big with human beings.

You can't reason people out of insanity, and at this point liberalism is mental illness.

Just sayin'
 Quoting: Adytum


Agreed. I truly, truly think liberalism is a mental illness. What's funny is that we base this belief off facts. They call conservatism a mental illness, based on opinions / narratives they've been fed, but are never able to back it up.
 Quoting: AntiPC


True conservativism believes in living life according to traditional norms. It's the sanest thing in the world.

Liberalism appears to be based on the wholly fallacious idea that man and the world can be perfected and a utopian paradise created right here on earth in our lifetime -- without any historical precedent to back that up!


That's just nuts.
 Quoting: Adytum



Yep, and honestly, I really don't give two fucks about gay marriage (not religious), and I smoke pot. The reason I think liberalism is a mental illness, is mainly from a fiscal point of view. As you said, they believe the government will magically create a utopian society where everyone is rich, happy, and doesn't have to work hard. I spent my whole life working my ass off, now I see Bernie saying he'll give ILLEGALS free healthcare and college? WTF planet is he on?
 Quoting: AntiPC

Socialism AND the welfare state are a failure.

The "sovereign debt crisis" in Europe and our 19 trillion dollar deficit are proof postive of that.


Socialism and American "liberalism" are economic insanity to anybody that doesn't ignore the facts of our economic reality.





As for ganj, if you can smoke it occasionally and it doesn't become a crutch and it doesn't lead to much harder drugs...




then you're a better man than me.

anon


If that's the case, carry on.
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10/18/2015 12:54 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
How to piss off a conservative. ..lievto him
How to piss off a liberal...tell them the truth
Anonymous Coward
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10/18/2015 12:55 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
You can't argue with idiots (liberals included), if they don't have it in their mental capacity to realize whatever your trying to tell them, you telling them, facts or not, isn't going to change their mind about something, they're lost idiots, don't get super worked up about it
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Conservatism and GLP do not mix. Too much inner conflict. It is impossible to be a "conservative" on this forum.

The liberals are actually right. They just don't know why.

If you believe in 9/11 being an inside job and Sandy Hook being a complete hoax and generally have an honest distrust of the government, then there is no way that conservatism, in the Republican sense of the word, is acceptable nor is it ever applicable.

GLP = Liberal.....but from a different perspective.
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
No reason to bother debating a liberal.
Something is wrong with their brain and there's no helping them cause logic and facts don't work on them
Just treat them like zombies and realize there's no cure for them.
AntiPC  (OP)

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10/18/2015 01:00 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
...


Agreed. I truly, truly think liberalism is a mental illness. What's funny is that we base this belief off facts. They call conservatism a mental illness, based on opinions / narratives they've been fed, but are never able to back it up.
 Quoting: AntiPC


True conservativism believes in living life according to traditional norms. It's the sanest thing in the world.

Liberalism appears to be based on the wholly fallacious idea that man and the world can be perfected and a utopian paradise created right here on earth in our lifetime -- without any historical precedent to back that up!


That's just nuts.
 Quoting: Adytum



Yep, and honestly, I really don't give two fucks about gay marriage (not religious), and I smoke pot. The reason I think liberalism is a mental illness, is mainly from a fiscal point of view. As you said, they believe the government will magically create a utopian society where everyone is rich, happy, and doesn't have to work hard. I spent my whole life working my ass off, now I see Bernie saying he'll give ILLEGALS free healthcare and college? WTF planet is he on?
 Quoting: AntiPC

Socialism AND the welfare state are a failure.

The "sovereign debt crisis" in Europe and our 19 trillion dollar deficit are proof postive of that.


Socialism and American "liberalism" are economic insanity to anybody that doesn't ignore the facts of our economic reality.





As for ganj, if you can smoke it occasionally and it doesn't become a crutch and it doesn't lead to much harder drugs...




then you're a better man than me.

anon


If that's the case, carry on.
 Quoting: Adytum


Yes I've been smoking the ganj occasionally for years, but have NEVER tried any other drugs! In fact, I use it as my "anti-gateway drug," because otherwise I'm pretty confident I would've tried other drugs. I am still able to function and manage/run a business.

Last Edited by AntiPC on 10/18/2015 01:13 AM
Welfare won't fix poverty.
AntiPC  (OP)

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10/18/2015 01:03 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Conservatism and GLP do not mix. Too much inner conflict. It is impossible to be a "conservative" on this forum.

The liberals are actually right. They just don't know why.

If you believe in 9/11 being an inside job and Sandy Hook being a complete hoax and generally have an honest distrust of the government, then there is no way that conservatism, in the Republican sense of the word, is acceptable nor is it ever applicable.

GLP = Liberal.....but from a different perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69377630


When I talk about liberalism, generally mean from a fiscal point of view. When I'm debating liberals, it's usually about economic policies / gun control / national debt / welfare damaging the black race.

Last Edited by AntiPC on 10/18/2015 01:03 AM
Welfare won't fix poverty.
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
I wish I had read this before my last family get together, I've learned not to talk politics with the liberals in my family because as you said it's not a worthwhile battle and they are extremely intolerant.

I can listen to their opinions on politics without getting upset but if I say how I feel they will freak out, make me feel guilty and resort to emotional/moral-based arguments.

If they cite anything factual it will be from a source that is biased and questionable, like something some Imam said overseas, or a La Raza organization.
Mystic Gohan

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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
american creationists reek of everything you just said about liberals
AntiPC  (OP)

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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
american creationists reek of everything you just said about liberals
 Quoting: Mystic Gohan


Another topic where there's only an opinion, and no fact (besides a human-written book) to back it up.

Last Edited by AntiPC on 10/18/2015 01:10 AM
Welfare won't fix poverty.
AntiPC  (OP)

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10/18/2015 01:07 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
I wish I had read this before my last family get together, I've learned not to talk politics with the liberals in my family because as you said it's not a worthwhile battle and they are extremely intolerant.

I can listen to their opinions on politics without getting upset but if I say how I feel they will freak out, make me feel guilty and resort to emotional/moral-based arguments.

If they cite anything factual it will be from a source that is biased and questionable, like something some Imam said overseas, or a La Raza organization.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70013402


I'm fortunate to come from a conservative family, but I know exactly how you feel. The same thing happens with my friends, and I've actually lost a lot of friends over getting mad / telling them I never want to talk to them again because they're idiots.
Welfare won't fix poverty.
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10/18/2015 01:10 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Most of the time, arguments (about anything, really) can't be "won".


Reason is not really big with human beings.

You can't reason people out of insanity, and at this point liberalism is mental illness.

Just sayin'
 Quoting: Adytum


hesright
AntiPC  (OP)

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10/18/2015 01:10 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
Most of the time, arguments (about anything, really) can't be "won".


Reason is not really big with human beings.

You can't reason people out of insanity, and at this point liberalism is mental illness.

Just sayin'
 Quoting: Adytum


hesright
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 64826925


hesright
Welfare won't fix poverty.
Anonymous Coward
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10/18/2015 01:13 AM
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
What's a liberal again? I see this word getting thrown around a lot and it seems to get used arbitrarily with little basis or explanation.. just a blah blah liberals this, liberals that, type rant.
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
I wish I had read this before my last family get together, I've learned not to talk politics with the liberals in my family because as you said it's not a worthwhile battle and they are extremely intolerant.

I can listen to their opinions on politics without getting upset but if I say how I feel they will freak out, make me feel guilty and resort to emotional/moral-based arguments.

If they cite anything factual it will be from a source that is biased and questionable, like something some Imam said overseas, or a La Raza organization.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70013402


I'm fortunate to come from a conservative family, but I know exactly how you feel. The same thing happens with my friends, and I've actually lost a lot of friends over getting mad / telling them I never want to talk to them again because they're idiots.
 Quoting: AntiPC


My immediate family was conservative. It's my extended family that are the liberals. I never tell them they are idiots even if I think that.

I used to be a liberal growing up and they haven't quite figured out I'm not anymore. Sometimes I pretend to still have liberal point of view on issues just to keep the peace. So sad!
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Re: How to Debate a Liberal and Win (Avoiding anger and using facts)
For the most part, people believe what they want to believe.

This is especially true if their livelihood depends on not understanding something.

This was probably beneficial in many ways, otherwise mechanisms like "cognitive dissonance" and "normalcy bias" wouldn't be so prevalent.





GLP