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Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72341210
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06/27/2018 04:44 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
Heck, atheist philosophers hammer this idea home because every goofy atheist wannabe who tritely states, "Atheism is a lack of belief therefore the burden of proof is on you Christians..." is giving doltish answers and who knows nothing about atheism!

You atheists do NOT KNOW what you believe in! It's so goofy and ignorant.

This is why there is an equal burden of proof because you have a strong disbelief.
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2018 04:49 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
My gosh. Sigh. Please everyone read this.

[link to beliefmap.org (secure)]
Some atheist figureheads—notably Matt Dillahunty—have promoted the idea that, in addition to the word “non-theist”, the word “atheist” is also properly defined as: a person who lacks belief in God(s). This “lack of belief” definition would include agnostics under the definition of atheist, and so would crowd out defining atheism as the positive belief that God does not exist. (This community suggests calling a positive belief in God's non-existence, “strong atheism”). At least as far as there can be an answer to the question of whether a term is being used properly, is this community correct?

Academic sources unanimously answer “NO”
It might come down to the level of precision users want. In academic settings, where precision is aimed for, the answer is unanimous:
• Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (2011): “‘Atheism’ means the negation of theism, the denial of the existence of God.” [Atheism and Agnosticism, Online]
• Encyclopedia of Unbelief (2007), p. 88: “In its broadest sense atheism, from the Greek a (‘without’) and theos (‘deity’), standardly refers to the denial of the existence of any god or gods.”
• Encyclopedia of Philosophy 2nd ed. (2006), p.358 [in vol. 1 of 10]: “According to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no God, that is, that the sentence ‘God exists’ expresses a false proposition. In contrast, an agnostic maintains that it is not known or cannot be known whether there is a God”
• Oxford Companion to Philosophy, New Ed. (2005), p. 65: “Atheism is ostensibly the doctrine that there is no God. Some atheists support this claim by arguments. But these arguments are usually directed against the Christian concept of God, ... Agnosticism may be strictly personal and confessional—‘I have no firm belief about God’—or it may be the more ambitious claim that no one ought to have a positive belief for or against the divine existence.”
• Blackwell Dictionary of Western Philosophy (2004), p. 530: “The belief that God – especially a personal, omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent God – does not exist.”
• Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy (1998), entry by William Rowe: “As commonly understood, atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. So an atheist is someone who disbelieves in God, whereas a theist is someone who believes in God. … the common use of ‘atheism’ to mean disbelief in God is so thoroughly entrenched, we will follow it. We may use the term ‘non-theist’ to characterize the position of the negative atheist.”
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


Here, READ won't you? This is philosophy. What the OP is proposing is nonsense and blather and NOT philosophy.
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2018 04:57 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
No one gets a pass in philosophy. Anyone with any beliefs have to defend them with evidence, logic, or reason.

Without these tools, you have blind faith.

Then you pick the most likely explanation. This is why one of the oldest philosophical proofs is the Prime Mover by Aristotle. That which moves without being moved.

You atheists think you are right, but actually throughout recorded history, one famous philosopher after another used logic and reason to prove an Intelligent Designer of some kind created the Universe.
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2018 04:57 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
...


The evidence to support that there is no life after death is very simple. Its not observable, measurable or even probable.

Look at these two statements:
- I don't think that god exists
- I think that god doesn't exist

Can you spot the difference between them?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


My dream of a red pony is not observable, measurable, or even probable, and you cannot falsify my claim. Yet you do not question that claim. Why?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11375876


Simply because a dream is not reality, its nothing than your brain doing what it is supposed to do. But if you said you have a red pony in your closet, then it would be observable. Its like saying "I'm thinking about a lake right now", of course its not possible to measure or observe this it is only in my mind. But when I say: I know a being that created all lakes and oceans in this world, then you have the burden of proof.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


My red pony isn't reality? How can you even say that when you know exactly what I am talking about and didn't challenge it on any level? Are you saying you blindly believe in unreality to the point of not even questioning it? Interesting.

As for your saying it is nothing more than my brain doing what it is supposed to do, this is an ignorant* comment based on nothing more than your received belief that science has this stuff all figured out. If you think science understands why we dream, you are sadly mistaken.

Regardless, you keep dodging the point. Although the strong claim of yolo is the de facto belief of materialistic atheism, it is absolutely unsupportable by logic or reason. It doesn't even have any anecdotal evidence to support it. It is merely a claim made out of the air with no underlying support whatsoever.

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about the afterlife or whether they can support it. The point is that far from being guided by reason, logic, and evidence as they claim, atheists are just as faith based as anyone else.

And, as you are showing most wonderfully, when presented with arguments that challenge their cherished beliefs, instead of countering with reason, logic, or evidence, they will simply slide by those arguments just like so many religionists do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11375876


*I do hope that op will know that this use of ignorant is the clinical usage of not knowing and not the derogatory usage that was under debate earlier in this thread.
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2018 05:08 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
This is why atheism fails by every benchmark. I hope you realize this as you likely think you are a budding intellectual.

To be an atheist means you ignore all the evidence, logic, and reason. This is why both Issac Newton and Charles Darwin were not atheists.

Frankly this is why Neil deGrasse Tyson is not an atheist either. He is an agnostic as he feels that there is no evidence to believe in YHWH nor disbelieve in YHWH.

An agnostic primarily states, "I believe in evidence and peer review of findings. We can never know for certain based upon our limited tools and inability to look for all evidence."

The preponderance of self-declared atheists are most likely nonbelievers. They do not believe in YHWH as they have not taken the time to examine the evidence, logical proofs, and reasoned it out themselves.

Some are antitheists. And antitheist is someone who had a bad experience with religion and has rejected Christianity (almost always) but lacking evidence, logic, and reason. Many of these become satanic atheists. That is a specific philosophical definition, not a value judgement.

Some are Satanists. They admit they believe by faith in Lucifer.

Some are atheists but generally cannot explain it. A lot of you fit this category. This is a religious activity to you as your disbelief in YHWH lacks evidence, logic, and reason.
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

User ID: 75358302
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06/27/2018 05:17 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
This is why atheism fails by every benchmark. I hope you realize this as you likely think you are a budding intellectual.

To be an atheist means you ignore all the evidence, logic, and reason. This is why both Issac Newton and Charles Darwin were not atheists.

Frankly this is why Neil deGrasse Tyson is not an atheist either. He is an agnostic as he feels that there is no evidence to believe in YHWH nor disbelieve in YHWH.

An agnostic primarily states, "I believe in evidence and peer review of findings. We can never know for certain based upon our limited tools and inability to look for all evidence."

The preponderance of self-declared atheists are most likely nonbelievers. They do not believe in YHWH as they have not taken the time to examine the evidence, logical proofs, and reasoned it out themselves.

Some are antitheists. And antitheist is someone who had a bad experience with religion and has rejected Christianity (almost always) but lacking evidence, logic, and reason. Many of these become satanic atheists. That is a specific philosophical definition, not a value judgement.

Some are Satanists. They admit they believe by faith in Lucifer.

Some are atheists but generally cannot explain it. A lot of you fit this category. This is a religious activity to you as your disbelief in YHWH lacks evidence, logic, and reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


This one is your last post, this is not the thread for preaching. Wanna preach, make your own thread.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 44766950
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06/27/2018 05:26 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
Yeah OP I tried it.


Took about one second to realize that my religion is not a simple philosophy, or an edict from a book or a religious leader.


My religion is the culmination of a quest. A quest that included studying numerous documents, observing the world, people, and seeking the truth.

It has been very rewarding and helpful in enjoying life.

Thanks for the exercise.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 44766950


And thank you for you answer!
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


:-)
MarPep

User ID: 76711952
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06/27/2018 07:46 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
Trying to make good decisions on life/philosophy/religion when the vast majority of written histories and educational situations is controlled by one devious "sect" is fraught with dangers.

Currently reading the late Eustace Mullins' "New History of the ((them))". It's far different from most "history" books. He's not afraid of the consequences, even though he had been "up close and personal" with their hatred and punishment of his friend, Ezra Pound.

Thread killer?

Last Edited by MarPep on 06/27/2018 11:45 PM
_______________
They let me off with a warning and a couple of bullet holes.

Day after day, alone on a hill--
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2018 10:32 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
bump
Anonymous Coward
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06/27/2018 11:34 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
This is why atheism fails by every benchmark. I hope you realize this as you likely think you are a budding intellectual.

To be an atheist means you ignore all the evidence, logic, and reason. This is why both Issac Newton and Charles Darwin were not atheists.

Frankly this is why Neil deGrasse Tyson is not an atheist either. He is an agnostic as he feels that there is no evidence to believe in YHWH nor disbelieve in YHWH.

An agnostic primarily states, "I believe in evidence and peer review of findings. We can never know for certain based upon our limited tools and inability to look for all evidence."

The preponderance of self-declared atheists are most likely nonbelievers. They do not believe in YHWH as they have not taken the time to examine the evidence, logical proofs, and reasoned it out themselves.

Some are antitheists. And antitheist is someone who had a bad experience with religion and has rejected Christianity (almost always) but lacking evidence, logic, and reason. Many of these become satanic atheists. That is a specific philosophical definition, not a value judgement.

Some are Satanists. They admit they believe by faith in Lucifer.

Some are atheists but generally cannot explain it. A lot of you fit this category. This is a religious activity to you as your disbelief in YHWH lacks evidence, logic, and reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


This one is your last post, this is not the thread for preaching. Wanna preach, make your own thread.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


banhim5
TheLordsServant

User ID: 66163956
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06/28/2018 02:32 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
And although I like to debate about it, it is kinda derailing the thread, I'm interested into religious people responses to the mental exercise proposed.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


I can see why you are wanting to change the subject. But please keep in mind that you are just as religious as anyone because you have chosen to believe based on faith just as anyone else. Your faith may be in different sources, but it is faith all the same. This doesn't make it a bad thing, just a more accurate reflection of your worldview because to some degree faith is inescapable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11375876


Atheists have "faith" in the scientific method, and "belief" that anything that exists outside of the results of such method are not facts. Yet much of what they teach are mere THEORIES versus facts.

Case in point....Darwinism.

Christians have Belief that God and His Son Jesus truly exist, and Faith that what the Bible states as being true.

Their testimonies PROVE that Blessings and miracles are real, but are written off by atheists as luck / coincedence / happenstance.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
TheLordsServant

User ID: 66163956
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06/28/2018 02:35 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
This is why atheism fails by every benchmark. I hope you realize this as you likely think you are a budding intellectual.

To be an atheist means you ignore all the evidence, logic, and reason. This is why both Issac Newton and Charles Darwin were not atheists.

Frankly this is why Neil deGrasse Tyson is not an atheist either. He is an agnostic as he feels that there is no evidence to believe in YHWH nor disbelieve in YHWH.

An agnostic primarily states, "I believe in evidence and peer review of findings. We can never know for certain based upon our limited tools and inability to look for all evidence."

The preponderance of self-declared atheists are most likely nonbelievers. They do not believe in YHWH as they have not taken the time to examine the evidence, logical proofs, and reasoned it out themselves.

Some are antitheists. And antitheist is someone who had a bad experience with religion and has rejected Christianity (almost always) but lacking evidence, logic, and reason. Many of these become satanic atheists. That is a specific philosophical definition, not a value judgement.

Some are Satanists. They admit they believe by faith in Lucifer.

Some are atheists but generally cannot explain it. A lot of you fit this category. This is a religious activity to you as your disbelief in YHWH lacks evidence, logic, and reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


This one is your last post, this is not the thread for preaching. Wanna preach, make your own thread.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


How is what he said preaching?

Everything he said was fact.

whatever
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 15772945
United States
06/28/2018 03:42 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
This is why atheism fails by every benchmark. I hope you realize this as you likely think you are a budding intellectual.

To be an atheist means you ignore all the evidence, logic, and reason. This is why both Issac Newton and Charles Darwin were not atheists.

Frankly this is why Neil deGrasse Tyson is not an atheist either. He is an agnostic as he feels that there is no evidence to believe in YHWH nor disbelieve in YHWH.

An agnostic primarily states, "I believe in evidence and peer review of findings. We can never know for certain based upon our limited tools and inability to look for all evidence."

The preponderance of self-declared atheists are most likely nonbelievers. They do not believe in YHWH as they have not taken the time to examine the evidence, logical proofs, and reasoned it out themselves.

Some are antitheists. And antitheist is someone who had a bad experience with religion and has rejected Christianity (almost always) but lacking evidence, logic, and reason. Many of these become satanic atheists. That is a specific philosophical definition, not a value judgement.

Some are Satanists. They admit they believe by faith in Lucifer.

Some are atheists but generally cannot explain it. A lot of you fit this category. This is a religious activity to you as your disbelief in YHWH lacks evidence, logic, and reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


This one is your last post, this is not the thread for preaching. Wanna preach, make your own thread.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


How is what he said preaching?

Everything he said was fact.

whatever
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


How can an atheist also be an anti-theist? A person has to believe in something in order to be against it. About the only fact that poster said is that atheists are "most likely" non-believers. Given that is the definition of atheism, it isn't surprising he got that one right.
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

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06/28/2018 03:48 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
This is why atheism fails by every benchmark. I hope you realize this as you likely think you are a budding intellectual.

To be an atheist means you ignore all the evidence, logic, and reason. This is why both Issac Newton and Charles Darwin were not atheists.

Frankly this is why Neil deGrasse Tyson is not an atheist either. He is an agnostic as he feels that there is no evidence to believe in YHWH nor disbelieve in YHWH.

An agnostic primarily states, "I believe in evidence and peer review of findings. We can never know for certain based upon our limited tools and inability to look for all evidence."

The preponderance of self-declared atheists are most likely nonbelievers. They do not believe in YHWH as they have not taken the time to examine the evidence, logical proofs, and reasoned it out themselves.

Some are antitheists. And antitheist is someone who had a bad experience with religion and has rejected Christianity (almost always) but lacking evidence, logic, and reason. Many of these become satanic atheists. That is a specific philosophical definition, not a value judgement.

Some are Satanists. They admit they believe by faith in Lucifer.

Some are atheists but generally cannot explain it. A lot of you fit this category. This is a religious activity to you as your disbelief in YHWH lacks evidence, logic, and reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72341210


This one is your last post, this is not the thread for preaching. Wanna preach, make your own thread.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


How is what he said preaching?

Everything he said was fact.

whatever
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


How can an atheist also be an anti-theist? A person has to believe in something in order to be against it. About the only fact that poster said is that atheists are "most likely" non-believers. Given that is the definition of atheism, it isn't surprising he got that one right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15772945


For religious people it is all the same.
Anonymous Coward
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06/28/2018 04:28 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
For those that are wondering how an atheist would respond to the same question - Here is my answer:

If I was presented with credible evidence that my fundamental understanding of life and its origins were wrong, I would adapt quickly to the new reality, and do my best to thrive within its scope. That is basic human nature, and I would not resist it by stubbornly adhering to my old beliefs.





GLP