Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 2,076 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 981,685
Pageviews Today: 1,828,221Threads Today: 883Posts Today: 15,944
08:13 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews

 
DPS7

User ID: 29197516
Israel
01/29/2019 01:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
...


So you dont accept the term "Judiazing" but you do accept the term "Judiazing in the name of jesus"
 Quoting: DPS7


Not actually certain what you mean here. I'm in no way engaged in becoming Jewish.

But, to hopefully clarify the issue, the original faith that Yah instructed the Israelites in through Moses was not Judaism. That came about latter. The word "Jew" is first mentioned in Second Kings, I believe. It's not in Torah. Israelite doesn't mean Jew. I know a lot of people that conflate Judah with Israel, but they aren't one and the same. Some of Judah are indeed Israel though.
 Quoting: Fluffy Pancakes


When Paul used the term "Judiazers" he meant people who study and practice the OT.

You babbeling about some irrelevant nonsense about Judaism is what G-d instructed or not doesnt do away with it.

Its funny you pretend to not understand what I mean because you are ashamed of your Judiazing.

Dont be ashamed, Judiazing is great, one of its very very positive side effects is that it leads out of christianity.
 Quoting: DPS7


Wow. Paul was addressing people who adhere to the teachings and doctrines of the Rabbis that are not purely Torah. Like you can't carry or blow a shofar on Shabbat, for example.

I'm pretty sure that when Yeshua said to not call any man "father" or "rabbi" that He knew Paul was going to cause all the issues that happened because people who don't know anything twist up what Paul says and make doctrine from it that apparently contradicts Yeshua and Torah.

Anyway, you can think what you like, DPS7. But nothing will pull me from Yeshua. And I am not ashamed of that.

The original faith was called The Way. Greek believers created the term Christian, and since I am not Greek, I no longer hold to that term. But I am indeed a follower of Yeshua. Not Paul. But I don't think people shouldn't read Paul, nor should they ignore Paul. But if Paul appears to contradict Yeshua, best to go with Yeshua. Cause Paul isn't the way, the truth and the life.
 Quoting: Fluffy Pancakes


Keep on that path.
It will lead to a crossroads with a sign that says "But if jesus appears to contradict G-d and his prophets in the OT, better go with G-d and his prophets in the OT"
Fluffy Pancakes

User ID: 77244200
United States
01/29/2019 01:32 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Yeshua in no way contradicts YHVH or the Prophets.

Your argument is that He contradicts the Traditions of the Rabbis. And Paul seems to contradict Torah, but Christianity, largely, teaches a misunderstanding of Paul's writings as trumping what Yeshua is recorded to have taught.

So, I'm not moving from Yeshua, DPS7. I've experienced too much that is well beyond hashing out on the internet.
Things are bad enough, there is no need to make anything up. ~Fluffy

"Never interrupt an enemy in the process of destroying himself."

Quercitin and zinc...Get it. Take it.

Visit howbad.info...If you took the shot, for sure.
DPS7

User ID: 29197516
Israel
01/29/2019 01:33 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Yeshua in no way contradicts YHVH or the Prophets.

Your argument is that He contradicts the Traditions of the Rabbis. And Paul seems to contradict Torah, but Christianity, largely, teaches a misunderstanding of Paul's writings as trumping what Yeshua is recorded to have taught.

So, I'm not moving from Yeshua, DPS7. I've experienced too much that is well beyond hashing out on the internet.
 Quoting: Fluffy Pancakes


Just keep going on that path.

I like how you noticed that once you thought Paul was legit.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75350810
United States
03/28/2019 09:08 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Nehemia Gordon is a Hebrew language scholar.

[link to www.nehemiaswall.com (secure)]

[link to www.jewage.org]

He's found several manuscripts written in Hebrew that clear up various probelems that occur becuase of Greek translational errors.

Some from Orthodox churches in Russia, one of which was done by Shem Tov around 1390.

Another from the British Museum.

Still more from the Vatican Library. These had never been cataloged before as no one in the Vatican read ancient Hebrew.

Here's a page (+ video) about his first Vatican finds.

[link to www.nehemiaswall.com (secure)]

This 1/2 hour video covers the "13 generations" problem seen in the Greek translations of Matthew

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Thank you for linking this to another thread this morning. I'll check it out after work tonight. God bless you.
TheLordsServant  (OP)

User ID: 77734765
United States
06/16/2019 11:34 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Video is 1 hour 30 mins

PDF of translation

[link to audio.nehemiaswall.com (secure)]

View the Hebrew document at the British Library

[link to www.bl.uk]


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 69833814
United States
01/27/2020 05:09 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]


Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78584162
United States
03/08/2020 10:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
2 hours 3 mins


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 78584162
United States
03/09/2020 12:20 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

OMG thats a known translation NOT LONG ago, from greek TO Hebrew.
J^e&w$s for jesus give these away for free.
hahahahahahahaha

There is no Hebrew gospels, you are being lied to!
 Quoting: DPS7

So I guess that you would call the early "church fathers" as "liars" - as they said Matthew was originally written in Hebrew?

1. The Testimony of Papias (100-120 AD)
2. The Testimony of Pantaenus (d.c.200 AD)
3. The Testimony of Epiphanius (c.320- 403AD)
4. The Testimony of Augustine (354AD-430AD)
5. The Testimony of Jerome (342-420 AD)

That comes from this webpage - where there is more info.

[link to hebrewgospel.com]

This is the first page of a "series".

[link to hebrewgospel.com]

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 03/09/2020 12:21 AM
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78970656
United States
05/30/2020 07:02 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
This 31 min video looks at taking Greek manuscripts and translating into Hebrew - and he gives a few examples that help explain difficult things that Jesus said.


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 79567891
United States
10/31/2020 08:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Shem Tov Gospel "Pearls" series - Nehemia Gordon and Keith Johnson.
Episodes 1 - 9. They range in length from 42 mins to 1 hour 23 mins.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]




Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 10/31/2020 09:05 PM
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 79567891
United States
10/31/2020 09:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Keith Johnson's website with episodes and access to more premium content.

[link to bfainternational.com (secure)]

Nehemia Gordon's website with similar.

[link to www.nehemiaswall.com (secure)]

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 10/31/2020 09:12 PM
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79695527
United States
11/28/2020 04:21 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Go to the 15 minute mark for the actual start.


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]


Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 79695527
United States
11/28/2020 08:22 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Starts at about the 15 minute mark.


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]




I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 79728158
United States
12/05/2020 08:02 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Next vid of the series.

Starts at about the 15 minute mark.


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]




I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 79784025
United States
12/19/2020 08:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Next vid of the series.

Starts at about the 12:30 minute mark.


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]




I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78137077
12/19/2020 10:56 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Weren't these "Scriptures" read in the original language ?

Synagogues as Assembly Places. While the ___were exiles in Babylon, or shortly thereafter, synagogues, or buildings that were places of assembly, came into use. Eventually these were established in various places, large cities having more than one. Primarily, synagogues were schools where the Scriptures were read and taught. They were also places of prayer and for the giving of praise to God. It was customary for Jesus Christ and his disciples to go to them to instruct and encourage persons present. (Mt 4:23; Lu 4:16; Ac 13:14, 15; 17:1, 2; 18:4) Because the Scriptures were regularly read in the synagogues, James was able to say to the Christian governing body in Jerusalem: “From ancient times Moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.” (Ac 15:21) The basic features of worship in the synagogue were carried over into Christian assembly places, where Scripture reading and exposition, encouragement, prayer, and the giving of praise were to be found.—1Co 14:26-33, 40; Col 4:16;
Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 79930837
United States
01/16/2021 11:49 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Here's parts 10, 11 and 12.


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79234724
United States
01/16/2021 12:10 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Shem Tov wrote a book, The Touchstone, arguing against the both the divinity of Christ and that He was the Messiah.

Just sayin’...
Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 79930837
United States
01/16/2021 12:50 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Shem Tov wrote a book, The Touchstone, arguing against the both the divinity of Christ and that He was the Messiah.

Just sayin’...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79234724


Does that invalidate his translation of Matthew?

I seriously doubt that.

And it's clear that the early church "fathers" KNEW that Matthew had been originally written in the "native" language.

The "H" word isn't allowed anymore on GLP.

verysad
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79234724
United States
01/16/2021 01:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Shem Tov wrote a book, The Touchstone, arguing against the both the divinity of Christ and that He was the Messiah.

Just sayin’...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79234724


Does that invalidate his translation of Matthew?
(snip)
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


In my opinion, it certainly does... but you do you.
Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 79930837
United States
01/17/2021 12:53 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Shem Tov wrote a book, The Touchstone, arguing against the both the divinity of Christ and that He was the Messiah.

Just sayin’...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79234724


Does that invalidate his translation of Matthew?
(snip)
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


In my opinion, it certainly does... but you do you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79234724


Catholics of the times were challenging
J's to debate - so Shem Tov needed to
know what the New Testament said.
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79966292
United States
01/22/2021 09:55 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]


Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 70620226
United States
08/01/2021 11:13 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Thread: Dr. Al Garza Claims There Are Over 4000 New Testament Manuscripts in the Hebrews Language
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 80775195
United States
08/21/2021 11:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Why study the Hebrews language.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]




I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 80775195
United States
08/22/2021 12:10 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Nehemia Gordon on Hebrews Matthew and the Lord's Prayer


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]




I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD  (OP)

User ID: 2474265
United States
09/08/2022 05:16 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Ehbrew Origins of the Book of Matthew

While there are many textual evidences to show that the book of Matthew was originally written in ehbrew, Matthew 5:3 is a good example of this.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
The Greek word for "poor" is ptochos and means one who is destitute, afflicted, and lacking. What this verse is literally saying is "Blessed are the ones destitute/afflicted/lacking in the spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." This does not make any sense. However, if we translate the Greek word ptochos into ehbrew we have the word aniy which also means destitute, afflicted and lacking. More literally the ehbrew word aniy means "bent down low" such as a poor person who is destitute. But this ehbrew word can also mean one who is humble, in the same sense of bending down low.

Now, if we translate the ehbrew back into English we have, "Blessed are the humble in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." By understanding this passage from its ehbrew background, we are able to better interpret the New Testament Bible.

Another proof for an original Matthew is the overwhelming number of church fathers who had stated that the book of Matthew was originally written in ehbrew.

Papias (150-170 CE) - Matthew composed the words in the ehbrew dialect, and each translated as he was able. [A quote by Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 3:39]

Ireneus (170 CE) - Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the ehbrews in their own dialect. [Against Heresies 3:1]

Origen (210 CE) - The first [Gospel] is written according to Matthew, the same that was once a tax collector, but afterwards an apostle of YAHshua Christ who having published it for the ehbrew believers, wrote it in ehbrew. [A quote by Eusebius; Eccl. Hist. 6:25]

Eusebius (315 CE) - Matthew also, having first proclaimed the Gospel in ehbrew, when on the point of going also to the other nations, committed it to writing in his native tongue, and thus supplied the want of his presence to them by his writings. [Eccl. Hist. 3:24]

Epiphanius (370 CE) - They [The Nazarenes] have the Gospel according to Matthew quite complete in ehbrew, for this Gospel is certainly still preserved among them as it was first written, in ehbrew letters. [Panarion 29:9:4]

Jerome ( 382 CE) - Matthew, who is also Levi, and from a tax collectore came to be an Apostle first of all evangelists composed a Gospel of Christ in Judea in the ehbrew language and letters, for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed, who translated it into Greek is not sufficiently ascertained. Furthermore, the ehbrew itself is preserved to this day in the library at Caesarea, which the martyr Pamphilus so diligently collected. I also was allowed by the Nazarenes who use this volume in the Syrian city of Borea to copy it. In which is to be remarked that, wherever the evangelist.... makes use of the testimonies of the Old Scripture, he does not follow the authority of the seventy translators, but that of the ehbrew. [Lives of Illustrious Men, Book 5]

Isho'dad (850 CE) - His [Matthew's] book was in existence in Caesarea of Palestine, and everyone acknowledges that he wrote it with his hands in ehbrew. [Isho'dad Commentary on the Gospels]
 Quoting: FHL(C)

I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83072218
United States
09/08/2022 05:27 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Where's your Matthew?... Matthew?

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84651837
United States
11/06/2022 01:09 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Hebrews Matthew Manuscripts Clear Up Greek Translation Problems - Early Church Fathers Said Matthew was in Hebrews
Interview with Dr. Miles Jones concerning the Gospels in the Hebrews language.

Actually starts at about the 13:30 timestamp (first link below).

[link to youtu.be (secure)]


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]







GLP