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The Allegory Of The Cave.

 
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The Allegory Of The Cave.
‘The Allegory of the Cave’ by Plato

In the Allegory of the Cave, Plato distinguishes between people who mistake sensory knowledge for the truth and people who really do see the truth. It goes like this:

The Cave

Imagine a cave, in which there are three prisoners. The prisoners are tied to some rocks, their arms and legs are bound and their head is tied so that they cannot look at anything but the stonewall in front of them.
These prisoners have been here since birth and have never seen outside of the cave.
Behind the prisoners is a fire, and between them is a raised walkway.
People outside the cave walk along this walkway carrying things on their head including; animals, plants, wood and stone.

The Shadows

So, imagine that you are one of the prisoners. You cannot look at anything behind or to the side of you – you must look at the wall in front of you.
When people walk along the walkway, you can see shadows of the objects they are carrying cast on to the wall.
If you had never seen the real objects ever before, you would believe that the shadows of objects were ‘real.’

The Game

Plato suggests that the prisoners would begin a ‘game’ of guessing which shadow would appear next.
If one of the prisoners were to correctly guess, the others would praise him as clever and say that he were a master of nature.

The Escape

One of the prisoners then escapes from their bindings and leaves the cave.
He is shocked at the world he discovers outside the cave and does not believe it can be real.
As he becomes used to his new surroundings, he realizes that his former view of reality was wrong.
He begins to understand his new world, and sees that the Sun is the source of life and goes on an intellectual journey where he discovers beauty and meaning
He see’s that his former life, and the guessing game they played is useless.

The Return

The prisoner returns to the cave, to inform the other prisoners of his findings.
They do not believe him and threaten to kill him if he tries to set them free.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
rose

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BHZP
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
Why would prisoners resist a break out by virtually their brother and on top of that threaten to kill him?

This is as synthetic of a fabrication as exist.

The whole "return" ignores the selfdelivered prerequisite and anticipatable charachter developement.
>S<

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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
Why would prisoners resist a break out by virtually their brother and on top of that threaten to kill him?

This is as synthetic of a fabrication as exist.

The whole "return" ignores the selfdelivered prerequisite and anticipatable charachter developement.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Care to expand on this ?
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
rose

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yoda
>S<

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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73087173


Hehehe :-)
Niiiiice :-)
Anonymous Coward
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04/01/2017 05:32 AM
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
You guys know Aristotle completely rejected Plato and basically called him a fool.
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
rose

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grouphug
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
Why would prisoners resist a break out by virtually their brother and on top of that threaten to kill him?

This is as synthetic of a fabrication as exist.

The whole "return" ignores the selfdelivered prerequisite and anticipatable charachter developement.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Care to expand on this ?
 Quoting: >S<


You put three people in a room, since their birth they've been there.

They've grown old enough to communicate and even issue death threats.

Yet they never attemted to escape before.

They know each other since birth and they know the shadows since birth.

There is no reason why the two remaining should trust the shadow more than their fellow inmate.

I can see how lazy people will fall for such reasoning though as it conveniently delivers a hypothetical "truth" based on fiction.
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04/01/2017 01:12 PM
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
You guys know Aristotle completely rejected Plato and basically called him a fool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74201973


No he didn't. They disagreed on one point:

Plato stated that the soul was prior to matter - that the soul/mind was eternal and was independent of matter.
Aristotle stated that matter was prior to soul - that without matter there was no soul/mind.
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
The truth is that we can not absolutely know if whatever presents us as real is what we really see or if it is something that is fed to us via proxy perhaps even as sum of our redirected self, ergo proxy.

This is simple.

It is because we have no way of "seeing" is real with our own eyes before we are born and after we die.

Maybe we will know once we die and have another reality we will see to which we can then compare our former life, the views we had in it and the sight with which it presented itself to us.

derp.
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
You guys know Aristotle completely rejected Plato and basically called him a fool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74201973


No he didn't. They disagreed on one point:

Plato stated that the soul was prior to matter - that the soul/mind was eternal and was independent of matter.
Aristotle stated that matter was prior to soul - that without matter there was no soul/mind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


Correct
PIR

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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
Welcome to the desert of the real...

Dark City...full movie...enjoy



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Last Edited by PIR on 04/01/2017 01:27 PM
>S<

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04/01/2017 01:28 PM
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
Why would prisoners resist a break out by virtually their brother and on top of that threaten to kill him?

This is as synthetic of a fabrication as exist.

The whole "return" ignores the selfdelivered prerequisite and anticipatable charachter developement.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Care to expand on this ?
 Quoting: >S<


You put three people in a room, since their birth they've been there.

They've grown old enough to communicate and even issue death threats.

Yet they never attemted to escape before.

They know each other since birth and they know the shadows since birth.

There is no reason why the two remaining should trust the shadow more than their fellow inmate.

I can see how lazy people will fall for such reasoning though as it conveniently delivers a hypothetical "truth" based on fiction.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Yeah i can understand where you're going.

However, escaping Plato's cave was not about finding the Truth.
In my understanding, you're only escaping the cave through and by imagination.
You detach from the shadows show presented on the cave's walls and go "outside" inside yourself, roaming the places you never cared to visit because you were chained on your place by the very show you were focused on watching.
The only truth that you may find in your escapement is that you are a prisoner of your own will and that you can be free also only by your own will.
That in itself may be a hard truth for some to digest ?

Last Edited by Gero Nimo on 04/01/2017 01:31 PM
BHZP
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04/01/2017 01:46 PM
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
Why would prisoners resist a break out by virtually their brother and on top of that threaten to kill him?

This is as synthetic of a fabrication as exist.

The whole "return" ignores the selfdelivered prerequisite and anticipatable charachter developement.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Care to expand on this ?
 Quoting: >S<


You put three people in a room, since their birth they've been there.

They've grown old enough to communicate and even issue death threats.

Yet they never attemted to escape before.

They know each other since birth and they know the shadows since birth.

There is no reason why the two remaining should trust the shadow more than their fellow inmate.

I can see how lazy people will fall for such reasoning though as it conveniently delivers a hypothetical "truth" based on fiction.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Yeah i can understand where you're going.

However, escaping Plato's cave was not about finding the Truth.
In my understanding, you're only escaping the cave through and by imagination.
You detach from the shadows show presented on the cave's walls and go "outside" inside yourself, roaming the places you never cared to visit because you were chained on your place by the very show you were focused on watching.
The only truth that you may find in your escapement is that you are a prisoner of your own will and that you can be free also only by your own will.
That in itself may be a hard truth for some to digest ?
 Quoting: >S<


Indeed.

Your interpretation reminds me unwillingly of the tricks our ego will play on us, in order to maintain it's own equillibrium.

Some rather wallow in known pain, as opposed to applying an unknown cure which is vouched for by someone else.

hf
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
...


Care to expand on this ?
 Quoting: >S<


You put three people in a room, since their birth they've been there.

They've grown old enough to communicate and even issue death threats.

Yet they never attemted to escape before.

They know each other since birth and they know the shadows since birth.

There is no reason why the two remaining should trust the shadow more than their fellow inmate.

I can see how lazy people will fall for such reasoning though as it conveniently delivers a hypothetical "truth" based on fiction.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Yeah i can understand where you're going.

However, escaping Plato's cave was not about finding the Truth.
In my understanding, you're only escaping the cave through and by imagination.
You detach from the shadows show presented on the cave's walls and go "outside" inside yourself, roaming the places you never cared to visit because you were chained on your place by the very show you were focused on watching.
The only truth that you may find in your escapement is that you are a prisoner of your own will and that you can be free also only by your own will.
That in itself may be a hard truth for some to digest ?
 Quoting: >S<


Indeed.

Your interpretation reminds me unwillingly of the tricks our ego will play on us

 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


^What does this mean?^

How does 'your' ego play tricks on 'you'? It is 'your' ego that just thought and wrote that so how are you seperating your ego from your identity? Your ego is your identity...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
Will this be the place where sound dies 2.0?
BHZP
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04/01/2017 02:06 PM
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
It is 'your' ego that just thought and wrote that so how are you seperating your ego from your identity? Your ego is your identity...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


What makes you assume all this?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
It is 'your' ego that just thought and wrote that so how are you seperating your ego from your identity? Your ego is your identity...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


What makes you assume all this?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Ego.
BHZP
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
It is 'your' ego that just thought and wrote that so how are you seperating your ego from your identity? Your ego is your identity...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


What makes you assume all this?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Ego.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


So it is your ego telling me that I can not split myself from ego?
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
One of my favorite bed time stories !
BHZP
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
It is 'your' ego that just thought and wrote that so how are you seperating your ego from your identity? Your ego is your identity...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


What makes you assume all this?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Ego.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


So it is your ego telling me that I can not split myself from ego?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


> the tricks our ego will play on us, in order to maintain it's own equillibrium

hf
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
It is 'your' ego that just thought and wrote that so how are you seperating your ego from your identity? Your ego is your identity...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


What makes you assume all this?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Ego.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


So it is your ego telling me that I can not split myself from ego?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Outside of ego, what self are you referring to?
BHZP
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
...


What makes you assume all this?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Ego.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


So it is your ego telling me that I can not split myself from ego?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Outside of ego, what self are you referring to?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


My self.
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Ego.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


So it is your ego telling me that I can not split myself from ego?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Outside of ego, what self are you referring to?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


My self.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Define it.
BHZP
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
...


So it is your ego telling me that I can not split myself from ego?
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Outside of ego, what self are you referring to?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


My self.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Define it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


I'm not an object, I define myself.
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Outside of ego, what self are you referring to?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


My self.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Define it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


I'm not an object, I define myself.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Define your self.
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My self.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Define it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


I'm not an object, I define myself.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Define your self.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


I am.
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Define it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


I'm not an object, I define myself.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Define your self.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


I am.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759


Exactly. A conspicuous lack of identifying noun. You cannot define your self because outside of ego there is no self.
BHZP
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04/01/2017 02:50 PM
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
Exactly. A conspicuous lack of identifying noun. You cannot define your self because outside of ego there is no self.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 60394945


Did I not just define myself outside of ego by writing "I am"?

The nominative is implied by the one who wrote it.

Stahp herping my derp.
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Re: The Allegory Of The Cave.
Why would prisoners resist a break out by virtually their brother and on top of that threaten to kill him?

This is as synthetic of a fabrication as exist.

The whole "return" ignores the selfdelivered prerequisite and anticipatable charachter developement.
 Quoting: BHZP 73378759

jerkit





GLP