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Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people

 
Petrus

User ID: 76674116
Canada
06/26/2018 09:42 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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Some religions definitely are a problem to mankind. All religion should be applicable to self, primarily, and never used to subdue or damage other people
 Quoting: MarPep


Agreed. Unfortunately, this is not the case in the vast majority. Religion, sits on many pillars or combinations of these:
Control people
Fulfill greedy wills
Dominate over the most people as possible

They can be summarized in "power hunger". The strategies used are "bully-ish" level. They dominate over people either by fear, guilt or greed, if not by combinations of these. The common folk is usually unable to distinguish the logical fallacies implied, so they buy into the lie without hesitance.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU

Organized Christian religions sometimes do this, although they would not find grounds to do so in the teachings of Christ. Judaism and Islam are profoundly supremacist religions (even worse with the atheistic Judaism). The Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule show how a true Christian should respond to others.

Religions which impose the necessity of control or domination of others should be considered ideologies, not true religion--at least in my mind's eye.
 Quoting: MarPep


I might be mistaken, but one of the very basic principles of christianity is to spread the word so everyone would know Christ. That only in Christ can mankind be good. This also sounds supremacist to me.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Well if you won't let Christ (God) recreate your heart, then continue being evil. No one is forcing you to believe.
TeChNoXiC®

User ID: 76713940
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06/26/2018 09:45 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
This isn’t a “discussion”, as you already provided constricted parameters that go against MANY religions.

As a Christian, I never say “I can’t”. If I did, I would consult Jesus, as He CAN, therefore I can.

The thread discussion you’ve proposed falls into a line of deception, to request people to question and doubt the very faith their life and salvation is grounded. Not a very successful way to get people to ‘see’ YOUR way of thinking.
 Quoting: TeChNoXiC®


A faith that can be shaken with questioning itself, is not strong or firm. Is like asking you: "Are you a good person?" or "Do you love your mother?" and you be reluctant to answer "yes", and by doing so you see for yourself that you are not a good person, in this analogy.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Thanks for your reply - it was quite anticipated you’d say just that.

A question for you, since this is a discussion. What is your motive for asking people to question their religion, and secondly, when feedback or replies are given defending their said religion, you claim “religious bias”?

Again, ‘religion’ is founded on faith, moreover the Truth, and when one proclaims their belief in this truth, you don’t want to listen. Simply, why?
I'm not a doctor; I don't have patience.
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2018 09:45 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
I would wonder why nobody said that Jesus didn’t really exist. I’d wonder why 500 witnesses attested to seeing the risen Christ. I’d wonder how insane liars came up with the philosophy that has shaped the life of billions and caused amazing changes for the better in people I know personally. I’d wonder why millions of martyrs died for their faith throughout the ages, including the 12 apostles of Christ, 11 of whom were martyred while one survived being thrown in hot oil and lived the rest of his life in excruciating pain.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75452757


I don't think you abstracted faith in your answer. It sounds religious biased.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


I and those millions of martyrs believe that God became incarnate, paid the penalty for the sins of all men for all time on the cross, and conquered death, leaving us the gift of his Spirit to strengthen us on our quest to live a selfless life that helps us become the people God made us to be and worthy of being in the presence of God eternally in Heaven. I think believing that a guy rose from the dead involves faith.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75452757


Yes, positive now that your answer is religion biased. Thanks anyway!
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Yeah, I’m Christian. Knock and the door will be opened for you. You’re welcome.
MarPep

User ID: 76711952
United States
06/26/2018 09:46 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people

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Maybe the idea of "a" God being the "right" one is the start of all the problems.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11375876


So there could be multiple "right" gods? I mean we come from somewhere and yet the Bible and any other religious text were all written by humans and probably also translated/mistranslated numerous times so they're going to be flawed.

Maybe the better way to put it is what is spiritual truth?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76426692


I for one, would say there are no "right" gods.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76507967


Perhaps "God," rightly considered, is that thing we consider the most important in our existence? For those that I consider true Christians, that is the Spirit of Truth (which you deny exists) and Love, and Justice.

An interesting aside, is--"Is God a production of evolved intelligent Life?" The idea of an Egregore--an entity of intention created by the will of conscious living (or "passed" Living) beings--that is capable of action on the plane of existence--would make the conception of a living (awake to the here and now existence of everyone) God possible. Such a God would not necessarily be incompatible with the God of Christ.

Last Edited by MarPep on 06/26/2018 09:47 PM
_______________
They let me off with a warning and a couple of bullet holes.

Day after day, alone on a hill--
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

User ID: 36524530
Brazil
06/26/2018 09:46 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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Agreed. Unfortunately, this is not the case in the vast majority. Religion, sits on many pillars or combinations of these:
Control people
Fulfill greedy wills
Dominate over the most people as possible

They can be summarized in "power hunger". The strategies used are "bully-ish" level. They dominate over people either by fear, guilt or greed, if not by combinations of these. The common folk is usually unable to distinguish the logical fallacies implied, so they buy into the lie without hesitance.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU

Organized Christian religions sometimes do this, although they would not find grounds to do so in the teachings of Christ. Judaism and Islam are profoundly supremacist religions (even worse with the atheistic Judaism). The Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule show how a true Christian should respond to others.

Religions which impose the necessity of control or domination of others should be considered ideologies, not true religion--at least in my mind's eye.
 Quoting: MarPep


I might be mistaken, but one of the very basic principles of christianity is to spread the word so everyone would know Christ. That only in Christ can mankind be good. This also sounds supremacist to me.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Well if you won't let Christ (God) recreate your heart, then continue being evil. No one is forcing you to believe.
 Quoting: Petrus


Lets face it this way: I point a loaded and cocked gun to your head and ask: "Give me your money or I'll shoot. Its your choice". Is it really a choice? Will it be suicide if you don't give me the money and I shoot? What if I decide that its not enough money in case you give me and shoot anyway?

Its the same thing with mafia. You run your business fine, I'll "protect you" from myself. Just give me money every month and I won't break your legs. Its your choice. Is it really a choice?
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2018 09:48 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die, think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do?

- If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting.
- Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


I would live until I die.

How is this supposed to be a difficult question?
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

User ID: 36524530
Brazil
06/26/2018 09:49 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
This isn’t a “discussion”, as you already provided constricted parameters that go against MANY religions.

As a Christian, I never say “I can’t”. If I did, I would consult Jesus, as He CAN, therefore I can.

The thread discussion you’ve proposed falls into a line of deception, to request people to question and doubt the very faith their life and salvation is grounded. Not a very successful way to get people to ‘see’ YOUR way of thinking.
 Quoting: TeChNoXiC®


A faith that can be shaken with questioning itself, is not strong or firm. Is like asking you: "Are you a good person?" or "Do you love your mother?" and you be reluctant to answer "yes", and by doing so you see for yourself that you are not a good person, in this analogy.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Thanks for your reply - it was quite anticipated you’d say just that.

A question for you, since this is a discussion. What is your motive for asking people to question their religion, and secondly, when feedback or replies are given defending their said religion, you claim “religious bias”?

Again, ‘religion’ is founded on faith, moreover the Truth, and when one proclaims their belief in this truth, you don’t want to listen. Simply, why?
 Quoting: TeChNoXiC®


Because its not what I purposed. I asked to abstract(take off) every siingle religious bias. I'm perfectly fine with people having a religion and defending it. I just want to know how religious people react, that is all.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 73215615
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06/26/2018 09:50 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
This isn’t a “discussion”, as you already provided constricted parameters that go against MANY religions.

As a Christian, I never say “I can’t”. If I did, I would consult Jesus, as He CAN, therefore I can.

The thread discussion you’ve proposed falls into a line of deception, to request people to question and doubt the very faith their life and salvation is grounded. Not a very successful way to get people to ‘see’ YOUR way of thinking.
 Quoting: TeChNoXiC®


A faith that can be shaken with questioning itself, is not strong or firm. Is like asking you: "Are you a good person?" or "Do you love your mother?" and you be reluctant to answer "yes", and by doing so you see for yourself that you are not a good person, in this analogy.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Thanks for your reply - it was quite anticipated you’d say just that.

A question for you, since this is a discussion. What is your motive for asking people to question their religion, and secondly, when feedback or replies are given defending their said religion, you claim “religious bias”?

Again, ‘religion’ is founded on faith, moreover the Truth, and when one proclaims their belief in this truth, you don’t want to listen. Simply, why?
 Quoting: TeChNoXiC®


Because its not what I purposed. I asked to abstract(take off) every siingle religious bias. I'm perfectly fine with people having a religion and defending it. I just want to know how religious people react, that is all.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Burden of proof is on you evotards

Evolution is a religion by definition.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76471987
Canada
06/26/2018 09:51 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
Inventing your own god, good luck with it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75329801


exactly. ^^^^ this.

Deuteronomy 4:2

2 You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32

32 “[a]Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Revelation 22:18

18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
SeveNation
User ID: 73739476
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06/26/2018 09:51 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
The greatest religious belief is that
Nothing caused nothing to explode and
Nothingness arranged bits of nothing into something
So COMPLEX that we can't fully understand
It today...
MarPep

User ID: 76711952
United States
06/26/2018 09:52 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
...


Some religions definitely are a problem to mankind. All religion should be applicable to self, primarily, and never used to subdue or damage other people
 Quoting: MarPep


Agreed. Unfortunately, this is not the case in the vast majority. Religion, sits on many pillars or combinations of these:
Control people
Fulfill greedy wills
Dominate over the most people as possible

They can be summarized in "power hunger". The strategies used are "bully-ish" level. They dominate over people either by fear, guilt or greed, if not by combinations of these. The common folk is usually unable to distinguish the logical fallacies implied, so they buy into the lie without hesitance.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU

Organized Christian religions sometimes do this, although they would not find grounds to do so in the teachings of Christ. Judaism and Islam are profoundly supremacist religions (even worse with the atheistic Judaism). The Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule show how a true Christian should respond to others.

Religions which impose the necessity of control or domination of others should be considered ideologies, not true religion--at least in my mind's eye.
 Quoting: MarPep


I might be mistaken, but one of the very basic principles of christianity is to spread the word so everyone would know Christ. That only in Christ can mankind be good. This also sounds supremacist to me.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Spreading "the Word" of Truth so that others may profit in their lives is essentially the opposite of the supremacism of Judaism and Islam.
_______________
They let me off with a warning and a couple of bullet holes.

Day after day, alone on a hill--
TeChNoXiC®

User ID: 76713940
United States
06/26/2018 09:52 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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Organized Christian religions sometimes do this, although they would not find grounds to do so in the teachings of Christ. Judaism and Islam are profoundly supremacist religions (even worse with the atheistic Judaism). The Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule show how a true Christian should respond to others.

Religions which impose the necessity of control or domination of others should be considered ideologies, not true religion--at least in my mind's eye.
 Quoting: MarPep


I might be mistaken, but one of the very basic principles of christianity is to spread the word so everyone would know Christ. That only in Christ can mankind be good. This also sounds supremacist to me.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Well if you won't let Christ (God) recreate your heart, then continue being evil. No one is forcing you to believe.
 Quoting: Petrus


Lets face it this way: I point a loaded and cocked gun to your head and ask: "Give me your money or I'll shoot. Its your choice". Is it really a choice? Will it be suicide if you don't give me the money and I shoot? What if I decide that its not enough money in case you give me and shoot anyway?

Its the same thing with mafia. You run your business fine, I'll "protect you" from myself. Just give me money every month and I won't break your legs. Its your choice. Is it really a choice?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


But you see, in that example, the choice is YOURS. You’ve created the situation, are controlling it, and have the choice of how it ends.

The coerced victim is also given a choice, but perhaps their choice ends with salvation, and not yours.
I'm not a doctor; I don't have patience.
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

User ID: 36524530
Brazil
06/26/2018 09:52 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people

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So there could be multiple "right" gods? I mean we come from somewhere and yet the Bible and any other religious text were all written by humans and probably also translated/mistranslated numerous times so they're going to be flawed.

Maybe the better way to put it is what is spiritual truth?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76426692


I for one, would say there are no "right" gods.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76507967


Perhaps "God," rightly considered, is that thing we consider the most important in our existence? For those that I consider true Christians, that is the Spirit of Truth (which you deny exists) and Love, and Justice.

An interesting aside, is--"Is God a production of evolved intelligent Life?" The idea of an Egregore--an entity of intention created by the will of conscious living (or "passed" Living) beings--that is capable of action on the plane of existence--would make the conception of a living (awake to the here and now existence of everyone) God possible. Such a God would not necessarily be incompatible with the God of Christ.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


It would also not be incompatible with the god in islam, or the hindi gods pantheon or even budhism as a whole.
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2018 09:54 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
My answer is simple: At the moment that the particular religion were proven a lie or false, people will choose to believe in whoever or whatever they want. Some will even still believe their previously proven "false" belief, because it is what works for them.
Petrus

User ID: 76674116
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06/26/2018 09:54 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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Organized Christian religions sometimes do this, although they would not find grounds to do so in the teachings of Christ. Judaism and Islam are profoundly supremacist religions (even worse with the atheistic Judaism). The Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule show how a true Christian should respond to others.

Religions which impose the necessity of control or domination of others should be considered ideologies, not true religion--at least in my mind's eye.
 Quoting: MarPep


I might be mistaken, but one of the very basic principles of christianity is to spread the word so everyone would know Christ. That only in Christ can mankind be good. This also sounds supremacist to me.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Well if you won't let Christ (God) recreate your heart, then continue being evil. No one is forcing you to believe.
 Quoting: Petrus


Lets face it this way: I point a loaded and cocked gun to your head and ask: "Give me your money or I'll shoot. Its your choice". Is it really a choice? Will it be suicide if you don't give me the money and I shoot? What if I decide that its not enough money in case you give me and shoot anyway?

Its the same thing with mafia. You run your business fine, I'll "protect you" from myself. Just give me money every month and I won't break your legs. Its your choice. Is it really a choice?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Let's face it this way.....
Your sin is weighing you down and at the end of your life you slip into outer darkness because you would not repent (turn away form your sinning) and turn your life over to God's control while He had His outstretched hand toward you.... Who's fault is it if you did not willingly receive that RESCUE? Is it not because you choose to hang on to sin?

Last Edited by Petrus on 06/26/2018 09:56 PM
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

User ID: 36524530
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06/26/2018 09:55 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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I might be mistaken, but one of the very basic principles of christianity is to spread the word so everyone would know Christ. That only in Christ can mankind be good. This also sounds supremacist to me.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Well if you won't let Christ (God) recreate your heart, then continue being evil. No one is forcing you to believe.
 Quoting: Petrus


Lets face it this way: I point a loaded and cocked gun to your head and ask: "Give me your money or I'll shoot. Its your choice". Is it really a choice? Will it be suicide if you don't give me the money and I shoot? What if I decide that its not enough money in case you give me and shoot anyway?

Its the same thing with mafia. You run your business fine, I'll "protect you" from myself. Just give me money every month and I won't break your legs. Its your choice. Is it really a choice?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


But you see, in that example, the choice is YOURS. You’ve created the situation, are controlling it, and have the choice of how it ends.

The coerced victim is also given a choice, but perhaps their choice ends with salvation, and not yours.
 Quoting: TeChNoXiC®


Exactly. This is exactly what most religions offer. In this analogy, god being the one whom created the situation and is coearcing the victim, which is you. Its like "Let me save you from the harm I'll do to you if you don't do what I say"
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2018 09:55 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
OP, can we agree that religion is a mechanism to explain the meaning of life and why we exist?

So let's take 'religion' out of it and call it "the persuit of TRUTH", even if it means there might be a Higher consciousness which exists and that created it all?
 Quoting: Petrus


Pontius Pilate to Jesus: What is truth?

Jesus: For this reason I was born, and for this reason I came into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who hears the truth hears my voice.

Pilate: I find no fault in this man.

John 18
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75452757


Although the rules are not to quote Bible, this quote makes Bible more authentic.

I don't think people made up that story. Especially 2000 years old peasants.
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

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06/26/2018 09:55 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
My answer is simple: At the moment that the particular religion were proven a lie or false, people will choose to believe in whoever or whatever they want. Some will even still believe their previously proven "false" belief, because it is what works for them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8748162


Thank you for your answer!
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2018 09:56 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die, think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do?

- If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting.
- Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


I would live until I die.


How is this supposed to be a difficult question?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76713961
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

User ID: 36524530
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06/26/2018 09:57 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
...


I might be mistaken, but one of the very basic principles of christianity is to spread the word so everyone would know Christ. That only in Christ can mankind be good. This also sounds supremacist to me.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Well if you won't let Christ (God) recreate your heart, then continue being evil. No one is forcing you to believe.
 Quoting: Petrus


Lets face it this way: I point a loaded and cocked gun to your head and ask: "Give me your money or I'll shoot. Its your choice". Is it really a choice? Will it be suicide if you don't give me the money and I shoot? What if I decide that its not enough money in case you give me and shoot anyway?

Its the same thing with mafia. You run your business fine, I'll "protect you" from myself. Just give me money every month and I won't break your legs. Its your choice. Is it really a choice?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Let's face it this way.....
Your sin is weighing you down and at the end of your life you slip into outer darkness because you would not repent (turn away form your sinning) and turn your life over to God's control while He had His oustretched hand toward you.... Who's fault is it if you did not willing receive that RESCUE? Is it not because you choose to hang on to sin?
 Quoting: Petrus


Sin, god, salvation... all these according to who?
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

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06/26/2018 09:59 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
Its a thought exercise, an abstraction exercise. If you can, imagine that all you know about your specific religion is a lie. Like all the religions along history that arise, faded and die, think that your religion is also a lie. What would you do?

- If you can't do it and go with the path "It can't be" or "I just can't cope with such an idea", don't bother posting.
- Don't quote the bible, its pointless for the exercise, if you can't do it, you fall under the category above, of people incapable of abstract thinking
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


I would live until I die.


How is this supposed to be a difficult question?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76713961

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76713961


Thanks for your answer!
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2018 09:59 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
My answer is simple: At the moment that the particular religion were proven a lie or false, people will choose to believe in whoever or whatever they want. Some will even still believe their previously proven "false" belief, because it is what works for them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8748162


Thank you for your answer!
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


You are welcome OP. I hope my answer is helpful in any way to you.
MarPep

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06/26/2018 09:59 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people

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I for one, would say there are no "right" gods.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76507967


Perhaps "God," rightly considered, is that thing we consider the most important in our existence? For those that I consider true Christians, that is the Spirit of Truth (which you deny exists) and Love, and Justice.

An interesting aside, is--"Is God a production of evolved intelligent Life?" The idea of an Egregore--an entity of intention created by the will of conscious living (or "passed" Living) beings--that is capable of action on the plane of existence--would make the conception of a living (awake to the here and now existence of everyone) God possible. Such a God would not necessarily be incompatible with the God of Christ.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


It would also not be incompatible with the god in islam, or the hindi gods pantheon or even budhism as a whole.
 Quoting: MarPep

That is true.
In that case, there would likely be more than 1 God. Would there be more than 1 Satan?

Or would there be One God of Truth, Love, and Justice and a host of false Gods?

Heaven would be union of the spirit with God, Hell would be exclusion from the presences in/of that God.

Last Edited by MarPep on 06/26/2018 10:20 PM
_______________
They let me off with a warning and a couple of bullet holes.

Day after day, alone on a hill--
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2018 10:00 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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Agreed. Unfortunately, this is not the case in the vast majority. Religion, sits on many pillars or combinations of these:
Control people
Fulfill greedy wills
Dominate over the most people as possible

They can be summarized in "power hunger". The strategies used are "bully-ish" level. They dominate over people either by fear, guilt or greed, if not by combinations of these. The common folk is usually unable to distinguish the logical fallacies implied, so they buy into the lie without hesitance.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU

Organized Christian religions sometimes do this, although they would not find grounds to do so in the teachings of Christ. Judaism and Islam are profoundly supremacist religions (even worse with the atheistic Judaism). The Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule show how a true Christian should respond to others.

Religions which impose the necessity of control or domination of others should be considered ideologies, not true religion--at least in my mind's eye.
 Quoting: MarPep


I might be mistaken, but one of the very basic principles of christianity is to spread the word so everyone would know Christ. That only in Christ can mankind be good. This also sounds supremacist to me.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Spreading "the Word" of Truth so that others may profit in their lives is essentially the opposite of the supremacism of Judaism and Islam.
 Quoting: MarPep


At least until you get to the part where you insist that your word is the only true word and that there are no other ways to that truth. That's sounds pretty darn supremacist right there.
Petrus

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06/26/2018 10:00 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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Well if you won't let Christ (God) recreate your heart, then continue being evil. No one is forcing you to believe.
 Quoting: Petrus


Lets face it this way: I point a loaded and cocked gun to your head and ask: "Give me your money or I'll shoot. Its your choice". Is it really a choice? Will it be suicide if you don't give me the money and I shoot? What if I decide that its not enough money in case you give me and shoot anyway?

Its the same thing with mafia. You run your business fine, I'll "protect you" from myself. Just give me money every month and I won't break your legs. Its your choice. Is it really a choice?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Let's face it this way.....
Your sin is weighing you down and at the end of your life you slip into outer darkness because you would not repent (turn away form your sinning) and turn your life over to God's control while He had His oustretched hand toward you.... Who's fault is it if you did not willing receive that RESCUE? Is it not because you choose to hang on to sin?
 Quoting: Petrus


Sin, god, salvation... all these according to who?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Sin is the reason we age and die. You have much to learn, friend.
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

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06/26/2018 10:01 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people

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Perhaps "God," rightly considered, is that thing we consider the most important in our existence? For those that I consider true Christians, that is the Spirit of Truth (which you deny exists) and Love, and Justice.

An interesting aside, is--"Is God a production of evolved intelligent Life?" The idea of an Egregore--an entity of intention created by the will of conscious living (or "passed" Living) beings--that is capable of action on the plane of existence--would make the conception of a living (awake to the here and now existence of everyone) God possible. Such a God would not necessarily be incompatible with the God of Christ.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


It would also not be incompatible with the god in islam, or the hindi gods pantheon or even budhism as a whole.
 Quoting: MarPep

That is true.
In that case, there would likely be more than 1 God. Would there be more than 1 Satan?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Or none whatsoever?
MaybeTrollingU  (OP)

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06/26/2018 10:02 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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Lets face it this way: I point a loaded and cocked gun to your head and ask: "Give me your money or I'll shoot. Its your choice". Is it really a choice? Will it be suicide if you don't give me the money and I shoot? What if I decide that its not enough money in case you give me and shoot anyway?

Its the same thing with mafia. You run your business fine, I'll "protect you" from myself. Just give me money every month and I won't break your legs. Its your choice. Is it really a choice?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Let's face it this way.....
Your sin is weighing you down and at the end of your life you slip into outer darkness because you would not repent (turn away form your sinning) and turn your life over to God's control while He had His oustretched hand toward you.... Who's fault is it if you did not willing receive that RESCUE? Is it not because you choose to hang on to sin?
 Quoting: Petrus


Sin, god, salvation... all these according to who?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Sin is the reason we age and die. You have much to learn, friend.
 Quoting: Petrus


Cell aging is the reason we age and die. Biology explains it perfectly well and proves it in a plethora of different ways.
MarPep

User ID: 76711952
United States
06/26/2018 10:08 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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Organized Christian religions sometimes do this, although they would not find grounds to do so in the teachings of Christ. Judaism and Islam are profoundly supremacist religions (even worse with the atheistic Judaism). The Sermon on the Mount and the Golden Rule show how a true Christian should respond to others.

Religions which impose the necessity of control or domination of others should be considered ideologies, not true religion--at least in my mind's eye.
 Quoting: MarPep


I might be mistaken, but one of the very basic principles of christianity is to spread the word so everyone would know Christ. That only in Christ can mankind be good. This also sounds supremacist to me.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Spreading "the Word" of Truth so that others may profit in their lives is essentially the opposite of the supremacism of Judaism and Islam.
 Quoting: MarPep


At least until you get to the part where you insist that your word is the only true word and that there are no other ways to that truth. That's sounds pretty darn supremacist right there.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11375876


Confidence in sharing one's idea of Truth is not the same as the physicial and monetary domination by/of Judaism and Islam. Catholicism has practiced domination of Protestants and non-catholic Christians, as well as Jewish--and did fight battles with militant Islam for control of land. But Catholicism is different than Christianity by many standards.

Last Edited by MarPep on 06/26/2018 10:18 PM
_______________
They let me off with a warning and a couple of bullet holes.

Day after day, alone on a hill--
MarPep

User ID: 76711952
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06/26/2018 10:11 PM

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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people
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Lets face it this way: I point a loaded and cocked gun to your head and ask: "Give me your money or I'll shoot. Its your choice". Is it really a choice? Will it be suicide if you don't give me the money and I shoot? What if I decide that its not enough money in case you give me and shoot anyway?

Its the same thing with mafia. You run your business fine, I'll "protect you" from myself. Just give me money every month and I won't break your legs. Its your choice. Is it really a choice?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Let's face it this way.....
Your sin is weighing you down and at the end of your life you slip into outer darkness because you would not repent (turn away form your sinning) and turn your life over to God's control while He had His oustretched hand toward you.... Who's fault is it if you did not willing receive that RESCUE? Is it not because you choose to hang on to sin?
 Quoting: Petrus


Sin, god, salvation... all these according to who?
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingU


Sin is the reason we age and die. You have much to learn, friend.
 Quoting: Petrus

Sinless infants die.
Sins are those drives that lead to death, rather than Life.

Last Edited by MarPep on 06/26/2018 10:11 PM
_______________
They let me off with a warning and a couple of bullet holes.

Day after day, alone on a hill--
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 69639287
United States
06/26/2018 10:16 PM
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Re: Friendly discussion and thought exercise to religious people

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Maybe the idea of "a" God being the "right" one is the start of all the problems.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11375876


So there could be multiple "right" gods? I mean we come from somewhere and yet the Bible and any other religious text were all written by humans and probably also translated/mistranslated numerous times so they're going to be flawed.

Maybe the better way to put it is what is spiritual truth?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76426692


I for one, would say there are no "right" gods.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76507967


Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,





GLP