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Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 10:54 AM
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Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
It's undisputed that a young girl, Anne Frank, died during WW2, and that that was a tragedy.

However, are the supposed diaries of Anne Frank authentic?


a pictorial/slide-show summary of evidence that the Anne Frank diary is a post-war fake:
[link to home.att.net]

excerpt from the extensive notes.

FROM: [link to home.att.net]

Because of the lawsuit in a German court, the German state forensic bureau, the Bundes Kriminal Amt [BKA] forensically examined the manuscript, which at that point in time consisted of three hardbound notebooks and 324 loose pages bound in a fourth notebook, with special forensic equipment.

The results of tests, performed at the BKA laboratories, showed that “significant” portions of the work, especially the fourth volume, were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint pens were not available before 1951, the BKA concluded those sections must have been added subsequently.

In the end, BKA clearly determined that none of the diary handwriting matched known examples of Anne's handwriting. The German magazine, Der Spiegel, published an account of this report alleging that (a) some editing postdated 1951; (b) an earlier expert had held that all the writing in the journal was by the same hand; and thus (c) the entire diary was a postwar fake.
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 10:59 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
Doesn't surprise me.
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:01 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
Well yes, has been known in Holland since early ninetees.
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:04 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
I did not know this.

I suppose it makes some sense, the prose sounding a little "Old" for a twelve to thirteen year old girl of the day.

But then again, does it matter?
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:05 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
In 1976, Otto Frank took action against Heinz Roth of Frankfurt, who published pamphlets stating the diary was a forgery. The judge ruled that if he published further statements he would be subjected to a 500,000 Deutschmark fine and a six months' jail sentence. Two cases were dismissed by German courts in 1978 and 1979 on the grounds of freedom of speech, as the complaint was not filed by an "injured party". The court ruled in each case that if a further complaint was made by an injured party, such as Otto Frank, a charge of slander could follow.

The controversy reached its peak with the arrest and trial of two neo-Nazis, Ernst Römer and Edgar Geiss, who were tried and found guilty of producing and distributing literature denouncing the diary as a forgery, following a complaint by Otto Frank. During their appeal, a team of historians examined the documents in consultation with Otto Frank, and determined them to be genuine. In 1978, as part of an appeal of the cases won against Römer and Geiss, the German Criminal Court Laboratory, the Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) was asked to examine the kind of paper and the types of ink used in the manuscript of the diary. Although its findings indicated that ink with which the diary was written had been in use during the war, the BKA also concluded that "the later corrections made on the loose-leaf pages were written in part in black, green and blue ballpoint pen," though the BKA did not give any specific details about these alleged ballpoint corrections. Deniers of the authenticity of the diary focused in particular on this statement, as ballpoint pens did not become widely available until after the end of the World War II.

In 1986, the Dutch "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" (State Forensic Science Laboratory) in Rijswijk conducted another extensive technical examination of the manuscript. Though the BKA was invited by the "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" to indicate where on the loose-leaf pages it had found the "ballpoint corrections", the BKA was unable to point out a single example. The "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" itself found only two slips of paper in ballpoint ink which had been inserted in Anne Frank's loose leaf manuscript. The Revised Critical Edition of the Diary of Anne Frank (published 2003) reproduces images (pages 167-171) of the two slips of paper, and in the chapter summarising the findings of the State Forensic Science Laboratory which analysed the materials, ink and handwriting in the manuscripts of Anne Frank, H.J.J. Hardy writes on the matter:

The only ballpoint writing was found on two loose scraps of paper included among the loose sheets. Figures VI-I-I and 3 show the way in which these scraps of paper had been inserted into the relevant plastic folders. As far as the factual contents of the diary are concerned the ballpoint writings have no significance whatsoever. Morever, the handwriting on the scraps of paper and in the diary differs strikingly.(page 167)

A footnote on this page adds:

The Hamburg psychologist and court-appointed handwriting expert Hans Ockleman stated in a letter to the Anne Frank Fonds dated September 27, 1987 that his mother, Mrs Dorothea Ockleman wrote the ballpoint texts in question when she collaborated with Mrs Minna Becker in investigating the diaries.

With Otto Frank's death in 1980, the original diary, including letters and loose sheets, had been willed to the Netherlands Institute for War Documentation, who commissioned a forensic study of the diary through the Netherlands Ministry of Justice in 1986. They examined the handwriting against known exemplars and found that they matched, and determined that the paper, glue and ink were readily available during the time the diary was said to have been written. Their final determination was that the diary is authentic. On March 23, 1990, the Hamburg Regional Court confirmed its authenticity.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/23/2007 11:07 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
Versions of the "Anne Frank diary"

1944 The diary of Anne Frank.
1945 Copy by Otto Frank
1945 Copy by Otto Frank and Isa Cauvern
1946 New version of the copy by Otto Frank and Isa Cauvern;
1946 New-new version of the copy by Albert Cauvern
1947 New-new-new version by Otto Frank;
1947 New-new-new-new version by Otto Frank and the "Censors";
1947 Contact edition was a failure
1948 Meyer Levin rewrites the entire diary and it sells 60,000,000 copies
1950 Lambert Schneider book edition (off Levin's diaries) radically different from the preceding one
1955 Fischer edition () taking up again the preceding one in a "discreetly" (?) reworked and retouched form.
1986 The Diary of Anne Frank: The Critical Edition (1989),
1991 The 'Definitive' Edition ...Inserts sexual pages for spice
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/23/2007 11:11 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
The problems

The ball point pen

The results of tests performed at the BKA laboratories show that portions of the work, specially of the fourth volume, were written with a ballpoint pen. And all four volumes were written by the same hand.

Writing style

Any informed literary inspection of this book, would have shown it to have been impossible as the work of a teenager.

Handwriting

Unbelievers had observed that there are two handwritings in the Diary : a handwriting in print letters, that looks childish, and a handwriting in manuscript letters, that looks adult.

Pictures

Any pictures that surfaced were quickly bought up. You couldn't let a 13 yr old Anne be seen at the beach if she was hiding in an attic. Auschwitz postcards caused a similar problem.

The Annex

The Annex, which was mostly glass, sat on a city park
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:13 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
You're just saying that because she's jewish

AntiSemite!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/23/2007 11:15 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
Handwriting:

Anne Frank's Handwriting
ROBERT FAURISSON

One reason for skepticism about the famous diary attributed to Anne Frank is the existence of strikingly different samples of handwriting supposedly written by her within a two and a half year period. [link to www.ihr.org]

[link to home.att.net]
[link to www.radioislam.org]
[link to home.att.net]
[link to home.att.net]
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:17 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
Again, in case you missed it, rather than ignored it because it didn't fit your Nazilicious frame of reference:

The only ballpoint writing was found on two loose scraps of paper included among the loose sheets. Figures VI-I-I and 3 show the way in which these scraps of paper had been inserted into the relevant plastic folders. As far as the factual contents of the diary are concerned the ballpoint writings have no significance whatsoever. Morever, the handwriting on the scraps of paper and in the diary differs strikingly.

The Hamburg psychologist and court-appointed handwriting expert Hans Ockleman stated in a letter to the Anne Frank Fonds dated September 27, 1987 that his mother, Mrs Dorothea Ockleman wrote the ballpoint texts in question when she collaborated with Mrs Minna Becker in investigating the diaries.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/23/2007 11:23 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
The BKA was forced to redact its ballpoint pen findings by the jews.

So it's not surprising that the BKA declined to provide evidence to the Hamburg court.

The original BKA findings:
1) parts of the diaries were written in ball point pen
2) ball point pens did not become available until 1951
3) the entire diary is written in the same handwriting

conclusion: anne frank could not have been the person who wrote the diary, because that person added entries after 1951, which anne frank could not have done, being (unfortunately) dead.

---

interesting aside: above notes the problem of pictures of anne frank, which were quickly bought up, because apparently these pictures contradicted the story of hiding in the annex. the similar problem of postcards from auschwitz is brought up. apparently these post cards are not consistent with the "death camp" holohoax version of history.

Post cards from Auschwitz:
[link to judicial-inc.biz]
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:25 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
I don't know and I don't care if she wrote it herself or not, but you're wrong about the ballpoint pen timeframe.



The first great success for the ballpoint pen came on an October morning in 1945 when a crowd of over 5,000 people jammed the entrance of New York’s Gimbels Department Store. On that first day of sales, Gimbels sold out its entire stock of 10,000 pens-at $12.50 each.

Actually, this "new" pen wasn't new at all. The story begins in 1888 when John Loud, an American leather tanner, patented a roller-ball-tip marking pen. Loud’s invention featured a reservoir of ink and a roller ball that applied the thick ink to leather hides. John Loud’s pen was never produced, nor were any of the other 350 patents for ball-type pens issued over the next thirty years. The major problem was the ink - if the ink was thin the pens leaked, and if it was too thick, they clogged. Depending on the temperature, the pen would sometimes do both.

The next stage of development came almost fifty years after Loud’s patent, with an improved version invented in Hungary in 1935 by Ladislas Biro and his brother, Georg.  

Ladislas Biro was very talented and confident of his abilities, but he had never had a pursuit that kept his interest and earned him a good living.  He had studied medicine, art, and hypnotism, and in 1935 he was editing a small newspaper-where he was frustrated by the amount of time he wasted filling fountain pens and cleaning up ink smudges.  Besides that, the sharp tip of his fountain pen often scratched or tore through the newsprint (paper). Determined to develop a better pen, Ladislas and Georg (who was a chemist) set about making models of new designs and formulating better inks to use in them.

One summer day while vacationing at the seashore, the Biro brothers met an interesting elderly gentleman, Augustine Justo, who happened to be the president of Argentina.   After the brothers showed him their model of a ballpoint pen, President Justo urged them to set up a factory in Argentina. 

When World War II broke out in Europe, a few years later, the Biros fled to Argentina, stopping in Paris along the way to patent their pen.

Once in Argentina, the Biros found several investors willing to finance their invention, and in 1943 they had set up a manufacturing plant.  Unfortunately, the pens were a spectacular failure. The Biro pen, like the designs that had preceded it, depended on gravity for the ink to flow to the roller ball. This meant that the pens worked only when they were held more or less straight up, and even then the ink flow was sometimes too heavy, leaving smudgy globs on the paper. 

The Biro brothers returned to their laboratory and devised a new design, which relied on "capillsry action" rather than gravity to feed the ink.  The rough "ball" at the end of the pen acted like a metal sponge, and with this improvement ink could flow more smoothly to the ball, and the pen could be held at a slant rather than straight up.  One year later, the Biros were selling their new, improved ballpoint pen throughout Argentina. But it still was not a smashing success, and the men ran out of money.

The greatest interest in the ballpoint pen came from American flyers who had been to Argentina during World War II. Apparently it was ideal for pilots because it would work well at high altitudes and, unlike fountain pens, did not have to be refilled frequently.

The U.S. Department of State sent specifications to several American pen manufacturers asking them to develop a similar pen.  In an attempt to corner the market, the Eberhard Faber Company paid the Biro brothers $500,000 for the rights to manufacture their ballpoint pen in the United States. Eberhard Faber later sold its rights to the Eversharp Company, but neither was quick about putting a ballpoint pen on the market. There were still too many bugs in the Biro design.

Meanwhile, in a surprise move, a fifty-four-year-old Chicago salesman named Milton Reynolds became the first American manufacturer to market a ballpoint pen successfully. While vacationing in Argentina, Reynolds had seen Biro’s pen in the stores and thought that the novel product would sell well in America.  Because many of the patents had expired, Reynolds thought he could avoid any legal problems, and so he went about copying much of the Biros’ design.  It was Reynolds who made the deal with Gimbels to be the first retail store in America to sell ballpoint pens.  He set up a makeshift factory with 300 workers who began stamping out pens from whatever aluminum was not being used for the war.  In the months that followed, Reynolds made millions of pens and became fairly wealthy, as did many other manufacturers who decided to cash in on the new interest.

The competition among pen manufacturers during the mid-1940s became quite hectic, with each one claiming new and better features. Reynolds even claimed that his ballpoint could write under water, and he hired Esther Williams, the swimmer and movie star, to help prove it. Another manufacturer claimed that its pen would write through ten carbon copies, while still another demonstrated that its pen would write up-side down.  However, the effect of the slogans and advertising wore off as soon as the owners discovered the many problems that still existed with the ballpoint pens. As the sale of the pens began to drop, so did the price, and the once expensive luxury now would not even sell for as little as 19 cents.  Once again, it looked as if the ballpoint pen would be a complete failure.  For the pen to regain the public’s favor and trust, somebody would have to invent one that was smooth writing, quick drying, nonskipping, nonfading, and most important didn’t leak.

Two men, each with his own pen company, delivered these results.  The first was Patrick J. Frawley Jr.  Frawley met Fran Seech, an unemployed Los Angeles chemist who had lost his job when the ballpoint pen company he was working for had gone out of business. Seech had been working on improvements in ballpoint ink, and on his own he continued his experiments in a tiny cubbyhole home laboratory.  Frawley was so impressed with his work that he bought Seech’s new ink formula in 1949 and started the Frawley Pen Company.  Within one year, Frawley was in the ballpoint pen business with yet another improved model-the first pen with a retractable ballpoint tip and the first with no-smear ink.  To overcome many of the old prejudices against the leaky and smeary ballpoint pen of the past, Frawley initiated an imaginative and risky advertising campaign, a promotion he called Project Normandy.  Frawley instructed his salesmen to barge into the offices of retail store buyers and scribble all over the executives’ shirts with one of the new pens.  Then the salesman would offer to replace the shirt with an even more expensive one if the ink did not wash out entirely.   The shirts did come clean and the promotion worked.  As more and more retailers accepted the pen, which Frawley named the "Papermate," sales began to skyrocket. Within a few years, the Papermate pen was selling in the hundreds of millions.

The other man to bring the ballpoint pen successfully back to life was Marcel Bich, a French manufacturer of penholders and pen cases.  Bich was appalled at the poor quality of the ballpoint pens he had seen and he was also shocked at their high cost. But he recognized that the ballpoint was a firmly established innovation and he resolved to design a high-quality pen at a low price that would scoop the market.  He went to the Biro brothers and arranged to pay them a royalty on their patent.  Then for two years Marcel Bich studied the detailed construction of every ballpoint pen on the market, often working with a microscope.  By 1952 Bich was ready to introduce his new wonder: a clear-barreled, smooth-writing, non-leaky, inexpensive ballpoint pen he called the "Ballpoint Bic."  The ballpoint pen had finally become a practical writing instrument.  The public accepted it without complaint, and today it is as standard a writing implement as the pencil. In England, they are still called Biros, and many Bic models also say "Biro" on the side of the pen, as a testament to their primary inventors. 


[link to www.ideafinder.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:26 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
The ballpoint pen developed by Ladislas Biro in 1943, which served as the design standard for the practical and low-priced writing instruments that flooded the world market in later years, was named an ASME Historic Mechanical Engineering Landmark at a ceremony held Sept. 29, 2005, in Buenos Aires, Argentina

[link to www.asmenews.org]
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:28 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
* The principle of the ball point pen actually dates to 1888 when a patent was taken out by John J. Loud for a product to mark leather, however this patent was not exploited commercially.

* Biro first patented the pen in 1938 and applied for a fresh patent in Argentina on June 10, 1943 (Ladislo and his brother Georg emigrated to Argentina in 1940.)

* The licensing rights to this patent were bought by the British Government for the war effort, the British Royal Air Force needed a new type of pen, one that would not leak at high altitudes in fighter planes like the fountain pen did. Their successful performance for the air force brought the Biro pen into the limelight.

* Commercially ball point pens were sold first in Buenos Aires in 1945 by Eterpen Co.

* Biro had forgotten to get a U.S. Patent and so even with the end of World War II, the Battle of the Ballpoint Pen was just beginning.

[link to www.ideafinder.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:29 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
The original BKA findings:
1) parts of the diaries were written in ball point pen
2) ball point pens did not become available until 1951
3) the entire diary is written in the same handwriting

conclusion: anne frank could not have been the person who wrote the diary, because that person added entries after 1951, which anne frank could not have done, being (unfortunately) dead.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 167675


Pay attention:

The "parts" were two loose scraps of paper written in another hand by a woman investigating the diary.

But don't mind me. Enjoy your hate. It's all you have, when you don't have truth.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/23/2007 11:37 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
the BKA said that ballpoint pens were not available, not that they did not exist anywhere in the world.

David Irving replies to this counterargument, in part:
"What is the significance of ballpoint pens being "available" in Britain in the 1930s? (They were not). So far as I know Anne did not visit our country, and even when first available after the war the "Biros" were clumsy, messy, and hideously expensive."
[link to www.stormfront.org]

The other discrepancies mentioned above remain, especially the obvious mismatch between some parts, which appear as one would expect the handwriting of a 13 yo to appear, and others which appear to be written in a mature hand (see links above).
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/23/2007 11:40 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
The "parts" were two loose scraps of paper written in another hand by a woman investigating the diary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 147274

the BKA stated that the handwriting that was in ballpoint pen, and the handwriting of the rest of the diary, was the same.

i don't accept the Hamburg court result that the ballpoint pen was only on loose scraps, but EVEN IF THAT WERE SO, logic still dictates that none of the diary was written by anne frank.

handwriting samples alone prove that the diary was not written by anne frank. it doesn't take an expert to tell the difference between the known 13 yo's writing, and the adults writing in the supposed diary: [link to www.radioislam.org]
gsbltd
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02/23/2007 11:42 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
This is such CRAP! I'm not disputing that the diaries may have been written in ballpoint pen... but they WERE available BEFORE 1951.

I just did a quick GOOGLE and found that the earliest pens were created in the late 1890's!! In fact: the first patent for a balllpoint was in Hungary [not so far from Germany, eh?] in 1935.

Before you stupid people make such outlandish claims, how about a little fact-checking???

What lousy reporters you would make! Thank GOD you don't create the news that foolish, lazy people take for granted!!!
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:43 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
What the hell did you expect from Talmudists???????????.
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:43 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 167675


Then it must be true.

:hitler:
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/23/2007 11:49 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
ok, look: [link to home.att.net]

anne frank's writing on picture, that of 13 yo
the writing in diary, the script of an adult.
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 11:59 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
ok, look: [link to home.att.net]

anne frank's writing on picture, that of 13 yo
the writing in diary, the script of an adult.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 167675



That is some damning evidence there.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/23/2007 12:01 PM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
Apparently not only the German BKA experts (Germany's equivalent of the FBI) believed that ballpoint pens were not avialable, IN GERMANY before 1951, even though they had been invented earlier:

from: [link to www.ihr.org]
Pierre Vidal-Naquet in 1980: 'A Doctored Text'

In 1980, the prominent French Jewish scholar Pierre Vidal-Naquet, in whose eyes I am nothing but an "assassin of memory" (Jewish memory, it is understood), nonetheless wrote:[note 2]

(my note: Vidal-Naquet is in general disagrees with historical revisionists, but nevertheless is forced in this case to admit they are right)

It sometimes happens that Faurisson is right. I have said publicly, and repeat here, that when he shows that the Anne Frank diary is a doctored text, he may not be right in all details, [but] he is certainly right overall and an expert examination made for the Hamburg court has just shown that, in effect, this text was at the very least revised after the war, since [it was written] using ballpoint pens which appeared only in 1951. That is plain, clear and precise.
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 12:11 PM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
The text on the photograph is not cursive. How can you compare them? Depending on the circumstances in which I'm forced to write, my hand can look much less sophisticated than usual. And between the two examples she moved to her hiding place, which was a circumstance I've never experienced. You neither, I bet.

And I don't imagine you're a handwriting expert. Neither am I. But those who are have stated her diary was written in her hand. (But I guess the Jews made them say that.)
20-40

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02/23/2007 12:13 PM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
The ballpoint pen was available in Europe and Argentina, a trade partner with Germany, for many years before this.

"In the period between 1900 and 1940, there was intense interest in improving writing instruments, particularly alternatives or improvements to the fountain pen. Slavoljub Eduard Penkala invented a solid-ink fountain pen in 1907, a German inventor called Baum took out a ballpoint patent in 1910, and yet another ballpoint pen device was patented by Van Vechten Riesburg in 1916."

"Bíró filed a British patent on 15 June, 1938."

"In 1940 the Bíró brothers and a friend, Juan Jorge Meyne, moved to Argentina fleeing nazi Germany and on June 10, filed another patent, and formed Bíró Pens of Argentina. The pen was sold in Argentina under the Birome brand (acronym of Biro and Meyne), which is how ballpoint pens are still known in that country. Laszlo was known in Argentina as Ladislao José Bíró. This new design was licensed by the British, who produced ball point pens for RAF aircrew, who found they worked much better than fountain pens at high altitude."

For God's sake, Anne Frank wasn't American...
Derek One Seven (Viable Light Being) on Spiritual warfare thread:

quote 1: 20-40, you seem to take a page out of Nazi Joesph Goebbells', and Adolf Hitler's handbooks (about need to repeat a lie) THEN:
quote 2: 20-40, it is of no surprise to me that you, an obviously concienceless pervert.
quote 3: 20-40, it is of no surprise to me that you, an obviously concienceless pervert.
quote 4: and you are a liar, with admitted connections to the CIA.
quote 5: you are a hypocritical pervert, with admitted connections to the CIA.
quote 6: you are an obvious concienceless hypocrite and pervert, 20-40.

Over and over and over and over. Same post with few sentences added or omitted, same lies and whatever I have tried to say, he has ignored it, and keep posting the same.
BTW, I swear on bible that I have never tried to warn him about misspelled word "concienceless".
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2007 12:41 PM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
ok, look: [link to home.att.net]

anne frank's writing on picture, that of 13 yo
the writing in diary, the script of an adult.



That is some damning evidence there.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 199671


Dayum! It sucks when the truth surfaces.
AC
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02/23/2007 12:42 PM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
From Consumer Reports Website: (historical)

Ballpoint pens, 1949
The average price has recently dropped from $9 to less than a dollar. One of our tests uses this device, which measures how long each pen lasts before running out of ink.

Not having to do with when they originated, but it seems to confirm prices would've been in the $10-dollar range a few years earlier, certainly during the war, if available at all. That would be like owning a $100? $500 pen today? Is it likely they would've owned one? Or allowed Anne to write with it if they did?

In literary circles there is a great deal of question as to the authenticity.
AC
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02/23/2007 12:45 PM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
ok, look: [link to home.att.net]

anne frank's writing on picture, that of 13 yo
the writing in diary, the script of an adult.



That is some damning evidence there.


Dayum! It sucks when the truth surfaces.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 199884


Interesting! Now, my own handwriting looks a lot different in the script and printed versions, however her NAME should at least look the same. There doesn't seem to be any consistency. War Stress? Really, I don't think the whole Holocaust depends on these diaries. Fake is fake.
PACNWguy

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02/23/2007 12:48 PM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
Half of the people who dont believe Anne had a ball point pen believe Hitler had flying saucers and bases on the moon.

laugh
OBAMA - THE FASTEST FAILED PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY

"I inherated and I am Great!"
Anonymous Coward
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04/06/2012 01:12 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
Half of the people who dont believe Anne had a ball point pen believe Hitler had flying saucers and bases on the moon.

laugh
 Quoting: PACNWguy


The Diary of Ann Frank is fiction and recorded in the library of congress as such.
Anonymous Coward
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04/06/2012 01:19 AM
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Re: Anne Frank diarie(s) were post-war fraud -- written in ball point pen not available until 1951
It it's too good to be true...





GLP