those claiming to see the Messiah after Pentecost

If a 144,000 Apostles will see him before Rev 22:8,i'm sure others have seen him before then.

Well, I can't say who sees who in heaven, but I can quote the gospel of Matthew 24:26-28, "If therefore they will say to you, 'Behold, he is in the desert', you should not go out, or 'Behold, he is in an inner room', do not believe it. For just as lightning goes out from the east and appears unto the west, so will the coming of The Son of Man be. Wherever the body will be, there will the eagles be gathered."

Another key point: In John 20:22-24 (when certain apostles receive Holy Spirit), the apostle Thomas was not present to receive the Holy Spirit, which explains why the John 14:15-18 and John 15:26 prophecies (where Messiah says to all apostles except Judas Iscariot that they would eventually receive Spirit) wasn’t fulfilled until Pentecost (when Thomas would have finally received the Holy Spirit).

Last Edited by Copperegla on 11/05/2019 11:54 AM

Paul claims he saw the Messiah after Pentecost, so that presents a potential conflict with the gospel of John.

Indeed, why did the Messiah’s chosen apostles (from his chosen 12) have so many issues/disputes with Paul (Shaul), and why…

(1) Why was Shaul rejected by the assembly at Ephesus? Acts 19:8-9, 23. Shaul doesn’t say the assembly turned away from Yahshua; rather Shaul says the assembly turned away from ‘me’ (Shaul). In Revelation 2:2, the Church of Ephesus is praised by the Messiah for rejecting "those who claim to be apostles, and they are not”. Shaul is the only person on record ever claiming to be an apostle who was rejected by the Ephesians. So if the Messiah was not talking about Shaul, then who was he talking about? It’s a fair question.

(2) Why did Shaul appear to change and contradict his own 'conversion story', even expanding on it in more detail once he started growing in popularity/influence? See Acts 9:1-18 and then compare Acts 26:10-19. It’s a fair question.

(3) Why did Shaul use spiritual power to blind a man in Acts 13:11? The Messiah and his chosen apostles never used spiritual power to blind anyone. They were harmless as lambs. So, what spirit empowered Shaul? It’s a fair question. Shaul’s alleged miracles are pretty suspicious, given that they are not mentioned in his letters sent in real time to people who could verify his statements in real time, but rather the miracles are stated in the Book of Acts that was written potentially decades after the events in question, thereby removing the likelihood of actual witnesses verifying or disputing the events. For example, in the Book of Acts a careless woman falls from a balcony and her state of consciousness is unclear when Shaul ‘revives’ her. Is that a miracle, or just a natural course of events in time? It is common for a person to be unconscious only for seconds or minutes. When Shaul was bitten by a snake, the text says he suffered no harm – again, the same thing happens to people on a daily basis with snake bites, either because the snake is not poisonous or because the body does not react to the venom; so was it really a miracle? Shaul also suffered personal ailments in his life that he could not heal and from which he did not recover. Just sayin.

(4) Why do churches today call Shaul's writing "scripture", when the literal text of the bible plainly calls them just "writing". For example, how is this statement in 2 Timothy 4:13 inspired, "When you come, bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, and my scrolls, especially the parchments." The word for true scripture is "gospel" or "law". Peter never referred to Shaul's writing as 'gospel' or 'law'. It’s interesting to read the debates whether Acts is inspired. Same for Luke.

The road to Damascus is in the wilderness.

Now read Matthew 24:26-28, "If therefore they will say to you, 'Behold, he is in the wilderness', you should not go out, or 'Behold, he is in an inner room', do not believe it. For just as lightning goes out from the east and appears unto the west, so will the coming of The Son of Man be."