TWIN PEAKS: THE RETURN - Discuss the past, present and future of all things Twin Peaks

In regard to the place symbolised by the sign that Bad Cooper had, it was Bad Cooper that was trying to get there. He also says to Richard he is "Looking for a place. Do you understand a place"?

Was he going to kill Laura there or was there some other reason? Maybe it was so Bob could finally possess her there.

With both Bad Cooper and Bob gone, would then Laura need saving?

Couldn't the Mother just make another Bob-type to kill her off before New Cooper got there?

Who is Audrey's Billy?

Could it be none other than....

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Was this just a season 2 in-joke or (which) reality check?

Last Edited by keybored on 09/06/2017 10:14 AM

At 39.21 in episode 17, it sounds like some audio has been inserted and sped up really fast, when the masked man is coming down the stairs, after Philip and Cooper go up them.

Could never get into it, i tried a few times but could never get past three episodes of it.

Do you meant the new series or the original?

Further thoughts...

Harry S Truman was president when the USA tested the atomic bomb in New Mexico (episode 8), and then bombed Japan.

Harry S Truman - Sheriff of twin Peaks.

It used to be assumed this was just coincidence. Do we need to look more at this connection now that they are linked?

Last Edited by keybored on 09/06/2017 12:13 PM

Really out of field musings here, but is TP the story of a rapist and the person he raped and that both are trying to come to terms with it or deal with the situation?

With the Diane/Naido connection, is the fact that Laura is an anagram of Aural relevant? Laura hears her name at the end and screams.

"Diane" is the first thing Dale Cooper says in the show.

We have Dale, who shows no emotion and Diane who clearly isn't enjoying the sex, so it brings up the question of why they did it? If it wasn't a sex magic ritual to cross over, is it because they are replaying their roles again and again till he realises what he did wrong to her and her to come to terms with what happened?

Last Edited by keybored on 09/06/2017 12:51 PM

Beast, I'm reading through your posts and will update a little later. Thank you so much for the information on Marjorie Cameron! Diane really does look like her!

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I was just reading a small biography on her and apparently Parsons called her Candida, and "Candy" as a nickname.

She was also a chain smoker like Diane. Yet another interesting connection.

every mandala naturally divides into quarters. The N.E.W.S. north, east, west and south. suppose you sight thru the scope of your rifle and could only see three-quarters of the whole picture, you'd be unwise to take a shot.

I'm back and ready for more. I'm trying hard to catch up here while at the same time, I'm not reading ahead. And I'm not looking at other websites to see what other people are saying. This might backfire on some of my replies, but I'm trying hard to not listen to what anybody else is thinking - apart from you guys as I get to your posts one by one - so as to form my own opinions before reading too much other online babble. After all, part of the beauty of Twin Peaks is that it is done by a true artist - David Lynch - who LOVES the fact that everybody interprets his art differently. And we sure do.

So let's jump right into that magical mailbag. It looks like we have some more trolls hiding in there. What a surprise...










The fact that you don't even know what contemporary art is - or are you just sweeping away thousands upon thousands of artists from the last century with the sweep of your lonely and callused hand - means that you are in no position to judge it. I highly doubt that you watched Twin Peaks: The Return at all or you would never be able to say what you are saying. Compared to the rest of television - Twin Peaks is pure genius.

And I'll go ahead and address the car ride right now since this troll brought it up. I thought it was great. Like Carrie/Laura said along the ride - "it's a long way". We had gone through 28 years to get to that point - in the storyline, they had gone through 25 years. And Lynch didn't want to rush it. It IS a long way from Texas to Washington and that is what that car ride represented. We were meant to feel it. And the anticipation - if you actually cared about the end result - was palpable. And it sums up everything there is to say about a David Lynch production - where you wind up is not half as important as the journey itself. And things shouldn't always be rushed. That final car ride was a time for reflection. Especially the first time through.

I KNEW there would be people bitching about that car ride the minute I saw it. It's so typical.










You really found it hard to watch? I thought it was wonderful. I was worried that things were getting TOO wrapped up. And then we learned about the sex magic rituals and just what kind of inter-dimensional galactic goose chase hunting down Jiao Dai really is for Agent Cooper, Diane Evans, and Gordon Cole. And the show itself just took on a MUCH deeper meaning. I loved it!










Wow! Your ignorance shows. As it turns out, Monica Bellucci playing herself is a VERY important scene. It is when OUR very own reality started creeping into Twin Peaks: The Return. The fact that you don't understand THAT and that you think like you do about the women Lynch hires begins to explain why you didn't understand Twin Peaks: The Return in general and says a LOT about YOU in general.










You can hate the finale all you want. As long as you actually watched it from beginning to end, I have NO problem with you hating the ending. Hell, you can hate the whole thing. As long as you watched it to have that opinion. Most people that are here putting it down, DIDN'T watch it. You can tell.

I think the general consensus on your other comment is that if you were a TRUE Lynch fan, then you would at least accept - if not appreciate, love and embrace - those very moments that you are putting down. There has been pacing like that with moments of silence - in art it is called "negative space" - in almost ALL of his work. Starting with Eraserhead. The pacing has always been something that a true Lynch fan WOULD like. Because it's what he does - it's part of who he is as an artist. If the pacing bothers you, then - plain and simple - you truly are NOT a real David Lynch fan. And THAT'S why. To give you an answer. I'm not just throwing it at you or trying to defend his work. And if you didn't like Twin Peaks: The Return then you probably aren't a true Twin Peaks fan either. Unless, like some, you watched it in the past for all of the wrong soap opera reasons.

I'm not trying to put anyone down. But David Lynch is an abstract artist and always has been. Thankfully, he didn't compromise his art in Twin Peaks: The Return to make people like yourself satisfied. It is abstract art for television. Something that everyone should be damn glad to have even if they don't like Lynch's particular brand of it. I'm sorry that you were disappointed in Twin Peaks: The Return. But so was a LOT pf people over 25 years ago. And then television spent over 25 years trying to catch up and reproduce it. And here we are again.

"Is it future, or is it past"?










Like most of the trolls here, it's obvious from what you wrote that you have not watched it.

The sad part is, what you wrote might have actually been funny if you knew how to write, string words together, and turn a phrase. Which, sadly, you don't.










Well, it was on Showtime. So you couldn't have watched the new ones on Netflix anyways. But that means that you shouldn't really be reading this thread. So I'm not going to worry about giving you spoilers.

Laura was made to look older. I think so that when they made her up to be young again in some of the scenes in Part 17/Part 18 it would look even more like the past had been altered.










Okay. Let's talk about this...

THE CAR RIDE - You're complaining about a scene. Would you have rather they just took it out? Made the whole thing 10 minutes shorter? I sure don't. I LOVED the time for reflection during the car ride. The soundtrack during that part was wonderful ambient sound. You were supposed to be listening and falling into the moment. Obviously, you didn't. But if you're really thinking that they could have shortened that to give you something ELSE, then you're trying to control what was being made. And that's one of the great lessons that David Lynch was trying to teach to newer filmmakers when he took complete control of his project away from Showtime. You weren't going to see Audrey or whatever you would have liked to have seen. Cutting the car trip would have simply shortened the film. And I'm REAL glad that he left it in.

THE FINALE - Now, here's a VERY important point. It DID end after Part 17. Or, more specifically, shortly into Part 18. You had YOUR ending if that's what you wanted. Lynch took us PAST the ending and let us see what the results of that ending were. And part of that was the car ride with Laura. It wasn't meant for people that were only watching the show on the surface. Not that you are one of those. And you are certainly allowed to have your own opinion. I'm just glad that David Lynch couldn't care any less about the things that you are bringing up and that he gave us what HE wanted to give us. Which I gladly accept and am very grateful for.










Heya keybored! I was wondering where you were.

It wasn't a third season. It was an 18 hour film. Part 17 WAS fantastic. But life doesn't always put a cherry on top at the end of things. And I'm glad that David Lynch doesn't either.

It ended brilliantly so that it can all end forever right here or easily continue onwards. I suspect that when Agent Cooper said to Gordon Cole, "see you at the curtain call", he meant just that. There will be ONE final installment. A movie. Called Twin Peaks: Curtain Call.

Netflix already told David Lynch that if Showtime didn't treat him right, they would be happy to finish the story. The only reason that Lynch didn't want to go with Netflix is because he didn't want anybody binge watching Twin Peaks: The Return. For a final movie - it won't matter. So I believe that if Showtime doesn't take it - Netflix will. And we will be seeing one final movie that will finish the showdown with Agent Cooper, Diane Evans and Gordon Cole against The Black Lodge forces and that ancient evil and dreamer of worlds - Jiao Dai.

As for watching the movie differently, you know that I believe in the link points. There was a GREAT one during Part 18 that explained a LOT. I'll talk about it more in depth after your next message.










As I mentioned in my previous post yesterday, I believe that a sex magick ritual occurred that allowed Agent Cooper and Diane Evans to traverse their way through time and space and land in a different timeline/reality/dimension/dream. And that it was possibly the SAME sex magick ritual - whether or not it was performed by them or somebody else - that caused the frogroach to enter the young girl's mouth. Which, I'm pretty sure, represents the Mother - Jiao Dai - entering a young Sarah Palmer. Now, HERE'S the classic link point (I LOVED this and thought it was such a cool way to give us those answers - that it WAS Sarah Palmer and that it WAS most likely caused by a sex magick ritual - though we aren't sure if it was Cooper and Diane's sex magick ritual that caused it).



THE BEST LINK POINT EVER!

If you start the sex magick ritual scene in the Motel during Part 18, and sync up The Platters song "My Prayer" with the same song from Part 8, Diane starts putting her hands all over Cooper's face and squeezing it at the exact same time that the Woodsman is squeezing the Disc Jockey's face. Which connects the two scenes. And, to me, means that a sex magick ritual - perhaps the exact same one - was going on when the frogroach crawled into the girl's mouth in New Mexico. OR, like the sex magick ritual that allowed Cooper and Diane to travel to other timelines/realities/dimensions/dreams, the poem read over the airwaves by the smoking Woodsman in Part 8 was a similar ritual that caused something to happen that shouldn't be happening and which doesn't normally happen.










DIANE

Yego awayer asked Diane to kiss him in the parked car before embarking on their inter-dimensional journey since once they cross over "it could all be different" and they might not be able to.

In the original Twin Peaks as well as the Fire Walk With Me timeline/dream - which is a different timeline/dream if you look closely and which then also explains Donna looking different - Diane is Agent Cooper's secretary back in the Philadelphia FBI office. They communicate via his recording device which he then sends to her - probably daily - and which she then transcribes and puts in the archives.

In Twin Peaks: The Return, they are - like I always suspected - in a completely different timeline/dream. I think this all represents the Infinity Loop that they are on - they have traversed this path MANY times in the past. Anyways, in Twin Peaks: The Return, Diane has become Naido. Cooper has to find her and trust her enough to allow her to flip that switch so that he goes through the correct electrical socket and she goes flying off into space - eventually floating down the vortex and arriving 253 yards east of Jack Rabbits Palace. They didn't exactly know each other in this timeline/dream, but can sense each other's presence and then seek each other out. Like they did at the Twin Peaks Sheriff's Department.

In the NEW timeline/reality/dimension/dream, Diane is now Linda. And from her note, we can deduce that she will not be able to recognize Cooper this time around. And, even if she does, she will think that it is Richard that she is seeing. And Linda no longer wants anything to do with Richard. We will hopefully learn a LOT more about all of this in Twin Peaks: Curtain Call.










I agree. And hopefully, I've given you a few more things to think about.








I'm going to post this and start working on the next batch of messages. This seems to be a good way to get all of my thoughts out and respond to what you're all saying. Though I'm a little surprised at just how much some people seem to have been disappointed. It's beyond the usual trolling here. There are obviously some upset people that actually DID watch it. All I can say is - repeated viewings help this a lot. And I think that the more we talk about it and figure it out in detail, the better it will get. For you.

For me, it's already there...



Last Edited by BEAST333 on 09/06/2017 03:50 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong BEAST333, I loved 18 also and thought it was a fantastically brilliant way to end the show, especially the way it built up to the arrival at Sarah's house and what then happened, but 17 gave us Coop and most of the gang back together, fleeting though that moment was.

He gave everyone the ending they wanted, depending on which they chose to pick.

I plan on re-watching both episodes today or tomorrow so will have more thoughts on it all then. My head is still spinning for now lol

Major Briggs has always reminded me of Van Morrison, the great singer and mystic. and the waitress in Judy's was played by Clint Eastwood's daughter. by chance i had seen her in a movie the night before the finale, it was called The Vault, about a bank robbery at a haunted bank. she has such a unique face and interesting acting style, i'm surprised she's not a superstar.
the address of the Palmer house is a number that reduces to 6, number of The Hex. these and other thoughts have crossed my weary mind and i post them in case anybody can relate.

Hello Again!

I just can't get enough of you guys. And talking about the Twin Peaks: The Return finale. Again, I'm fascinated by people's reactions to it. But I'm also very disappointed that people are so negative towards the finale. I just don't understand it.

But c'est la vie - let's see what the next batch of messages bring...










I LOVE that Bee Gees album. Let me just say that right off the bat. "First Of May" is one of the most beautiful songs ever written.

I will get into the subject of dreams during this post. But for now, I want to address what you are saying about Richard. Agent Cooper knows that he is Agent Cooper and not Richard. He announced himself as FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper when he got to the old Palmer residence and Alice Tremond opened the door. So he doesn't think that he is Richard. Diane, however, apparently thinks he IS Richard and that she is Linda. I don't think that he is now part Evil Cooper. BUT instead, whatever part of the original Agent Cooper invented Evil Cooper to begin with is now back inside Agent Cooper since none of that Laura Palmer/Black Lodge/Waiting Room stuff ever happened now.

I already mentioned in my previous post why I think Diane has her hands all over Cooper's face.












Wow! FINALLY! Cool! That now makes two of us.










Nice catch! More of our real world seeping into what just happened during Twin Peaks: The Return. How about the fact that here in America, all day long since Monday all that you hear mentioned every five minutes on the news is the words "dreamers program", over and over and over again. It's quite surreal. Still.










Nice! Do it, folks!










Well, Part 17 WAS exceptionally cool. But yeah, I thought Part 18 was quite an ending. I was on the edge of my seat during that car ride. I relaxed during the trip to the Valero station. And then it was back to the edge of my seat. It was a fun ride.










Well, it IS an actors credit. And Laura Dern didn't "act" as Naido or Linda in Part 18. We never saw either.

The owner of the Palmer house is a strange omission. I'm sure that it has something to do with the fact that it is actually the REAL current owner of the house. So the less publicity the better. The whole thing was just another brilliant brush with our real world during the end of Part 18.

The homeowner playing Alice Tremond IS credited on IMDB. Her name is Mary Reber.










I think Audrey's story DID come to a conclusion - at least for now - at the end of Part 16.

The rest may have never happened. Leo isn't dead anymore, either. Because now, Windom Earle never came to town. Shelly may still be married to Leo. Or dead. Becky doesn't exist. And Red - well, that one remains a mystery. He didn't exist in our minds before Twin Peaks: The Return. So there's a good chance that he doesn't exist at all anymore. OR, maybe he IS the Tremond kid all grown up. Maybe he was even in the house when Agent Cooper and Carrie Paige dropped by for a visit. Everything is different now. The past dictates the future.










Nope. We pretty clearly saw the Tulpa that Agent Cooper had Phillip Gerard create go through the red door and into Janey-E's and Sonny Jim's arms.










Very nice review. I agree with a LOT of what they said. There was definitely an ending and then a new beginning. The Infinity Loop continues. Hopefully. Though no one seems to have understood the sex magick ritual aspect of the whole thing and it's connection to the frogroach incident. This article simple says "they have intense sex" and then moves on. But overall, they seemed to understand the basics of it all and they appear to have loved the finale like I did. Thanks for posting this!










CARRIE PAIGE

I thought it was interesting that Laura Palmer's new name was Carrie Paige. Mainly because Ben Horne's new secretary was Beverly Paige and her bald husband - who looked a lot like the guy in the picture with Evil Cooper and the glass box in the New York City penthouse - was Tom Paige. Then I starting thinking that maybe Carrie "Paige" was the missing "page" related to the diary. I know, I know, but I was trying to have it all make some sense. This is the kind of stuff that I was busy thinking about during that initial car ride back to the town of Twin Peaks.

And then...



THE MISSING PAGE

After it was all over, I turned to my wife and said, "that's not the first time that another Tremond has opened somebody else's door". So I chased down the scene from the original series to show to all of you. And that's there all right. But so is another missing page of Laura's diary (I had completely forgotten about this) and even MORE talk about dreams. Check this out...












That is SO sad. But SO true. Love might not be enough. Just look around you.










That's too funny. I was JUST talking about that. I may have found a fourth page. I don't know. I know that I DID find another Tremond.










I hadn't remembered that. But there it is. So are there any more pages missing?










Hmmm...this IS a good one. That fourth page that Donna got from the new Mrs. Tremond during season two when she met her with Agent Cooper could possibly be the fourth missing page that Hawk was talking about. Couldn't it?










More like the last half of Part 18 means that we will have at least one more movie. Probably a much shorter one. I like the way that you're thinking, though.










I can't really see what video you were watching because the link is now dead.

JIAO DAI - This is just the newest name for Mother - a very ancient being known to the American Indians. Probably before it was even allowed to enter our world due to the Trinity test and possible sex magick ritual that brought it here. We know that it is inside of Sarah Palmer. And we now know that the golden Laura orb was released to our world to counter Jiao Dai - NOT to counter BOB as we all thought. As far as the sound that The Fireman told Cooper to remember - you can also hear the sound when Cooper loses Laura in the woods after going back to February 23, 1989 and saving her from Jacques and Leo's clutches. More Jiao Dai interference. I take it that you got this info from the video that disappeared - I actually went through the Pilot and found the matching footage with Sarah screaming Laura's name. It's when Sarah calls Laura down for breakfast near the very beginning of the Pilot.

THE CHICKEN AND THE EGG - The questions are plentiful at this point. Did Cooper and Diane cause the birth of Jiao Dai through their time travelling sex magick rituals? BOB seemed to be outside of time and space or, at least, outside of our reality - so did BOB really die on ALL of the timeline/realities/dimensions/dreams? Or is BOB still inside Leland in that original timeline that we started to see replay itself minus Laura's body wrapped in plastic? Did Leland still rape his daughter - with or without BOB inside of him - before that date? Did Leland still kill his daughter only at a later date? When Laura/Carrie screamed, did she wake up in her bed in 1989? Or when Laura/Carrie screamed, did she cause the facade to drop and force a confrontation with Jiao Dai posing as Sarah Palmer in the house they are standing in front of? Would Sarah Palmer even be called Sarah Palmer in this reality (everyone seems to have different names in this particular jump)? And on and on the questions go.










NAIDO AND DIANE - Very cool! I'd thought about the similarity but hadn't had a chance to actually compare them yet. I was pretty sure that they would match. I was busy comparing the radio station scene from Part 8. It looks like ALL THREE go together. When played simultaneously, the sex magick ritual seems to draw out Mother who then begins trying to get to Cooper in The Mauve World, but ends up getting to Sam and Tracey - who are also starting to have sex - in the New York City penthouse instead. This then poses a whole new set of questions.

SHERIFF TRUMAN'S HAT - How could you not see it? The hat jumped off of his head like a cartoon hat would. Classic!

THE WHITE HORSE - Remember, Laura received a horse as a birthday present when - I believe - she was twelve. Don't quote me on that. It's been a LONG time since I read The Secret Diary Of Laura Palmer. But she LOVED horses.

BUELLA AND JUDY'S PATRON - I knew not to be sipping coffee when I clicked on those pictures. Too funny!

DIANE'S MESSAGES - Yeah, that's what I was talking about last week. The dates are all wrong as well as the messages themselves. There was definitely more than one timeline/reality/dimension/dream being shown to us during Twin Peaks: The Return.







That's it for this time around. I'll be back with more thoughts and replies to your messages real soon. So keep them coming...

Sorry about the dead link for the video! Found another one...


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I love all the Jack Parsons references.

But in the end its all about the dream. The whole of season 3 appears to be nothing but a dream, with several dreamers within this dream(Laura, Audrey, and Cooper). But who is the primary dreamer of season 3 and where is that person in reality(or at least the reality of seasons 1&2)?

This video makes a very strong case, based primarily on the scene in the sheriff's office in episode 17, and the very last scene of season 3, which takes us back to the Black Lodge and Laura whispering in Agent Cooper's ear. The primary dreamer is Cooper and it would appear that he has never left the Black Lodge.

Another good theory to throw in the mix.

I can't believe that it's Thursday night/Friday morning already. The week is just flying by. It'll be Sunday night in no time and...oh yeah, there's no more Twin Peaks: The Return.

Anybody else feeling like that? It's going to be a LONG weekend. Anyways, here we go with some more messages...










I've thought about that myself. And I don't necessarily think that Jiao Dai or Mother or whatever you want to call it (I personally like Jiao Dai the best) IS evil. It has more of a chaotic neutral alignment (that was for the D&D person on the thread). Jiao Dai is what Jiao Dai is. Besides, evil is a man-made concept - like so many other things that I won't mention here in order to try and avoid arguments.

Agent Cooper asking what year it is just reinforces the fact that he is travelling an Infinity Loop battling said "evil" and doesn't even know his current whereabouts on the figure eight that he is travelling on. Not to mention that from the way that we were left with the ending credits over the scene of him being whispered to by Laura Palmer inside The Waiting Room, it's somewhat safe to assume that he may very well STILL be trapped there. Absolutely EVERYTHING that we have seen thus far could simply be a dream that Agent Cooper is having inside The Waiting Room/The Black Lodge. Maybe even the exact same dream that he was trying to tell FBI Deputy Director Gordon Cole about way back in the Philadelphia offices in 1988. And perhaps, battling Jiao Dai is actually nothing more than the FINAL test that has to be won before a person is actually allowed inside The White Lodge. And what we have been witnessing has been Agent Cooper's trials to get inside.

I could do this forever and keep going off into new thoughts and theories. I have so many. But I should get back to more messages for now.












Well, I will certainly always be there. That's for sure.










Oooh...that's mean. Somebody somewhere is going to see that and start frantically searching through all of the parts of Twin Peaks: The Return to try and find it.

Hehehe...

I'll give them a hint. It's in the same dream sequence where Big Ed jumped into the vortex, went back through time, and ended up like this...












I know. So many. And with no definitive answers. So we can talk about them forever without really knowing just what the artist meant.

<HEAVY SIGH>

I truly wish that there was more great art being produced on television and in the movies. We seemed to be there - in the movies as well as in music and literature - and then things started declining about 30 years ago or so.

But as far as what my Buddy, GG is saying - I agree that Sarah was once an innocent girl. No doubt. And that thing inside of her laid dormant for many years. One of the BIG questions is what exactly woke it up. I don't think Leland was infected by Sarah. BOB may have very well sought Leland out because of his proximity to Jiao Dai - the Mother - in order to protect Jiao Dai. I can see that. The golden Laura Palmer orb that we saw The Fireman and Senorita Dido place so gently within our world, was obviously sent to protect The White Lodge against The Black Lodge forces and to ultimately combat and destroy BOB and Jiao Dai. Though BOB ended up being destroyed by a green grocers glove worn by a guy with a really annoying Cockney accent. Go figure!



THE ROBERTSONS

The Robertson's lived in a white house near Leland's grandfather's summer home at Pearl Lakes. The Robertson that interacted with Leland as a child taunted Leland, flicking matches at him while saying, "you wanna play with fire, little boy"? Maybe he was the Woodsman who then went through the rest of HIS existence on the Infinity Loop trying to find a light because he wasted so many matches that time through the Infinity Loop. That would serve him right. Karma's a bitch - it'll always get you in the end if nothing else does.



IS JIAO DAI A GORGON?

I went on an odd path searching for clues and discovered something. It's a painting on a book cover from 1993. First off, the book is called Gossips, Gorgons & Crones: The Fates of the Earth by Jane Caputi. It's a collection of essays that explore the cultural connection between the invention of the atomic bomb and male violence against women. How's THAT for tying in to the new Twin Peak mythos? So the first question is - could Jiao Dai be some type of Gorgon? Or related to a Gorgon in some way? Like Humbaba was. Here's a basic article on Gorgons (there's a link to Humbaba in the article as well)...

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Now, the reason that I'm even asking this question is because of the actual cover of the book. Which I find fascinating when looked at through a set of Twin Peaks eyeglasses. See for yourselves...




THE BALANCE

Regardless of any of the above - or any other theories or anything else for that matter - there is a balance that MUST occur in this world. Evil is necessary to balance the good. And vice versa. This has nothing at all to do with Twin Peaks, but it does have to do with the subject matter...



At any rate, David Lynch is WELL aware of this need for balance. After all, David Lynch is heavily into Transcendental Meditation. I believe that the forces within Twin Peaks - just like the Infinity Loop symbol that Phillip Jeffries showed us - can easily be described as a Yin Yang kind of thing. Here's why...



YIN YANG

From the Oxford English Dictionary...

yin Also Yin, Yn. [shade, feminine; the moon.]

a. In Chinese philosophy, the feminine or negative principle (characterized by dark, wetness, cold, passivity, disintegration, etc.) of the two opposing cosmic forces into which creative energy divides and whose fusion in physical matter brings the phenomenal world into being. Also attrib. or as adj., and transf. Cf. yang.

b. Comb., as yin-yang, the combination or fusion of the two cosmic forces; freq. attrib., esp. as yin-yang symbol, a circle divided by an S-shaped line into a dark and a light segment, representing respectively yin and yang, each containing a 'seed' of the other.


yang Also Yang. [sun, positive, male genitals.]

a. In Chinese philosophy, the masculine or positive principle (characterized by light, warmth, dryness, activity, etc.) of the two opposing cosmic forces into which creative energy divides and whose fusion in physical matter brings the phenomenal world into being. Also attrib. or as adj. Cf. yin.

b. Comb.: yang-yin = yin-yang s.v. yin b.










The final scene of Fire Walk With Me with Laura Palmer in The Waiting Room with Agent Cooper says it all. When we left the story 25 years ago - after the release of the prequel - we were left with the understanding that no matter what ended up happening with Agent Cooper and Annie Blackburn (remember HER?), Laura Palmer was actually "happy" for once in her life and looked over by a guardian angel (during Andy's trip to The White Lodge in Twin Peaks: The Return, The Fireman showed him an image of Laura Palmer's prom picture flanked by TWO angels). When we leave Carrie Paige/Laura Palmer at the end of Twin Peaks: The Return she looks anything BUT happy. She appears to be waking up from a nightmare instead of a dream.

But WHO'S dream/nightmare? You seem to be suggesting that it's Jiao Dai's. But it could be Carrie/Laura's dream. Or Audrey Horne's. Or all of this could just be a continuation of Cooper's dream.










There is no such thing as a coincidence.

Kung Fu Panda said it best...

OOGWAY: There are no accidents.
SHIFU: [sighs] Yes, I know. You've already said that twice.
OOGWAY: That was no accident either.
SHIFU: Thrice.










Yeah, you're absolutely correct - it was never actually confirmed. Only that SOMETHING is in Sarah. For all we know, that thing crawled into somebody we haven't even met yet.

As for Leland - yeah, I believe that he probably allowed BOB inside. I wonder what Leland was like as a young man...












Yep. It's true. He was one of their founding members. It seems to all be a part of merging our reality with the Twin Peaks reality in a - surprise - very surreal way.










"Judyism". Too funny!

But "how"?



Sorry, I couldn't resist.










We'd seen some non-hidden labels for real beers and soft drinks, but I don't think we'd really seen any other businesses. And yes, I agree, there was a sudden jolt to a world much closer to ours. It began in Twin Peaks: The Return with Gordon Cole dreaming about Monica Bellucci and "The" Nine Inch Nails performing at The Roadhouse. Eddie Vedder performing too (though under his real name). The merging began.

Now, Laura Palmer isn't even the same person. The Palmer house has been taken over by Lodge denizens that do indeed look exactly like the owners of the house in the real world. Diane thinks she's Linda and wouldn't recognize Cooper even if she saw him. Things are definitely wonky all over.










Yep. And, like I mentioned previously, they can be linked up quite nicely.










Beautiful. Just beautiful.










I knew somebody was going to get fooled by that. Keybored - you're a "bad binocular"!










But you can still merge them together in the middle perfectly.










Well, yes and no. Becky may not even exist anymore. Now that Laura didn't die, Cooper never came to town. Everything is different. Was Leo still a vegetable? Or did that never happen now? Did Shelly still marry Bobby? And then have Becky? Or not? So it's not a matter of what happened to Becky, it's whether or not Becky even still exists.

It's an Infinity Loop, but it keeps on changing.








That's it for this batch. I'll be back with more tomorrow. But before I say goodnight and post this, I wanted to bring up a couple of things. Both in...



CARRIE PAIGE'S HOUSE

Here's a couple of things that I haven't seen anybody talking about yet.

First is the phone that starts ringing inside of the house while Agent Cooper is waiting for Carrie Paige to gather her things and grab a coat. As I mentioned before, I believe that this might represent an alarm clock in Laura's room in the other redone 1989 reality going off and bleeding through. Neither Cooper or Carrie seem to pay much attention to it.

And then there's the dead body on the couch in Carrie Paige's living room. Agent Cooper glances over at it, but doesn't pay a lot of attention to it and certainly doesn't mention it or do anything about it. It's right after seeing the dead body that Cooper notices the white horse figurine on the shelf. The dead body is VERY peculiar if you look at it closely since it looks like it might have had a BOB orb rip out of it's stomach. Take a look. It looks a LOT like Evil Cooper looked laying on the floor after the BOB orb came ripping out of him. And if that is true, is there another BOB in this new timeline/reality/dimension/dream?

lol came here because there is a connection to Twin Peaks and Fukushima, particularly the time 2:53. Wanted to see if anyone else had picked up on it. ah well..

wowbobwow - that was an amazing find with that book Beast333. Lots of extra reading to do when I have have a bit more spare time.


So, is it coincidence that the new Laura Palmer was found in Odessa which is more or less about 430 kilometres away from the Trinity Test Site in New Mexico?

More thoughts.

I wondered, if the Fireman knows it is an infinite loop, why does he bother trying to help or not just tell Cooper it is pointless?

When Diane sees herself at the hotel, is it possible she didn't actually recognise herself?

Still wondering if the real Sarah Palmer was the one in the house when the bottle sounds were heard during Hawk's visit.

Was it mentioned earlier that at the end of episode 7, in every shot change in the RR Diner, the people are different.

Does Jerry being completely naked mean something happened to him like with Naido?

Does Bad Cooper turn into the monkey when he is in the cage in the White Lodge? Something odd happens there before the cage starts moving.

Why does Diane kiss Cooper enthusiastically at first in he sherrif's office, but not so later? Doesn't make sense with the Bad Cooper rape.

Have found new meaning in the phrase “Let’s return to our starting position.”

Last Edited by keybored on 09/08/2017 02:47 PM

apparently 17 and 18 sync up almost perfectly, and if what i read here is true, watching them together answers a lot of questions...

[link to medium.com (secure)]

One of these days, I will get caught up on this thread. I've been working on some new songs so I've been on and off of here the last few days in between practices and writing and everything else that I have to deal with in real life. But it's been GREAT to wake up every day and see what you're all talking about. The conversation is getting lively.

It seems like people are settling down a bit after the finale. Repeated viewings are HIGHLY recommended to get the feel for it. It was definitely different. In such a cool way. Anyways, I'm going to go ahead and start going through some more of your messages and see what kind of new thoughts are being thunk out there...










Good question. In real life, I'm pretty sure that it was Mary Reber's real husband who wanted to take part in Twin Peaks: The Return, but not actually be seen on camera. But who is it SUPPOSE to be - THAT'S the question?

It could be the grandson - Pierre Tremond - all grown up. Who may or may not be Red. Or it could have been a Mr. Tremond - we've never seen one of those before. Or it could have been absolutely nobody and Mrs. Tremond was just faking another person being there.










I think Sarah is being held there in protective inter-dimensional custody by The Black Lodge who is using her to channel their Goddess - BABALON or Jiao Dai or Mother or just the worst fucking nightmare you can imagine - whatever you want to call her.












I doubt that it matters now since it's highly doubtful that Becky even exists and I'm pretty darn sure that we won't be going back there. The next Mark Frost book - The Final Dossier - is supposed to answer some questions about what happened to various people. So, if she does exist, maybe it will be covered in there. Maybe Audrey Horne will be, too. Who knows? And we don't have very long until we will find out - the book is slated to be released on Halloween - October 31, 2017.










Well put. But some of us can't help but try and figure it out as much as we possibly can. That's a big part of the enjoyment to me - the places where it takes my mind in trying to figure it all out. But you are right, it's not meant to ever truly be completely answered. I don't think we'll ever get all of the answers no matter how many more Twin Peaks things they put out. Like you said, part of the whole thing about Twin Peaks is that it's all about the mystery of the unknown. And the unknown is just that - unknown.










Yes! And it was a HELL of a journey!










That's an interesting thought. But Lynch was actually seen directing this scene from the outside. This was one of the few scenes that was witnessed being filmed by onlookers before Lynch decided to make all sets closed to the public. So it was somebody else inside of the house. Though, I suppose, we should add Lynch's name to the list of people that the mumbling voice inside the house could have been representing.










I'm pretty sure Cooper's been on the Infinity Loop for awhile now. And I also fully believe that the Phillip Jeffries Cháhú - the apparent keeper of the records of time and space - was sincerely happy to finally see the REAL Cooper and was trying to help him as well as the cause.

But that doesn't completely extinguish your idea. Perhaps one is run by The White Lodge, one by The Black Lodge, and the third - the Infinity Loop world that Cooper is stuck in - is still up for grabs.

OR...

This newest reality - the Odessa, Texas and Carrie Paige reality - is nothing but a Jiao Dai dream world meant to trap both Agent Cooper and Laura Palmer "between two worlds".










You are as busy as me coming up with new thoughts and theories, keybored. I'm glad. This is fun. Keep 'em comin'!

I'm pretty sure that BOB - Beast Of Babalon - was a limited edition one-of-a-kind item. And that he's gone forever. But that's not a given. So the question now is whether or not BOB got reset along with everything else and still lives - possibly still inside Leland - or whether BOB was destroyed for all time by Freddie Sykes and his green grocers gloved hand.

If BOB was destroyed, he's gone and it's on to Jiao Dai/BABALON and whatever tricks she has up her sleeve THIS time - starting with some fancy real estate deals that left the Palmer house in the hands of the Chalfonts/Tremonds.

If BOB wasn't destroyed, well...that would open up a whole new kettle of fish. In that case, it looks like he may have been released from the stomach of the dead body in Carrie Paige's house.



So, could BOB already be inside Carrie/Laura? Is THAT why Carrie/Laura screamed when she heard her mother, Sarah Palmer, scream her name from inside the house? Or was BOB sensing HIS Mother was inside the Palmer residence?










You know, I heard this theory online a couple of weeks ago, but didn't think it was worthy of bringing up here. But now, who knows? There was also a follow-up to that theory stating that - since Billy Zane is now bald - he could also have been the bald guy in the picture with Evil Cooper and the glass box in the New York City penthouse.

All I know is that Billy Zane and Clint Howard appear to be morphing into the same person...












Oh my! Something new. You mean when The Jumping Man is tearing down the stairs (which is something else that we need to discuss)? I'm going to check it out right now...

It sounds pretty much the same as it did in Part 15. You can hear some rewinding tape sounds and some voices mixed in. I know that we talked about the different faces within The Jumping Man after Part 15, but I'm not sure if we discussed the sounds. AND I've just discovered something else. So let's talk about all of this...



THE JUMPING MAN 101

The Jumping Man was NOT in the original Fire Walk With Me script. Lynch just through The Jumping Man into the Convenience Store scene at the time of filming and from what I heard nobody but Lynch knew exactly what it meant or represented at the time. We have only ever seen The Jumping Man on THREE occasions - during the Convenience Store scenes in Fire walk With Me, when Evil Cooper visited the Convenience Store in Part 15 of Twin Peaks: The Return, and when Agent Cooper visited the Convenience Store with Phillip Gerard in Part 17 of Twin Peaks: The Return.



THE JUMPING MAN CAMEO

I have found a FOURTH appearance that I wasn't aware of. In Part 8 of Twin Peaks: The Return. Check out who was inside that FIRST Convenience Store scene...



And if you look to the right of him, that sure looks like the ORIGINAL Woodsman - the one that I believe is actually Margaret Lanterman's - the Log Lady's - dead husband.



IS THE JUMPING MAN A HEYOKA?

In Native American culture, a Heyoka - or Sacred Clown as they are sometimes referred to as - has a VERY important role in preserving the cosmic order through conduct contrary to rules and logic. Heyokas are thought of as being backwards-forwards, upside-down, or otherwise contrary to nature. They constantly do things backwards or unconventionally – riding a horse backwards, wearing clothes inside-out, or speaking in a language backwards. The Heyoka never tell you something straight out - they make you use your own mental power to learn the meaning behind the words. They use a lack of logic to mock the conventions of our world, and challenge the minds of their disciples. A person who becomes a Heyoka is one who is inspired by a visit from a Wakinyan or Thunderbird, a powerful spiritual being who is always cloaked in storm clouds. The Thunderbird usually appears to them in a dream.

Here's the Wikipedia page so that you can do your own research - [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] - and here is a picture of Stanley 'Good Voice' Elk, a contemporary Heyoka who was photgraphed by National Geographic for their magazine...





THE JUMPING MAN'S SOUNDS

And that brings us back full circle to the subject of the sounds heard when The Jumping Man runs down the stairway in the Convenience Store house. Besides the rewinding tape sounds, a voice CAN be heard. Though it is up for debate what that voice is actually saying and what it all means...



The voice is processed with effects and very echoey. Some think that it is Lynch giving directions to a gaffer..."Back away a little bit, Michael. Yeah, back away. Back- back, keep goin' back. There, perfect. Perfect."

Others hear it as a seperate voice, perhaps somebody trapped inside of The Jumping Man..."My name is Michael. Why have you done this to me?"








THE REAL WAY TO WATCH THE FINALE

I was about to post and sign off when I had a MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH! Me and the wife just watched the finale in a completely different way. the way that I believe that we are suppose to watch it.

You know that I've been a big believer in the idea of link points - where you end up watching more than one screen at the same time. I believe that the whole Twin Peaks: The Return movie can be viewed this way. So it only makes sense that when you get to the very end of the movie - which I estimate will either last approximately 430 minutes or 4 1/2 hours - there will be more than one screen playing at a time. Then I remembered The Fireman's clues:

"430 - Richard and Linda - two birds with one stone".

And I suddenly realized that you need to watch the final two parts AT THE SAME TIME. So I went to the Showtime website and started up both Part 17 and Part 18 - each in half a screen on my computer - synced up the intros, and VOILA! - the TRUE finale was there. I don't want to spoil it for anybody so I'm not going to say a word about what happens. But the long car ride works well. All of the long silences compliment each other. Everything just works. And it has a GREAT ending.

Wow BOB Wow!








That's it for my Friday night/Saturday morning post. I'll be back sometime tomorrow with more. Until then, be careful who's door you go knocking on...

Came across this information today on another site which seems very relevant, considering it was also episode (chapter) 18 where the electrical lines & grid crossover appeared.

[link to www.insulators.info]

Open Wire Line

The right hand phantom group has the same number as Carrie's house (so who lives at 56)?

Also, this probably has bearing on the sockets in the Lodge rooms and whether/where you end up on the other side.

Anyone with VLC Player can set it to synch up two episodes and start them at the same time by going to

Media
Add Multiple Files
Select your first file
Show More Options
Make sure 'Play another media synchronously' is ticked
Browse 'extra media' for the second file

You can also change the timestamp if one episode needs to start earlier or later.

Some anagrams of Carrie Paige

A Gripe I Care
I Care Rip Age
I Rig Ace Rape
I Repair Cage
Epic Erg Aria

and as a phonetic - Carry Page

@Beast333 - interesting information about the heyoka.

Don't forget that Mrs Tremond's grandson also wore that type of mask a couple of times and also jumps around in one of the scenes.

speaking of National Geographic, they did a great spread on the Mt. St. Helens eruption. there was an old man living on the mountain named Harry Truman. he refused to leave and he died there. Lynch has mentioned that his design of the Elephant Man's head was inspired by photos of the St. Helens eruption.

I found another synch point between the scene from when Audrey and Charlie enter the roadhouse and she dances and the motel and sex scene with Dale and Diane.

Line up both moments it turns to black at the end of each mentioned scene and then jump back 7 minutes to line it up.

The lyrics match up to Diane seeing herself.

When the song finishes there is applause and this syncs with their kiss.

As Audrey gets more into the dance, Diane is showing more signs of distress.

The place is full of 'em...

[link to piperbasenji.blogspot.nl (secure)]