Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More - Bible Study

The infinite Almighty God exceeds the finite capabilities of your understanding.

Numbers 23:19

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

If you read the Bible and pay attention, both the Father AND His Son show us just how Mighty the Father is!

Even after ALL that Jesus had said and done during His ministry, He still states who He is and what He's done in accordance to the Father, with the prayers in John 17.

...

1. Jesus NEVER said "pray to me" NOR "worship me".
2. Jesus NEVER said "pray to / worship" a "trinity".
3. Jesus NEVER said "pray to the Holy Spirit" NOR "worship Holy Spirit".
4. Jesus NEVER said to pray to ANYONE other than the Father.
5. The Holy Spirit NEVER says "I am _______" or "you shall ________". Only Jesus and the Father say such.

.....

Jesus has a God - the Father. It's NOT Himself.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not;

for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

but go to my brethren, and say unto them,

I ascend unto my Father, and your Father;

and to my God, and your God.

...

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus

cried with a loud voice, saying,

Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say,

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

.....

John 17:3 And this is life eternal,

that they might know thee

the only true God,

and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

.....

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world,

that he gave his only begotten Son,

that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,

but have everlasting life.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 06/25/2022 01:07 AM

How many people don't realize that John 3:16 is Jesus SPEAKING?

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jesus states several time He only does the Father's Will...here's just one.

John 5:19 (KJV) Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Other translations of 5:19...

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Jesus Christ is my Heavenly Father, and my Lord, and my example, and my friend, and Savior, and Teacher, and God.

How is it, OP, you cannot accept what is right in front of you when you read the bible?



Philippians 2:6-11King James Version (KJV)

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.





John 10:30New International Version (NIV)

30 I and the Father are one.”





King James Bible
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 14:9





Every time you say Jesus is NOT God (the Father) you blaspheme God. You keep trying to reinforce that they are 2 persons and separate (polytheism).




Do you not think that every Christian at some point believed Jesus and the Father were separate beings????

Then, to believe that he IS the Father is actually a STEP UP.



To believe they are separate is where every Christian starts.


Then to see and believe and accept that he is the Father (which is a step one can only take by faith) is a SECONDARY step, not a primary step.




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All you have to do is look, then believe. Jesus obviously wants you to know he is God. Only God can forgive sins!



Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Mark 2:7




Why do we ask Jesus to forgive our sins if it's his Father who forgives our sins?

God is not a respecter of persons!

Only God is the lawgiver, when we sin we break HIS law and since he is judge we must as his forgiveness if we are repentant and want it. Ask the Lawgiver for forgiveness, not the son of the Lawgiver, unless they are the same person.



Jesus went in, and Jesus came out. The Father went in, and the Father came out.




Oh, and what's the NAME, the proper name, the personal name of the Holy Spirit in which we are to be baptized? Kind of unfulfilling to be baptized in someone's name that you don't even know!






This will help you understand maybe, maybe not....

Thread: A word from the Lord Almighty.

Glory be to God Almighty, our Father in the Heavens and the Earth, the Spirit in whom we move and have our being (the Father) and who being is within all (the Son).

A name is raiment for the flesh as the flesh is raiment for the spirit and the spirit raiment for that which is BEFORE the Word, from which the Word comes, and to which the word goes.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was God.

Read John chapter one right before reading this.... that is my challenge. And then try to deny he is God in the flesh.

Let me correct myself. The first thing God ever begot was Jesus.

Jesus then created all other things.

Begot is different than create, although Jesus is a creation.


Jesus is a creation who was begotten.


If there is nothing and then out of nowhere and nothing comes clay, that clay was begotten.

If there is no baby breathing outside of the womb and then out from the womb the baby comes, that baby was begotten.


If you take that clay and mold it into the likeness of a human, you CREATED a thing.

If you were to be ABLE to sculpt and mold and stitch and piece together a baby, then you CREATED a baby.

People do not create babies, GOD does.


Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
Jeremiah 1:5


NOBODY created Jesus Christ, but the Father himself, the Spirit, made manifest the first creation out of nothing nowhere, the first and ONLY begotten "Son of God". You could call him the only begotten creation of God. Because then with Jesus, and AS Jesus, the Father spoke all OTHER THINGS into existence. He therefore created all other creations with his VOICE whereas AS THE HOLY SPIRIT God had NO VOICE with which to CREATE Jesus so he had to BEGET Jesus.

He simply *BECAME* by the power of God, and he himself also is God.


God was basically saying, "I WILL BE THAT AMONGST....(Let there be light, etc.) ALL THIS"

The pre-incarnate Christ,
pre-incarnate Son of God,
pre-incarnate Jesus:

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The verse below solved the question as far as I'm concerned.

1Co:15:27:
For he hath put all things under his feet.
But when he saith all things are put under him,
it is manifest that he is excepted,
which did put all things under him.

Last Edited by Wayfaring Stranger on 08/14/2017 11:19 AM

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Timothy 3:16











There are literally a LOT more where that came from....


It just states it outright.....

Thomas said to him, "MY LORD AND MY GOD!"

Jesus said, "I'm not your God"...

Thomas said to him, "I know, it's just an expression; sometimes I talk about the Lord God in vain. It'll catch on much later, you'll see."

?????????????????


Nah.

The Day when the Father,Christ,and
The Holy Spirit combine to become a man, AMEN!

You folks need to GRASP that the God of Israel was ENKI

Colossians 2:9King James Version (KJV)

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.





IN JESUS............



lives, remains, dwells, IS.........



the FULLNESS of God.


And I only get a tiny fraction of the Holy Spirit! :(


But at least it is sufficient to save my soul! :)


God is FULLY INSIDE JESUS.



MAYBE that's why he said, no one can come to the Father except THROUGH ME? Why "through me"? Because God is LITERALLY IN HIM.

Isaiah 9:6King James Version (KJV)

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.





Hmmm, maybe Isaiah was a LIAR saying that GOD THE FATHER was going to be BORN A MAN?







I don't think so!!!!

Colossians 1:15-17King James Version (KJV)

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.



WHATEVER COULD THIS POSSIBLY MEAN???!?!


OPE DOPE, I'll just ignore THAT ONE! OPE DOPE, THAT SOUNDS LIKE JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE THE SAME OPE DOPE. GET IT AWAY, I DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE THAT!


Why?

Maybe OP I care about you so I'm spending my time giving you scripture that YOU SHOULD HAVE READ that would help you accept the truth of who Jesus really is so you'll finally have peace, and stop blaspheming my God, and help save yourself knowing who it is you speak to.

Philippians 2:5-8King James Version (KJV)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.



I know I already posted this but I want to expand a little on it.

Let's break it down a little:


Christ Jesus, the form of God, and equal to God, humbled himself, chose to be a servant among men, and died as an atoning sacrifice for the sins of all mankind.

WILL YOU KEEP IGNORING THE FACTS OF SCRIPTURE TO SAY....


MY LOGIC BRAIN TELLS ME JESUS IS A WEIRDO FOR TALKING TO HIMSELF.......

SO HE IS NOT WEIRDO, HE NOT TALK TO HIMSELF, HE TALK TO SOMEONE ELSE.




Even the Father of creation was comforted by Moses and Elijah, and in the garden also of angels. HE WAS A MAN.

EVEN JESUS KNEW he was a vessel of God, and THE VESSEL OF God.

Lucifer couldn't comprehend that he is a created thing and thought he could become the Creator. WHAT IDIOCY! Jesus knows he is a creation created by himself, the Holy Spirit, that lives in him.


He even needed to spend time away from people like we all do from time to time.



So the Almighty God was speaking to himself... Does that make him a lunatic?




But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14







1 Corinthians 1:18-31King James Version (KJV)

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the J-ws require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the J-ws a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both J-ws and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Are those Jesus' OWN WORDS?

NOPE!



So Jesus was lying in ALL of these verses??????????

John 4:34 (KJV) Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

John 5:30 (KJV) I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 6:38 (KJV) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 6:40 (KJV) For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 8:28 (KJV) Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

John 8:42 (KJV) Jesus said unto them,If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 8:49 (KJV) Jesus answered,I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

John 10:15 (KJV) As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

John 12:49 (KJV) For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 14:28 (KJV) Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 14:31 (KJV) But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

John 16:28 (KJV) I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Matthew 16:16-17 (KJV) 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him,Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 26:39 (KJV) And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying,O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Scriptural FACTS!

***Jesus mentions the Father / "He who sent me" over 180 times in the 4 Gospels.

***Jesus goes off to pray to the Father by Himself. ALL of John 17 is Jesus praying to / talking to the Father.

***Jesus starts the Lord's Prayer with "Our Father", which is inclusive of Jesus.

***Jesus does NOT KNOW when He is going to return.

***Jesus says to "ask in My name" instead of "pray to me" or "ask me".

***After Jesus' baptism (Matthew 3:17 & Mark 1:11), the Father's voice is heard. "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

***Peter et al...told at the transfiguration (by God The Father)...(Matthew 17 & Luke 9).. "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

***Jesus says (in Mark 10 & Luke 18)...And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

***Mark 16:19 (KJV) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

***Just before Jesus raises Lazarus, He says in John 11:41 Then they took away the stone [from the place] where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up [his] eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.

Correct AC. The mystery of the Messiah has eluded the people.

OP asks: Is this God praying to & talking to Himself?
Or is it the Son of God praying to & talking to OUR Father!

Once you understand the mystery of the veil, then your eyes will open to the truth. OP must understand The Sublime Unity. Start here, and look for The Infinite Reach first.

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nem8

You luciferians are totally off ... the latine word Spirit thranslates the breath, nothing to do with luminous anything.

You're quite the teacher here, makes one just want to come & share from your cup.

Let it be thoroughly understood from the beginning that one man cannot convince another of either right or wrong; but if a man be convinced, it is by his own investigation of that which is placed before him; therefore let such one, if so disposed, read over the bases of this book, and bearing them in mind, discard the remainder, and commence the study of the Scriptures from the first chapter of Genesis, continuing the same without a break unto the Omega of the book of Revelation. Let each man convince himself, for it is his own interest that is at stake.

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