Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 11375876 United States 06/26/2018 08:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I agree partially. Religion itself is not exactly the problem. The problem is hot it is used. Some religions definitely are a problem to mankind. All religion should be applicable to self, primarily, and never used to subdue or damage other people Religions are multi-faceted and multi-leveled, but the core of virtually all of them applies to the individual while other levels deal with social groupings and controlling people. |
Petrus
User ID: 76674116 Canada 06/26/2018 08:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. , think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do? Quoting: MaybeTrollingU - If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting. - Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die Tell me which religions have faded. Many of them still seem to be around |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 08:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I agree partially. Religion itself is not exactly the problem. The problem is hot it is used. Some religions definitely are a problem to mankind. All religion should be applicable to self, primarily, and never used to subdue or damage other people Agreed. Unfortunately, this is not the case in the vast majority. Religion, sits on many pillars or combinations of these: Control people Fulfill greedy wills Dominate over the most people as possible They can be summarized in "power hunger". The strategies used are "bully-ish" level. They dominate over people either by fear, guilt or greed, if not by combinations of these. The common folk is usually unable to distinguish the logical fallacies implied, so they buy into the lie without hesitance. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 08:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. , think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do? Quoting: MaybeTrollingU - If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting. - Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die Tell me which religions have faded. Many of them still seem to be around Have you ever heard about Marduk? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76713787 United Kingdom 06/26/2018 08:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what is-light ..energy energy is-not created-can not be-destroyed can only be transferred it is-eternal it is cyclic like water cycle air cycle even weather cycles between ice age and warmer periods,yes even electron-astrophysics is cyclic, bearing this all in mind Nothing exists in isolation or outside of it. we are surrounded by band of electrical currents plasma circling the earth, An image in Mind; the immediate object of understanding think outside the box |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76252225 United States 06/26/2018 08:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die, think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do? Quoting: MaybeTrollingU - If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting. - Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking Please do not be offended by the following, but I believe it is true. The earth is flat and motionless! You might think this is just another ridiculous statement but the answer to your question starts there. you people have been really raped mentally by the elite. It is indeed Matrix and 1984 combined. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 08:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die, think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do? Quoting: MaybeTrollingU - If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting. - Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking Please do not be offended by the following, but I believe it is true. The earth is flat and motionless! You might think this is just another ridiculous statement but the answer to your question starts there. you people have been really raped mentally by the elite. It is indeed Matrix and 1984 combined. I'm not offended, but I don't see how it would answer "If there is no god and all your religion is a lie, what would you do?" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 11375876 United States 06/26/2018 08:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11375876 Ok, if you take as real that which you have evidence for, if your evidence changes, does reality change with it? I am using both a logical and scientific approach, which is why I stated at the start that once you stripped away all the lies of religion in your thought experiment, all that was left was what remained untouched by those lies, the fact of your own existence, I am. Perhaps that is related to your "egocentric predicament." Just to clarify, the egocentric predicament, is a psychological/phylosophical study. It deals on the possibility that the whole universe is nothing than a manifestation of my brain, meaning that there is nothing else, except me and my thoughts. It goes way beyond that, but just to summarize. If evidence changes, then the understanding of reality might change, not the reality itself. Its like discovering a new talent. Suppose someday you find out you're a very good mason(as in laying bricks and making brick walls). Does that change who you are? It might change your behavior and future endeavors, but it will not change you as a whole. What you are describing sounds like a cousin to solipsism, the idea that all you can know for certain is your mind. All of my behavior, just as with all of my thoughts, feelings, or perceptions, are things about me, just as yours are things about you. But who is having these experiences? What doesn't change even amid the continual flux of thoughts, feelings, or perceptions? Is that not reality? Egocentric predicament is a modern envision of solipsism. According to it, as far as we know, we can be a brain floating in a jar, or something else, thinking to be a brain, thinking to be in a universe, thinking to be a brain in a jar... One can go insane on that line of thought. But then again, we gotta have at least one common ground. Until proven otherwise, this is our universe, this is our life and reality is what we experience. Ah, the brain in a vat. Got it. But the rest of what you add points back to your op, so I would ask you to engage in your own thought experiment. What if this universe, this life and what we experience is not reality, but was instead illusory? What would you do? What of those that claim that all of what you cite has been proven otherwise and the evidence is open to logical and scientific verification by anyone willing to follow the path of inquiry? |
MarPep
User ID: 76711952 United States 06/26/2018 08:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die, think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do? Quoting: MaybeTrollingU - If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting. - Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking Please do not be offended by the following, but I believe it is true. The earth is flat and motionless! You might think this is just another ridiculous statement but the answer to your question starts there. you people have been really raped mentally by the elite. It is indeed Matrix and 1984 combined. Tonight at midnight in some zone in the US, call some one in India and ask where the sun is. _______________ They let me off with a warning and a couple of bullet holes. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76252225 United States 06/26/2018 08:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die, think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do? Quoting: MaybeTrollingU - If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting. - Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking Please do not be offended by the following, but I believe it is true. The earth is flat and motionless! You might think this is just another ridiculous statement but the answer to your question starts there. you people have been really raped mentally by the elite. It is indeed Matrix and 1984 combined. I'm not offended, but I don't see how it would answer "If there is no god and all your religion is a lie, what would you do?" I believe it is the holy grail answer to your question. The sentence "If there is not God" is a false statement, because if earth is flat, then there is God. Because it requires a maker. But, it would be depressing if my religion (Christianity) is wrong. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 08:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: MaybeTrollingU Just to clarify, the egocentric predicament, is a psychological/phylosophical study. It deals on the possibility that the whole universe is nothing than a manifestation of my brain, meaning that there is nothing else, except me and my thoughts. It goes way beyond that, but just to summarize. If evidence changes, then the understanding of reality might change, not the reality itself. Its like discovering a new talent. Suppose someday you find out you're a very good mason(as in laying bricks and making brick walls). Does that change who you are? It might change your behavior and future endeavors, but it will not change you as a whole. What you are describing sounds like a cousin to solipsism, the idea that all you can know for certain is your mind. All of my behavior, just as with all of my thoughts, feelings, or perceptions, are things about me, just as yours are things about you. But who is having these experiences? What doesn't change even amid the continual flux of thoughts, feelings, or perceptions? Is that not reality? Egocentric predicament is a modern envision of solipsism. According to it, as far as we know, we can be a brain floating in a jar, or something else, thinking to be a brain, thinking to be in a universe, thinking to be a brain in a jar... One can go insane on that line of thought. But then again, we gotta have at least one common ground. Until proven otherwise, this is our universe, this is our life and reality is what we experience. Ah, the brain in a vat. Got it. But the rest of what you add points back to your op, so I would ask you to engage in your own thought experiment. What if this universe, this life and what we experience is not reality, but was instead illusory? What would you do? What of those that claim that all of what you cite has been proven otherwise and the evidence is open to logical and scientific verification by anyone willing to follow the path of inquiry? At first, I would be skeptic and would no doubt inquire about it. Its a big claim and big claims require big evidence. But if verified, I would for sure go into this "new reality". |
Petrus
User ID: 76674116 Canada 06/26/2018 08:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ask yourself, do you trust in science? Did scientists uncover everything? Has ALL been discovered in what is known as 'nature' or possibly in the 'supernatural' ? Does science in general research the mechanics of consciousness? Hardly. If your foundation in how reality works is in science, then your foundation is built on sand. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 08:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die, think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do? Quoting: MaybeTrollingU - If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting. - Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking Please do not be offended by the following, but I believe it is true. The earth is flat and motionless! You might think this is just another ridiculous statement but the answer to your question starts there. you people have been really raped mentally by the elite. It is indeed Matrix and 1984 combined. I'm not offended, but I don't see how it would answer "If there is no god and all your religion is a lie, what would you do?" I believe it is the holy grail answer to your question. The sentence "If there is not God" is a false statement, because if earth is flat, then there is God. Because it requires a maker. But, it would be depressing if my religion (Christianity) is wrong. It was not a statement, but a question. Its intelectually dishonest to dismember a question like you did. Even if the question is partioned, as in, stablishing a scenario before asking. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 08:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ask yourself, do you trust in science? Quoting: Petrus Did scientists uncover everything? Has ALL been discovered in what is known as 'nature' or possibly in the 'supernatural' ? Does science in general research the mechanics of consciousness? Hardly. If your foundation in how reality works is in science, then your foundation is built on sand. Look around you. Look in front of you. We are tens of thousands of miles apart and still able to communicate. This is one of the several science achievements we are able to enjoy. Along with medicine, clothing, building and hundreds more advancements. They are all science. Of course science doesn't have answers for every single thing in the universe. It is ok thou. The fallacy resides in: "Science doesn't explain it all, therefore god". |
Petrus
User ID: 76674116 Canada 06/26/2018 09:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 11375876 United States 06/26/2018 09:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11375876 What you are describing sounds like a cousin to solipsism, the idea that all you can know for certain is your mind. All of my behavior, just as with all of my thoughts, feelings, or perceptions, are things about me, just as yours are things about you. But who is having these experiences? What doesn't change even amid the continual flux of thoughts, feelings, or perceptions? Is that not reality? Egocentric predicament is a modern envision of solipsism. According to it, as far as we know, we can be a brain floating in a jar, or something else, thinking to be a brain, thinking to be in a universe, thinking to be a brain in a jar... One can go insane on that line of thought. But then again, we gotta have at least one common ground. Until proven otherwise, this is our universe, this is our life and reality is what we experience. Ah, the brain in a vat. Got it. But the rest of what you add points back to your op, so I would ask you to engage in your own thought experiment. What if this universe, this life and what we experience is not reality, but was instead illusory? What would you do? What of those that claim that all of what you cite has been proven otherwise and the evidence is open to logical and scientific verification by anyone willing to follow the path of inquiry? At first, I would be skeptic and would no doubt inquire about it. Its a big claim and big claims require big evidence. But if verified, I would for sure go into this "new reality". Ok. But it is not a new reality. It is merely an inquiry into the illusory nature of what we call reality. And even there, the inquiry itself is not new, but is as old or older than any of the religions. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 09:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Petrus
User ID: 76674116 Canada 06/26/2018 09:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ask yourself, do you trust in science? Quoting: Petrus Did scientists uncover everything? Has ALL been discovered in what is known as 'nature' or possibly in the 'supernatural' ? Does science in general research the mechanics of consciousness? Hardly. If your foundation in how reality works is in science, then your foundation is built on sand. Look around you. Look in front of you. We are tens of thousands of miles apart and still able to communicate. This is one of the several science achievements we are able to enjoy. Along with medicine, clothing, building and hundreds more advancements. They are all science. Of course science doesn't have answers for every single thing in the universe. It is ok thou. The fallacy resides in: "Science doesn't explain it all, therefore god". No. Science hasn't discovered everything, therefore you can't come to the conclusion that there is no God. The right thing to do is conclude that you are an agnostic. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 09:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: MaybeTrollingU Egocentric predicament is a modern envision of solipsism. According to it, as far as we know, we can be a brain floating in a jar, or something else, thinking to be a brain, thinking to be in a universe, thinking to be a brain in a jar... One can go insane on that line of thought. But then again, we gotta have at least one common ground. Until proven otherwise, this is our universe, this is our life and reality is what we experience. Ah, the brain in a vat. Got it. But the rest of what you add points back to your op, so I would ask you to engage in your own thought experiment. What if this universe, this life and what we experience is not reality, but was instead illusory? What would you do? What of those that claim that all of what you cite has been proven otherwise and the evidence is open to logical and scientific verification by anyone willing to follow the path of inquiry? At first, I would be skeptic and would no doubt inquire about it. Its a big claim and big claims require big evidence. But if verified, I would for sure go into this "new reality". Ok. But it is not a new reality. It is merely an inquiry into the illusory nature of what we call reality. And even there, the inquiry itself is not new, but is as old or older than any of the religions. Like the brain in a vat thingy, suppose I am a brain in a vat. I think I'll probably feel happy. Because this world is wicked in basically all ways. It will give me the chance to start it over |
Petrus
User ID: 76674116 Canada 06/26/2018 09:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The real issue is not RELIGION. Quoting: Petrus The real issue is 'WHAT IS TRUTH"? If I found out 'my truth' was a lie, I would move on and look for the WHAT THE TRUTH REALLY IS for why we exist. Does this make sense OP? Sort of... truth is not personal. By definition, it can't be. I'm talking about ABSOLUTE TRUTH. The TRUTH we ALL share. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 09:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ask yourself, do you trust in science? Quoting: Petrus Did scientists uncover everything? Has ALL been discovered in what is known as 'nature' or possibly in the 'supernatural' ? Does science in general research the mechanics of consciousness? Hardly. If your foundation in how reality works is in science, then your foundation is built on sand. Look around you. Look in front of you. We are tens of thousands of miles apart and still able to communicate. This is one of the several science achievements we are able to enjoy. Along with medicine, clothing, building and hundreds more advancements. They are all science. Of course science doesn't have answers for every single thing in the universe. It is ok thou. The fallacy resides in: "Science doesn't explain it all, therefore god". No. Science hasn't discovered everything, therefore you can't come to the conclusion that there is no God. The right thing to do is conclude that you are an agnostic. This is also a fallacy, I'm affraid. You're basically saying: "Science cannot disprove the existence of god, therefore he might be real". Its the same as saying "Science cannot disprove the existence of unicorns, therefore they might exist". On the other hand, even though all evidence points to god not existing, it cannot be fully dismissed. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 11375876 United States 06/26/2018 09:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ask yourself, do you trust in science? Quoting: Petrus Did scientists uncover everything? Has ALL been discovered in what is known as 'nature' or possibly in the 'supernatural' ? Does science in general research the mechanics of consciousness? Hardly. If your foundation in how reality works is in science, then your foundation is built on sand. Look around you. Look in front of you. We are tens of thousands of miles apart and still able to communicate. This is one of the several science achievements we are able to enjoy. Along with medicine, clothing, building and hundreds more advancements. They are all science. Of course science doesn't have answers for every single thing in the universe. It is ok thou. The fallacy resides in: "Science doesn't explain it all, therefore god". I would say that you are conflating science and technology. Science is a method of inquiry, technology is the results springing from discoveries made with that method on the material level. But what if that method of inquiry were taken up in order to investigate your own nature? What if it were used to investigate who you really are? |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 09:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The real issue is not RELIGION. Quoting: Petrus The real issue is 'WHAT IS TRUTH"? If I found out 'my truth' was a lie, I would move on and look for the WHAT THE TRUTH REALLY IS for why we exist. Does this make sense OP? Sort of... truth is not personal. By definition, it can't be. I'm talking about ABSOLUTE TRUTH. The TRUTH we ALL share. There is no such thing as absolute truth. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76675038 United States 06/26/2018 09:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Petrus
User ID: 76674116 Canada 06/26/2018 09:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ask yourself, do you trust in science? Quoting: Petrus Did scientists uncover everything? Has ALL been discovered in what is known as 'nature' or possibly in the 'supernatural' ? Does science in general research the mechanics of consciousness? Hardly. If your foundation in how reality works is in science, then your foundation is built on sand. Look around you. Look in front of you. We are tens of thousands of miles apart and still able to communicate. This is one of the several science achievements we are able to enjoy. Along with medicine, clothing, building and hundreds more advancements. They are all science. Of course science doesn't have answers for every single thing in the universe. It is ok thou. The fallacy resides in: "Science doesn't explain it all, therefore god". No. Science hasn't discovered everything, therefore you can't come to the conclusion that there is no God. The right thing to do is conclude that you are an agnostic. This is also a fallacy, I'm affraid. You're basically saying: "Science cannot disprove the existence of god, therefore he might be real". Its the same as saying "Science cannot disprove the existence of unicorns, therefore they might exist". On the other hand, even though all evidence points to god not existing, it cannot be fully dismissed. "even though all evidence points to god not existing," Outright lie. Have you looked inside a living cell? Everything is programmed to work a specific way. To every program there is a Programmer. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 09:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ask yourself, do you trust in science? Quoting: Petrus Did scientists uncover everything? Has ALL been discovered in what is known as 'nature' or possibly in the 'supernatural' ? Does science in general research the mechanics of consciousness? Hardly. If your foundation in how reality works is in science, then your foundation is built on sand. Look around you. Look in front of you. We are tens of thousands of miles apart and still able to communicate. This is one of the several science achievements we are able to enjoy. Along with medicine, clothing, building and hundreds more advancements. They are all science. Of course science doesn't have answers for every single thing in the universe. It is ok thou. The fallacy resides in: "Science doesn't explain it all, therefore god". I would say that you are conflating science and technology. Science is a method of inquiry, technology is the results springing from discoveries made with that method on the material level. But what if that method of inquiry were taken up in order to investigate your own nature? What if it were used to investigate who you really are? As I understand, you're talking about trust on science. I absolutelly understand this point. Why should we trust science? Simple, because we can for sure atest that its method, is reliable by its results. They are constant and predictable. Can "they" still be lying to us? Of course its possible! But again, the very same scientific method can be applied reflective into science. It has been done many times and the results are also consistent, pointing it(science) is trustworthy |
Petrus
User ID: 76674116 Canada 06/26/2018 09:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The real issue is not RELIGION. Quoting: Petrus The real issue is 'WHAT IS TRUTH"? If I found out 'my truth' was a lie, I would move on and look for the WHAT THE TRUTH REALLY IS for why we exist. Does this make sense OP? Sort of... truth is not personal. By definition, it can't be. I'm talking about ABSOLUTE TRUTH. The TRUTH we ALL share. There is no such thing as absolute truth. Really?? LOL This universe would be chaos if that were a fact. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 09:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: MaybeTrollingU Look around you. Look in front of you. We are tens of thousands of miles apart and still able to communicate. This is one of the several science achievements we are able to enjoy. Along with medicine, clothing, building and hundreds more advancements. They are all science. Of course science doesn't have answers for every single thing in the universe. It is ok thou. The fallacy resides in: "Science doesn't explain it all, therefore god". No. Science hasn't discovered everything, therefore you can't come to the conclusion that there is no God. The right thing to do is conclude that you are an agnostic. This is also a fallacy, I'm affraid. You're basically saying: "Science cannot disprove the existence of god, therefore he might be real". Its the same as saying "Science cannot disprove the existence of unicorns, therefore they might exist". On the other hand, even though all evidence points to god not existing, it cannot be fully dismissed. "even though all evidence points to god not existing," Outright lie. Have you looked inside a living cell? Everything is programmed to work a specific way. To every program there is a Programmer. Another fallacy. Commonly know as "the watchmaker fallacy". Whenever one's enlightment and knowledge of basic science grows, this fallacy destroys itself. |
MaybeTrollingU
(OP) User ID: 36524530 Brazil 06/26/2018 09:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76252225 United States 06/26/2018 09:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If there is no God? Then hypothetically we would live in a survival of the fittest pure 100% jungle life with no set of rules that modern civilization is enjoying. God not being there means that the correct Software, (instructions to humans, or monkeys if you believe you are), such as do not steal, or do not take his wife etc would not apply. And "NO I will not obey your rule" will be what everyone will say because there will be no fear of 'god'. But yes, weather Earth is flat or not should be added and should parallel this discussion because IF earth is flat then God exist. I know earth is flat and motionless therefor the sentence GOD DOES NOT EXIST will be an invalid statement. "if there is no god what would you do?". If my religion is wrong then It would be a jungle and hell here on earth. Worst than it is now. Just like the godless countries you see around the world. |