Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More - Bible Study

Sorry, somehow I read what you posted to mean that Jesus or disciples didn't use those words. And to be careful of those who use that term.

Oh, okay. I understand. It was worded in such a way that it may have been unclear. I can see where you came to the conclusion that you did. Really.

Thanks.

I love the phrase "it is written", so it caught my attention I would say. My apologies if I offended the way I replied.

Psalms 40
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Did not even cross my mind to be offended, by you, in particular. Have read some of your posts and you are the last person I would think would approach another person in any kind of offensive manner. :)

And that is where you are wrong again.

Satan isn't quoting God. He's quoting the writer of Psalm 91.

In Matthew 4:6, Satan says "it is written"....he does NOT say "God SAID".

Humongous difference.



And what did Paul say?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:




Both of you deny what Jesus actually told us.

Scriptural Facts about who Jesus is.

***Jesus mentions "God" / "the Father" / "He who sent me" over 230 times in the 4 Gospels.
***Jesus goes off to pray to the Father by Himself. ALL of John 17 is Jesus praying to / talking to the Father.
***Jesus starts the Lord's Prayer with "Our Father", which is inclusive of Jesus.
***Jesus does NOT KNOW when He is going to return.
***Jesus NEVER says to "pray to me" or "ask me". Instead, Jesus says to "ask in My name".
***After Jesus' baptism (Matthew 3:17 & Mark 1:11), and the Father's voice is heard.
***Peter et al...are told at the transfiguration (by God The Father)...(Matthew 17 & Luke 9).. "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."
***Jesus says (in Mark 10 & Luke 18)...And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."
***Mark 16:19 (KJV) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
***In Matthew 28 Jesus said He was GIVEN power and authority over heaven and earth.
***Jesus states SEVERAL times that He does ONLY the Will of the Father.
***Jesus call Himself "son of man". Would God the Father really do that? I think not.
***Just before Jesus raises Lazarus, He says in John 11:41 Then they took away the stone [from the place] where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up [his] eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.

God the Father has no reason to "pray to Himself" in John 17. IF Jesus WAS the Father, EVERYTHING stated above wouldn't even be in scripture / recorded.

Jesus is the Divine, only-begotten Son of the Living God, GIVEN authority over Heaven and Earth BY the Father

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 12/13/2018 12:15 PM

Thanks brother, same to you.

Claiming that Jesus is The Father is a misrepresentation of ALL that Jesus says.

How many times does Jesus have to say that He "only does the Will of the Father" and that He "was sent" before you see who He really is?

God the Father doesn't pray to Himself. In YOUR Theory of Jesus = the Father, John 17 wouldn't exist.

So not only do you believe that Jesus is not God in the flesh, you also believe that God is only speaking in the Bible when the Bible says "God said" or "quotes" God.

I have to inform you that every single solitary Word in the Bible IS "God said."

Not one word in the Bible was written from the mind of a man. Not one. God is speaking in the entirety of the Word and speaking by use of the hand of men to write EXACTLY what "God said" using the hand of human men.

Wow. I had no idea that you did not understand that the Bible IS, God said. ALL of it.

Just wow. Friend, it goes deeper than I had known.

It isn’t overly difficult, if you do a bit of reading and studying, to understand that Jesus in his incarnation, while being fully God was, at that tome, fully man. Everything he did then, he did by the power of the Holy Spirit. He came to be the way and show the way.

If Jesus is not God, he couldn’t have been the sinless atonement for your sin. It really is that simple. God humbled himself and be sent a man, walked in full sinless obedience to the father to show how we should walk in obedience to him, when we have repented of our sin and put our faith in him.

In Exodus 3:5, Moses is told to remove his sandals, as he is standing on "holy ground".

Joshua (5:15) was told the same thing by the commander of the Lord's army, just before God spoke to him in Ch 6.

Jesus never said any such thing, not even after He was resurrected.

Jesus washed the apostle's feet.

Would God, the Father, really do that?

God the Father humbles Himself for NO ONE and nothing.

God the Father prays to NO ONE.

God, whose physical and human expression is Jesus, is omnipresent and can be EVERYWHERE all at the same time. He is in ALL locations and everywhere, simultaneously. Even right now as we speak.

I know it's a lot to wrap the mind around because it's another higher existence where God resides. His ways are higher than our ways. Nobody here will claim to be able to explain the concept of omnipresence in human terms to you, because no one can. You only need to understand that it means God is everywhere at all times. How? You got me on that one. I cannot tell you how God does it, but He does.

That is why God is God. Whilst you are busy copying and pasting, there are others marveling at the all powerful, all knowing and all present Jesus Christ. They are developing a relationship with Him.

If you deny the deity of Christ (meaning that Jesus is God) you do so at your own peril. You obviously have a heart for God and it pains me to see the deception you are suffering.

Really?

You can prove that with scripture?

You can't. It's a faulty understanding of the Bible.

God the Father had the Holy Spirit inspire the author's of the various books. This explains why there are various differences in the 4 Gospels.

The Holy Spirit gave the authors the EXACT WORDS when the "thus saith the Lord" and for the quotes of Jesus.

He tells the disciples this:

John 13:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Have you ever wondered why the "Gospel of Thomas" wasn't included in the Bible? It differs significantly from what the 4 Gospels state of Jesus' own words. And it obvious that the writer (who quite possible wasn't even Thomas) wasn't guided by the Holy Spirit.

That is but one of the things that happens when someone tries to put another person's words into their own.

Or when they read someone elses "interpretation" and decides it's the correct one, simply because it's been put / tailored to their OWN comprehension.

This is why Jesus said many times "for those who have eyes, let them see. For those who have ears let them hear."

See, that's what you are missing. God did humble Himself. And the day when/if you come to that understanding is that same day that you will be humbled to the point of a spiritual brokenness that is impossible to be expressed in words.

To realize ^^ that ^^ is to realize the depths of the love that is Christ. I don't understand that kind of love, I can only accept it in humility and thanksgiving. It makes me want to love Him back, clumsy as I am. And, as little as I understand the personification of Love itself in Christ Jesus.

He loved us first.

Jesus does not "love." (a verb) Jesus IS love. (noun)

Wrap your mind around that. ^^^^

It will take a lifetime and you will never understand it.

Only in Heaven will you know the true depths of what love looks like when you see love's face standing before you in the face of Jesus.

The deity of Christ is that He is the only-begotten SON of God.

I suffer no deception.

There's no question that there is NOTHING that God CANNOT do.

The point of the matter is..."would God do (this)"?

You don't understand nor comprehend the 2 distinct personalities of God and His Son Jesus.

God the Father WOULD NOT humble Himself for ANY reason or person.

Case in point. Here's what Jesus states...

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Your belief that Jesus is the Father would dictate that the verse should be something like this...

"For I so loved the world, that I left heaven, impregnated Mary with my spirit, grew up and declared the gospel. I then allowed myself to be crucified, then resurrected myself, so that you would believe that I am God"

God would NEVER leave heaven to become a mortal man.
God would NEVER allow Himself to be humiliated in any way like Jesus was.

Your belief would also have the prophecy of the Scroll with Seven Seals in Revelation 5 be like this....

God is sitting on His Throne in Heaven, holding the scroll with seven seals. While holding the scroll, He transforms Himself into the Lamb, who then takes the scroll from Himself"

CHAPTER 5
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 06/24/2018 12:52 PM

Genesis 1:26 "let US make man in OUR image and likeness", also John 1 show Jesus/Logos/The Word is God (in human form subservient). God is a family and son "many sons and daughters (Romans 8). Use some discernment.

God said that when one member of your body sin's, chop it off and throw it away so that only that part is cast into hell, and not your entire body.


So... basically God's voice, his words, had been accused of doing evoL by Satan.

So God removed his voice from himself, it became its own entity, and it went to trial in 'Creation'.

We know this because when Jesus prayed to God before, he always called God 'Father'... up until the point where his request that 'if there was any other way to do this, please do it that way, rather than kill him' where when he was on the cross, in his prayer he said:

....."My *God*, my *God*, why has thou forsaken me"

This is the indication that at that point, Jesus had been completely separated from God to be judged, and Satan was going to take his life from him (Satan is the Angel of Death), but then God foud no evoL in his own words (his voice/Jesus) so he was *taken back* from Death and re-joined God.


My understanding of this is that Satan had accused God of speaking against him, so God, the ultimate judge of Love vs Anti-Love (evoL), was forced by Law, to have the accused element judged. That process allowed Satan to take his Voice from him and take its life from it, so that God couldn't speak (or create) anymore.

The cause of this is that I believe that God wanted to move to a more efficient mode of 'Self Regulation' which is the 'System of Love' and eliminate Death (Satan). Since Satan (Death) was designed from the beginning to be a protector of God, to go before God to make sure the way was safe (morning star comes first before the sun, (aka. the light barer)) and to subdue and separate from God any entity that God determined as performing Anti-Love (evoL/to go against God) and encapsulate it forever in darkness; Satan (Death) who has no life of his own to he un-killable, went against his own protocol to save itself by Accusing God of performing Anti-Love against Satan by *Speaking Against Him*.

Remember when God "Speaks"... his "Words" can both create and destroy entire universes... so Satan, as the ultimate strong man/designed to win entity, strategized to abandon his designed protocol and moved to protect himself... which if you think about it, is almost unfathomable.

An entity that was designed and built to NEVER LOSE as the ultimate protector of God, that was designed to Never Die and always win no matter what, in order to protect God at all costs, was about to be... basically... done away with and his purpose replaced by a new system of logic called Love.

Love, which allows forgiveness and flexibility and is controlled by the 'victim' who can judge evoL for themselves; Instead of LAW, which must be defined to a ultimately high level of granularity, where everything must be defined perfectly and be judged by God himself (Love) (a huge full time job).


This is just my observed perspective as a witness inside creation.




.

Nope.

You misunderstand the true nature / essence of the Father.

God the Father humbles Himself to NO ONE.

That is His omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence in FULL display.

Your god is untouchable, distant. Detached.

A cosmic 'spirit in the sky' who only spoke sometimes in the Bible.

Jesus, the true God, is touchable, present, attached to His body.

He spoke every Word directly to us in the Bible.

Your god is not God. Do you know who is the imitation and false god? The one who pretends to be god? The one who said "I will be LIKE the Most high?"

You will react poorly to that, but it has to be said.

the NT says that John was illiterate. "John" is written in perfect Greek.

The text itself is anonymous, the author never claims to be John.

No one at all even claims that John is the author until late 2nd century, Irenaeus of Lyons is the first to do so.

Out of the four gospels, "John" is the ONLY gospel whos author believes that Jesus is god, it is the only author where Jesus himself claims to be god and it is the only gospel in which we find sayings of Jesus where he tells us he is god, none of these things can be found in any of the three earlier gospels.

Here is some background on that statement
[link to thearclightproject.com]

Pray for this person. ^^^ This person needs prayer.

There is no reaching you at this present time. I did not expect to reach you. I planted a seed. That seed being of a true nature is out of my hands now. I realize that you are so into a deception that I never thought that I could "save" you.

I am experienced enough to understand that this level of deception and demonic influence is only removed by the Holy Spirit of God Himself. That does not mean that we are not to plant the seed with you and then turn it over to God.

LS, you've no idea how sincere I am. You are that deep into it.

That said, I am going to pray for you specifically. I see a hunger in you and a desire in you that if channeled correctly would be to God's true glory. Right now you are doing damage. Mostly to yourself.

You will not accept any of that. That is not the point though.

I wish I knew your name.

But, God knows it and He will know who I am talking about.

Where does Jesus say that He is the Father?
In John 17 Jesus prays to and talks TO the Father.

Here...in John 20.

Is Jesus going to ascend to Himself?

John 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

....21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Blasphemy.

And you deny what scripture states.

God the Father told Moses that NO MAN could see Him without immediately perishing.

Did God lie to Moses? Did Moses misinterpret what God said?

Nope.

THAT is WHY God sent His only-begotten SON....Jesus!

Even Jesus stated that "no man has seen the Father".

While you are praying, pray for yourselves, that you should receive the Spirit of Truth, who would teach you all things.

Just as Jesus SAID.

I'll see you around LS.

This is the right time for me to finish speaking.

He loved God more than he loved himself.
And he TRUSTED.

how did that work out?

do you know what these words mean?

Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani.

It means , My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

His faith was being tested.

He WAS Sin Judged at that very moment.

He was the Sacrificial Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world

at that very moment.