Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe?

Users Online Now: 1,281 (Who's On?)	Visitors Today: 261,557
Pageviews Today: 349,317	Threads Today: 102	Posts Today: 1,562
02:58 AM

Page 1 2 Bottom Search Replies Previous Page Next Page
Search Terms: Highlight Matches
Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? These two interpretations of reality seems to be trivial, but form part of a major division between "clasic" physicists and "quantum" physicists that were expressed at it highest point in 1927, at the Solvay Conference "Photons and Electrons" in Copenhague. At that Conference, more than 30 top physicists (half of them Nobel Prize winners) discussed about HOW to interpretate physical reality and based on what. The subject of this thread is a part of a discussion between Heisenberg (one of the founders of Quantum Mechanics) and Eistein (more a cosmologist than any other thing). The difference is deep, and has divided modern physics almost since then. One example: Quantum Computers and entanglement. There are many other uses, even for the daily life of us, at any aspect. We could rephrase that in this way, wich is more evident, regarding news(at least for me): "If we never know about something that happened, did it happen?

Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Stuff! Sorry for the typo.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? I've always found the tree falls in the wood and you don't hear it thing a canard. What happens if a tree falls in the wood, you are under it, don't hear it, but yet it falls on your head, do you exist?
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? I've always found the tree falls in the wood and you don't hear it thing a canard. What happens if a tree falls in the wood, you are under it, don't hear it, but yet it falls on your head, do you exist? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Well, it depends if you existed before the tree felt into your head, isn't it?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? I've always found the tree falls in the wood and you don't hear it thing a canard. What happens if a tree falls in the wood, you are under it, don't hear it, but yet it falls on your head, do you exist? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 I mean technically it is the same scenario, right? Nobody is there to witness the tree fall. I could be wrong.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? I've always found the tree falls in the wood and you don't hear it thing a canard. What happens if a tree falls in the wood, you are under it, don't hear it, but yet it falls on your head, do you exist? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Well, it depends if you existed before the tree felt into your head, isn't it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48312932 But wouldn't somebody have some foreknowledge of the existence of said person?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Just saying... we can take this a step further. The tree falls on this fellow and he doesn't make a sound, does he exist? Wouldn't there be search parties and stuff for our missing hero?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 71644467 United States 10/18/2017 10:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? It is both because it is subjective to personal interpretation.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? It is both because it is subjective to personal interpretation. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 Okay, what if the tree made no sound and the man who had the tree fall on him made no sound, but 100 years later a random other person walked through the woods and found a tree on top of skeleton, would he not reasonably conclude that a tree fell on somebody and crushed them and that happened in the past even though nobody was around to witness it?
Beneneth User ID: 75698723 United Kingdom 10/18/2017 10:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Did you bring yourself into reality by observing yourself asking the question? Jesus is Lord
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? I've always found the tree falls in the wood and you don't hear it thing a canard. What happens if a tree falls in the wood, you are under it, don't hear it, but yet it falls on your head, do you exist? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Well, it depends if you existed before the tree felt into your head, isn't it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48312932 But wouldn't somebody have some foreknowledge of the existence of said person? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Yes, someone could knew that we were out there. But this interpretation pretends to include only you and a given "reality". Modifying the experience: You are watching the wood from the road, and a tree fell. Then you keep going without knowing it, and never return there. Did the tree fell? It's only you, and your relative reality, or the absolute reality (that the tree fell).
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Did you bring yourself into reality by observing yourself asking the question? Quoting: Beneneth Wut?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? I've always found the tree falls in the wood and you don't hear it thing a canard. What happens if a tree falls in the wood, you are under it, don't hear it, but yet it falls on your head, do you exist? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Well, it depends if you existed before the tree felt into your head, isn't it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48312932 But wouldn't somebody have some foreknowledge of the existence of said person? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Yes, someone could knew that we were out there. But this interpretation pretends to include only you and a given "reality". Modifying the experience: You are watching the wood from the road, and a tree fell. Then you keep going without knowing it, and never return there. Did the tree fell? It's only you, and your relative reality, or the absolute reality (that the tree fell). Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48312932 Why would you pretend a scenario that can't exist?
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Did you bring yourself into reality by observing yourself asking the question? Quoting: Beneneth Actually, I'm not so aware to give you a proper answer. I wrote the question, but I don't know if the question was already there (in my head) or it become true because I wrote it and then read what I posted.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75718901 Australia 10/18/2017 10:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Its all subjective realities You try to pretend otherwise That is obvious
rockstar101 User ID: 74222431 United States 10/18/2017 10:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? It is subjective and so either way is correct. When the one great scorer comes to write against your name, he writes not that you won or lost but how you played the game. The stance and stare of a wolf you find yourself alone with will tell you that he is prepared to treat you as you would treat him. Whether that comforts or frightens you, he has told you all you need know about both.

Anonymous Coward User ID: 71644467 United States 10/18/2017 10:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? It is both because it is subjective to personal interpretation. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 Okay, what if the tree made no sound and the man who had the tree fall on him made no sound, but 100 years later a random other person walked through the woods and found a tree on top of skeleton, would he not reasonably conclude that a tree fell on somebody and crushed them and that happened in the past even though nobody was around to witness it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Naturally.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Its all subjective realities You try to pretend otherwise That is obvious Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75718901 Do you look both ways when you cross the road?
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Why would you pretend a scenario that can't exist? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Actually, such scenario exist IF I go back to the place, walk into the wood and find the tree. Then I realize what happened. Before of that, I wasn't aware so, for me, it didn't happen.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Why would you pretend a scenario that can't exist? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Actually, such scenario exist IF I go back to the place, walk into the wood and find the tree. Then I realize what happened. Before of that, I wasn't aware so, for me, it didn't happen. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48312932 That's just the same way of saying nothing happened before you were born. Doesn't make sense.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Let's put this another way, did your parents fuck?

Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? It is both because it is subjective to personal interpretation. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 Okay, what if the tree made no sound and the man who had the tree fall on him made no sound, but 100 years later a random other person walked through the woods and found a tree on top of skeleton, would he not reasonably conclude that a tree fell on somebody and crushed them and that happened in the past even though nobody was around to witness it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Naturally. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 But such person is not perceiving reality. This man is observing "residuals" of something that happened long time ago. He even can't tell when did it happen. Even when is not my favourite physicist, Einstein said by the time quantum physics was emerging and the "Schrodinger Cat" paradox was being discussed: If you watch the Moon and turn your back, is it still there?
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Let's put this another way, did your parents fuck? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 At least my mom did, so here I am.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75065509 United States 10/18/2017 10:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? It is both because it is subjective to personal interpretation. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 Okay, what if the tree made no sound and the man who had the tree fall on him made no sound, but 100 years later a random other person walked through the woods and found a tree on top of skeleton, would he not reasonably conclude that a tree fell on somebody and crushed them and that happened in the past even though nobody was around to witness it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Naturally. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 But such person is not perceiving reality. This man is observing "residuals" of something that happened long time ago. He even can't tell when did it happen. Even when is not my favourite physicist, Einstein said by the time quantum physics was emerging and the "Schrodinger Cat" paradox was being discussed: If you watch the Moon and turn your back, is it still there? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48312932 Wouldn't you have to have some sort of material construct to turn your back?
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Its all subjective realities You try to pretend otherwise That is obvious Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75718901 Do you look both ways when you cross the road? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 I do, but always forget that we live in a 3D world. I never look up!
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 10:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? We never will be able to observe an electron. Do they exist?

Anonymous Coward User ID: 75718901 Australia 10/18/2017 10:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Its all subjective realities You try to pretend otherwise That is obvious Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75718901 Do you look both ways when you cross the road? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 I got runaway once By someone reversing on a one way street So I look in every direction possible now Before crossing Are you implying This didnt happen Unil now that you are aware of it?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 71644467 United States 10/18/2017 10:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? It is both because it is subjective to personal interpretation. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 Okay, what if the tree made no sound and the man who had the tree fall on him made no sound, but 100 years later a random other person walked through the woods and found a tree on top of skeleton, would he not reasonably conclude that a tree fell on somebody and crushed them and that happened in the past even though nobody was around to witness it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Naturally. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 But such person is not perceiving reality. This man is observing "residuals" of something that happened long time ago. He even can't tell when did it happen. Even when is not my favourite physicist, Einstein said by the time quantum physics was emerging and the "Schrodinger Cat" paradox was being discussed: If you watch the Moon and turn your back, is it still there? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48312932 But it is his reality at that point and he can perceive it anyway he chooses.
The Rickest Rick Sanchez User ID: 73168454 United States 10/18/2017 11:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? The universe is basically an animal. It grazes on the ordinary. It creates infinite idiots just to eat them. The Rickest Rick Sanchez comments are meant for entertainment purposes only and should not be construed to reflect the feelings and opinions, implied or expressed, of the author.
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 11:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? ... Okay, what if the tree made no sound and the man who had the tree fall on him made no sound, but 100 years later a random other person walked through the woods and found a tree on top of skeleton, would he not reasonably conclude that a tree fell on somebody and crushed them and that happened in the past even though nobody was around to witness it? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75065509 Naturally. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 But such person is not perceiving reality. This man is observing "residuals" of something that happened long time ago. He even can't tell when did it happen. Even when is not my favourite physicist, Einstein said by the time quantum physics was emerging and the "Schrodinger Cat" paradox was being discussed: If you watch the Moon and turn your back, is it still there? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 48312932 But it is his reality at that point and he can perceive it anyway he chooses. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71644467 Don't forget that the main issue here is Modern Physics, and the problems that cosmological and atomic theories are bringing to us, laymen, every year. - Did you observe a gravitational wave? And did they? - Did you ever observed a photon? Does it exists? - Did you ever observed a Black Hole out there, at the space? Do they exists? - Did you ever observed a muon or a quark, or even an atom? This is the crossroad at current science, at least for disidents (non-believers).
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 48312932 Argentina 10/18/2017 11:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation	Re: Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe? Excerpt from: Einstein admits his 1905 special relativity theory is nonsense Roger J Anderton "The dream of physicists, to be able to predict any future event in the universe based on its present state, meets its certain death. If we regard reality as that which can be observed by all, we have to find that there is no objective movement of an electron around the nucleus. This viewpoint would imply that reality is created by the observer; in other words: if we take Heisenberg literally, the moon is not there when nobody is looking at it. However, we must consider the possibility that there is a subatomic reality independent of observation and that the electron may have an actual trajectory which cannot be measured. The moon may be there after all. This conflict is the philosophical essence of the Uncertainty Principle.”
Page 1 2 Top Previous Page Next Page

Related Threads

Join Now, Free! (& No Ads!) Forgot Your Password?
Email	Password	Remember

1	Accused Leaker Reality Winner Stuffed NSA Report in Her Pantyhose	09/28/17
2	A JONES Physically Stops Vehicle After Witnessing Migrant Children Being Stuffed in the Luggage Compartment	04/07/21
3	Pizza style.. deep dish? Hand tossed ? Thin crust? Stuffed crust?	11/18/20

Rate this Thread

Deep stuf (Physics): Is reality independent of what we can observe, or is what we observe?