A Sure Sign of Weak and Yapping Christians, They Like "apostle" Paul.

The real issue is did the Lord, though his apostles teach grace. The answer of course is yes. The word grace appears 179 times in the NT. The real issue is why you are against the teaching of grace. Christ may have not used the word but taught of mercy and love and inspired his apostles to teach of grace.

Acts, and I/II Peter are full of the lessons of grace as is II John, and Jude.

II Peter 3: 15 - 17

. . and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,…

This reveals that St. Paul’s letters had already become the common property of the churches as Peter references them here and clearly affirms them as from “wisdom given him (Paul) and including, in context these letters, “also the rest of the Scriptures” which can only be denied if you ignore the plain meaning and context of Peter’s endorsement of Paul and his wisdom/teachings.

Obviously you cannot see the Unity in Jesus Christ is Yeshua is the King of the Jews, is the King of Kings, is the Lord of Lords, is the First and the Last, is the Alpha and the Omega, is the Aleph and the Tav, is YHWH is Father God Almighty is the I AM.

Of course this exceeds the capacities of our finite and limited understandings.

We can only glimpse at the incomprehensibility of His Majesty.

No speculation at all - just inconvenient facts you choose to ignore as they destroy your illogical analysis.

II Peter 3: 15 - 17

. . and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,…

This reveals that St. Paul’s letters had already become the common property of the churches as Peter references them here and clearly affirms them as from “wisdom given him (Paul) and including, in context these letters, “also the rest of the Scriptures” which can only be denied if you ignore the plain meaning and context of Peter’s endorsement of Paul and his wisdom/teachings.

All throughout the book of Acts we see Paul identified as a true Apostle. And so we could quote numerous passages affirming this from Acts. However, one striking feature is that in the Acts 15Jerusalem Council Paul played a leading role with the other Apostles such as James and Peter in answering the question about Gentiles being under the law. As the council was in session we see the following:

“And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.” (Acts 15:12)

what say you of this little mind? You dismiss this scripture as well?

Paul and Barnabas spoke after Peter (vv. 7-11) and right before James (vv. 13-21) who concluded the council and gave the final decision that Gentiles are not under the law. This demonstrates that there was 1st century recognition of Paul’s acceptance by the early church and by the Apostles themselves as an authoritative voice.

The Original Apostles confirmed Paul’s Gospel and Apostleship

The 1st century historical documentation on this issue also shows that fourteen years after the Jerusalem affair with Peter and James in Galatians 1:15-19 Paul then went back to Jerusalem again with Barnabas and Titus. According to the 1st century data Paul says the pillars of the church (James, Peter and John) “added nothing to me” (Gal. 2:6). This means that the original Apostles of Jesus added no correction to Paul’s Gospel message which he was preaching after the Jerusalem affair in A.D. 35. Hence, the original Apostles affirmed what Paul was preaching – namely Jesus’ crucifixion as a sacrifice for sins and His resurrection as orthodox theology. Moreover, James, Peter and John all extended their right hand of fellowship to Paul after seeing Paul’s grace (Gal. 2:9). This extremely early data (A.D. 49-54) is a severe blow to the anti-Pauline crowd since it adds one more attestation to the conclusive 1st century case for Paul’s reliability and apostleship. It must be stressed over and over, because it is important, that there is no clear 1st century documentation to the contrary asserting that Paul was not a true Apostle who was close to the original Apostles or that he had a false message.

Ignatius of Antioch (A.D. 35-110)

Ignatius of Antioch was a 1st century pupil of the original Apostles.

(In the early document known as The Martyrdom of Ignatius Ch. 1 we read: “… Ignatius, the disciple of John the apostle, a man in all respects of an apostolic character, governed the Church of the Antiochians with great care…” The 3rd/4th century church historian Eusebius states that Ignatius was the second Bishop of Antioch after the Apostle Peter, Evodius preceding him, which shows that Ignatius was in very close proximity to the Apostles. Eusebius states: “At this time Ignatius was known as the second Bishop of Antioch, Evodius having been the first. Symeon likewise was at that time the second ruler of the church of Jerusalem, the brother of our Saviour having been the first.”(Eusebius, Church History, Book 3, Ch. 22) And: “…Ignatius, who was chosen bishop of Antioch, second in succession to Peter…” (Eusebius, Church History, Book 3, Ch. 36). The 4th/5th century Christian Theodoret also states: “You have no doubt heard of the illustrious Ignatius, who received episcopal grace by the hand of the great Peter, and after ruling the church of Antioch, wore the crown of Martyrdom.” (Theodoret, Dialogues, 1)


This is important because if Paul was a false teacher and usurper, Ignatius, being a follower of the Apostles and their Gospel (he often quoted the Gospels of Matthew and John as well), would have pointed out Paul’s supposed theological errors or commented on Paul being a supposed false Apostle. However, this 1st century martyr Bishop offers early data in support of Paul’s association with the other Apostles as well as Paul’s rightful authority in the church. Ignatius wrote the following in A.D. 110 to the Christians in Rome:

“I do not command you, as Peter and Paul did.”

Ignatius, Letter to the Romans, Ch. 4



This extremely early material is affirming that Paul worked alongside Peter in leading and commanding the Christian church in Rome. Ignatius has other valuable remarks affirming the reliability of the Apostle Paul. For example, in writing to the Christians in Ephesus Ignatius relays that Paul accurately gave the Gospel to the Ephesians, that Paul was martyred for his faith (which also shows Paul’s reliability) as well as his deep respect and honor for Paul:

“You are initiated into the mysteries of the Gospel with Paul, the holy, the martyred, the deservedly most happy, at whose feet may I be found, when I shall attain to God; who in all his Epistles makes mention of you in Christ Jesus.”

Ignatius, Letter to the Ephesians, Ch. 12

16For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 1:17

I stand with the Word of God and the instructions and writings of the apostles.

You can deny the truth all day long but its there for anyone who reads and truly desires the truth.

Jesus never spoke the word "Grace," but Paul claimed it was core to The Gospel. Paul mixed his personal ideas into the Bible, proven by the example of him saying in 1 Cor. 7:12, "Speak I, not the Lord." Paul never personally met Jesus or learned from Him, and only claimed to have heard His Voice when Paul had a fainting spell while traveling in the heat. His companions did not hear any voice from Heaven.

Grace is mentioned throughout the OT and NT Dr Luke in Acts writes of Paul's divine meeting with Christ - your argument is lacking this vital fact.

Paul wrote the words "I/Me/My" far more often than "God/Jesus/Holy Spirit/Lord." In 1 Cor. 4 he speaks of himself literally three times more than The Divivity.

Meaningless - this does not disprove his teachings that Christ is preeminent in all things. Your argument lacks substance and is elementary and has no bearing on the truth of the revelation of Christ to Paul as revealed in Acts. Paul uses the word God over 500 times in his writings.

Paul was not an Apostle because he is not one of the Twelve Apostles spoken of in The Book of Revelation. Nobody called Paul an apostle except for himself and Luke, who was himself not qualified to identify Apostles.

The word apostle means "one sent." - Christ did indeed send Paul on his path if you actually read the book of Acts. Paul received a specific commission from Christ Himself and saw the risen Lord on the road to Damascus.


Paul died by himself, stating "All have left me," and his burial site is unknown.

Even if true this has no merit on anything you are stating here. If you actually read the gospels, all abandoned Christ prior to His death as well. Would you demean the Lord of Lords on this fact?

Paul's Theology is convoluted, not easily explained, far different than that of Jesus, and enables endless dissention among denominations. Jesus' Gospel is concise.

Perhaps "convoluted" by those young in the faith or in error. Witness what Peter, of Paul's teaching states:

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
II Peter 3:16

You say his teachings were different then Jesus' - Christ preached to the Jews - Paul was sent to the Gentiles - suggest you actually READ the book of Acts and see the different teaching (commands and requirements of the OT law), even by Peter, to the Gentiles.


Paul violated Proverbs 10:19 by speaking multitudes of words, so much do that in Acts he caused a man to fall asleep and die by falling out of a window.

You must have skipped over the sermon on the mount - A very long sermon..Since your pointing out Pauls sins..Let me then help you with yours...Again you must have skipped over the previous verses in proverbs;

There is no doubt you are taking this completely out of context and trying to bind others where God has not bound.

Keeping it in context...

Pro 10:18 The one who conceals hatred has lying lips, and whoever utters slander is a fool.
Pro 10:19 When words are many, transgression is not lacking, but whoever restrains his lips is prudent.
Pro 10:20 The tongue of the righteous is choice silver; the heart of the wicked is of little worth.
Pro 10:21 The lips of the righteous feed many, but fools die for lack of sense.

Actually you could keep the entire Proverb in context as it contrast the godly and the wicked. This in no way implies that a preacher that speaks for 30-50 minutes is in sin nor does it limit preaching to any particular length.

Where also from Scripture do you get 30-40 minutes as 'a multitude of words?' Note also that there were miracles of Jesus that were not written down, so much so that even books could not contain them (see John 20:30). Jesus sat in the Temple daily and taught (see Luke 22:53), so did He only teach for 2-3 minutes each day and leave? Very unlikely. Even the Early Christians would go to the Temple daily and gather, fellowship, and to grow spiritually as a body (see Acts 2:46-47).


Paul had to send many corrective letters to his churches, while the True Apostles did not.

Paul was not correcting his teaching but reproving those in the churches who were moving away from true teaching and the Spirit of Christ - just as you do in your lame arguments here.

There is much more about Paul which church types have not the guts to admit. Lol.

Your infantile "LOL" on such a important post belies your infantile thinking and immaturity. You would do well to read God's Word and pray the Holy Spirit grant you understanding of the truth.

2 Peter 2:1-22

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; ...

Jude 1:1-25

Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and brother of James, To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ: May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you. Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. ...

2 John 1:10-11

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

2 Peter 3:16

As he (Paul) does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

Acts 17:11

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

Lol. You think citing these Scriptures validates your weak reading comprehension?

Remember, Fuzzy Boy, this discussion is about Paul, and what he wrote. Tell me, did Paul ever pen, "Speak I, not the Lord?" Do you praise The Lord for that, His Word?

Lol for Joy, God's precious gift as a result of His Wisdom, having nothing to do with a weak and useless Christian system of powerless academia. Is this resonating against your pride?

Jesus never spoke the word "Grace," but Paul claimed it was core to The Gospel. Paul mixed his personal ideas into the Bible, proven by the example of him saying in 1 Cor. 7:12, "Speak I, not the Lord." Paul never personally met Jesus or learned from Him, and only claimed to have heard His Voice when Paul had a fainting spell while traveling in the heat. His companions did not hear any voice from Heaven.

Paul wrote the words "I/Me/My" far more often than "God/Jesus/Holy Spirit/Lord." In 1 Cor. 4 he speaks of himself literally three times more than The Divivity.

Paul was not an Apostle because he is not one of the Twelve Apostles spoken of in The Book of Revelation. Nobody called Paul an apostle except for himself and Luke, who was himself not qualified to identify Apostles.

Paul died by himself, stating "All have left me," and his burial site is unknown.

Paul's Theology is convoluted, not easily explained, far different than that of Jesus, and enables endless dissention among denominations. Jesus' Gospel is concise.

Paul violated Proverbs 10:19 by speaking multitudes of words, so much do that in Acts he caused a man to fall asleep and die by falling out of a window.

Paul had to send many corrective letters to his churches, while the True Apostles did not.

There is much more about Paul which church types have not the guts to admit. Lol.

Lol. You think citing these Scriptures validates your weak reading comprehension?

Remember, Fuzzy Boy, this discussion is about Paul, and what he wrote. Tell me, did Paul ever pen, "Speak I, not the Lord?" Do you praise The Lord for that, His Word?

Lol for Joy, God's precious gift as a result of His Wisdom, having nothing to do with a weak and useless Christian system of powerless academia. Is this resonating against your pride?

You mention pride - how about YOUR pride - you exercise a haughty spirit to think you can dismiss the Word of God - speaking blasphemies against what the Lord has provided us? Who are you to decide what is scripture and what is not?
Peter stated, as above, Paul's teaching may be hard ("which ignorant and unstable people distort")

Are you telling us Peter was in error?

Do you not hold the book of Acts as scripture? Tell us!

"Scripture" literally means "writing." Within the writings of Canonized Scripture, The Constantine Bible, is contained God's Word. As well, the personal words of the authors are therein, such as those of Paul, when he specifies, "Speak I, not the Lord." And do he does so in a number of places.

Christian academia has encouraged you to confuse and intermingle the following aspects of Canonized Scripture:

1.) The actual disclosed Word of God through His Prophets.
2.) The Divine preservation of The Written Text through transcription.
3.) The Divine preservation of the material artifacts of The Text.
4.) The accompanying historic detail, context, and apocryphal references.
5.) The axiomatic contents.
6.) A familiarity with the actions of Christ and The Father amidst the unknowability of them.
7.) Greatly incomplete Spiritual Disclosure amidst Unique Wisdom at times conferred by God.

There is more. Remember, speaking plainly and accurately is not part of pride. Stubbornly presuming to read in between the lines with one's own perception is the core of pride. I see your fat, Fuzzy faced icon, therefore I see you.

Tell me if you praise God for 1 Cor. 7:12.

You mention pride - how about YOUR pride - you exercise a haughty spirit to think you can dismiss the Word of God - speaking blasphemies against what the Lord has provided us? Who are you to decide what is scripture and what is not?
Peter stated, as above, Paul's teaching may be hard ("which ignorant and unstable people distort")

Are you telling us Peter was in error?

Do you not hold the book of Acts as scripture? Tell us!

Why did Christ purposefully not speak of "grace," if it was a "real issue?" Or, perhaps it is not a "real isdue," as you want it to be.

I am beginning to think you are not very educated. You inject supposition as if it is a "real issue."

Lol.

Do you not hold the book of Acts as scripture? Tell us

Why should we believe pails books when they put his in and left out the true chosen disiples books like Thomas and many others. Paul is a stumbling block to the children of Israel.

lol

your ignorance will no longer be bliss following your awakening unto the truth

Paul was the only one who was to teach on three levels

one of which was the Elect

When the falling away happens, because you learn Paul was a liar and imposter to the truth. I don't care if you believe this or not I'm just thankful I was led to the truth by my Wonderful counselor,my prince of peace,my Holy Father.

When the falling away happens, because you learn Paul was a liar and imposter to the truth. I don't care if you believe this or not I'm just thankful I was led to the truth by my Wonderful counselor,my prince of peace,my Holy Father.

So you believe God Almighty, the Creator of the universe and everything in it, who governs in the affairs of men and is Sovereign over all really can't handle getting His Book to us without His Purposes being defeated by evil man.

You believe God can't

because you know better.

You are wrong.

I believe he let Paul get away with his lies and church so that those who are not partakers of his Kingdom never can come to his truth. God alone made you deaf and blind to the obvious. Who can you look to when you discover Paul is a liar. No one because you depended on puls salvation ..

Titus 3 : 10 tells us to end the discussion with people who refuse see the truth.

It is not only for your benefit, but for theirs as well.


The gentlemen has openly and proudly claimed Jesus of Nazareth is not the Messiah. Nor was He the Lamb of God whos blood will cover our sins.


Has been reproved and has rejected the admonition.



Bible instruction is to leave it at that. Not engage him for page after page of back and forth.

Titus 3 : 10 tells us to end the discussion with people who refuse see the truth.

It is not only for your benefit, but for theirs as well.


The gentlemen has openly and proudly claimed Jesus of Nazareth is not the Messiah. Nor was He the Lamb of God whos blood will cover our sins.


Has been reproved and has rejected the admonition.



Bible instruction is to leave it at that. Not engage him for page after page of back and forth.