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Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States

 
Lacey Underall

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03/31/2019 06:51 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
i have heard thorium is pretty safe.
 Quoting: CAT SAVER


Thorium reactors are a lot safer especially in emergency shutdown mode.

However, they produce Uranium 233, which can be used to make atomic bombs easier than U238.
Roboto

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03/31/2019 06:54 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
Ha, ha. The land area of the entire United States is 3,531,905 square miles.

I'm sure 100 square miles would be enough. Have all of you lost your common sense?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40127480


For those interested, here's the simple math:

100 miles x 100 miles = 10,000 square miles

1 mile = 5280 ft

10,000 square mile = 5,280 x 5,280 sq ft = 27,878,400 sq ft

----

One of the posters above has a 240W solar panel, probably like this one:

[link to www.gogreensolar.com (secure)]

so, he gets:

240 W / (65in x 39in) = 240 W / 2,535 sq in. = 240W / 17.6 sq. ft
240 W / 17.6 sq. ft = 13.6 W/sq. ft.

-----

The total max power that can be generated from 10,000 square miles of these panels is:

13.6W/sq.ft x 27,848,400 sq. ft. = 379,661,027 W ~= 380 MW

-----

The total energy produced from this many panels over 24hrs is:

380MW x 24hrs = 9,112 MWhrs = 9.1 GWhrs

and the total over 1 year is:

9.1GWhrs x 365 days/yr = 3326 GWhrs

----

How much electricity is used in the US annually?

[link to www.eia.gov (secure)]

-----

So, a 10,000 sq mile solar farm with this model solar panel can supply:

3326 GWhrs / 10.4MWhrs per household = 319, 791 households

-----

How many households are in the US?

[link to www.statista.com (secure)]

----

So, the OP's proposed solar farm can power at best:

319,791 / 127,590,000 = 0.25% of US households

Sorry, fail, interesting calculation though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61625577


hesright

Thanks for the real math.
Remedial_Rebel

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03/31/2019 06:56 PM

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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
Can any body tell me, what happened to Fusion power.

This was a big thing in the 80's and 90's. I read in 1996 research labs had achieved break even. Then most news died out. I know I can google it, but there's little if any news of real development. Squashed by fossil fuel and nuclear interests?
 Quoting: Remedial_Rebel


It takes more energy to contain the fusion (that is, to prevent it from becoming a bomb) than the energy that is gained from the fusion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77347008


That was true for Tokamak reactors in the 80's. But since then, Laser confinement approach at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory has supposed to been making progress. As 2014, again are stating break even.

[link to www.scientificamerican.com (secure)]

WTF?

Last Edited by Remedial_Rebel on 03/31/2019 06:56 PM
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 07:00 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
At $30 per square foot.


Cost is in the trillions just in material.

And has to be replaced every 15 years.

Translation:

Can you afford a $2000 a month , when Americans cant afford it , it's too damn expensive.

Let me know when you get the cost below $2 a square foot.


BTW , most solar cells require more energy to be produced than they will generate over the course of their lives.

At least you posted your ideas about solar power on the right kind of web site.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 07:18 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
100X100=100 square miles. Lets do it!smile_kiss
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5656520


= 10,000 square miles
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 07:23 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
Can any body tell me, what happened to Fusion power.

This was a big thing in the 80's and 90's. I read in 1996 research labs had achieved break even. Then most news died out. I know I can google it, but there's little if any news of real development. Squashed by fossil fuel and nuclear interests?
 Quoting: Remedial_Rebel


It takes more energy to contain the fusion (that is, to prevent it from becoming a bomb) than the energy that is gained from the fusion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77347008


That was true for Tokamak reactors in the 80's. But since then, Laser confinement approach at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory has supposed to been making progress. As 2014, again are stating break even.

[link to www.scientificamerican.com (secure)]

WTF?
 Quoting: Remedial_Rebel


That article describes a very expensive little confined bomb that is under control for a small fraction of a second.

Not very promising.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 07:29 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
You shouldn't centralise a power grid like that. Many downsides. Not least would be energy loss over the thousands of miles, long distance transmission, and terrorist or natural disasters on the plant.
Yea, over all its a dumb idea to implement it. The smart way is to decentralise and everyone have solar roof tiles plus battery walls.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29794866


Libtards love centralized power. If they had their way the US would be governed by a king or emperor.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 07:33 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
“If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah; you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,”

“The batteries you need to store the energy, so you have 24/7 power, is 1 mile by 1 mile. One square-mile.”

It’s “a little square on the U.S. map, and then there’s a little pixel inside there, and that’s the size of the battery park that you need to support that. Real tiny.”

[link to www.inverse.com (secure)]

If this were spread over the United States connected by a power grid sounds doable and not very intrusive, the panels also being on top of building roofs.. What we waiting for?
 Quoting: norakat147


Welp, one thing for sure. The Interior Depart isn't gonna like this idea.

Thread: DRAIN THE SWAMP: Trump nominates ex big oil lobbtyist and Bush advisor as Interior Secretary
914

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03/31/2019 07:40 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
100X100=100 square miles. Lets do it!smile_kiss
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5656520


10,000 square miles.
 Quoting: Copperhead


How big an area is 10,00 square miles? Example is Nevada.

[link to lasvegassun.com (secure)]
DEDEDEDE
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 07:44 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
Is this for real? Or just an unproven claim?
scimitar

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03/31/2019 07:47 PM

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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
“If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah; you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,”

“The batteries you need to store the energy, so you have 24/7 power, is 1 mile by 1 mile. One square-mile.”

It’s “a little square on the U.S. map, and then there’s a little pixel inside there, and that’s the size of the battery park that you need to support that. Real tiny.”

[link to www.inverse.com (secure)]

If this were spread over the United States connected by a power grid sounds doable and not very intrusive, the panels also being on top of building roofs.. What we waiting for?
 Quoting: norakat147


Someone has certainly already pointed out that it is not 100 square miles but 10,000.
Ominous regressions
One Truth... many realities
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 07:50 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
The real reason this is NOT being done is because it is goes against the one thing propping up American deficit spending: Petro-Dollar Hegemony.

I'm all for sustaining the global economy, but catastrophic ecological collapse is far worse for the longevity of our species. We must transition quickly. Even China knows this. Not only from an environmental level but from an economic one. We are far too reliant on antiquated and inefficient forms of energy--to truly MAGA, we need to lead, not follow or drag our heels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73502758


Did you catch the part about it costing 10+ trillion dollars? That's another good reason.

A few other people here have verified my numbers on that.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 07:51 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
Ok do 25 square miles and see if it works . If it does 25% would be a huge addition to our energy supply. 10,000 square miles of panels would cost a fortune and would be a major vulnerability. Then build a couple more in separate sites.
Revo/elation

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03/31/2019 07:52 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
“If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah; you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,”

“The batteries you need to store the energy, so you have 24/7 power, is 1 mile by 1 mile. One square-mile.”

It’s “a little square on the U.S. map, and then there’s a little pixel inside there, and that’s the size of the battery park that you need to support that. Real tiny.”

[link to www.inverse.com (secure)]

If this were spread over the United States connected by a power grid sounds doable and not very intrusive, the panels also being on top of building roofs.. What we waiting for?
 Quoting: norakat147


If you just multiply the amount of energy that can be stored to batteries with that total area (which I don't believe is correct) to how much total energy is used then "maybe"...
But is that how the actual infrastructure works? Can that power be routed 2000 miles away on the east coast at nightfall? Or route power to where it's needed in heat waves? Of course not. Therefore it would have to be localized. Every would need solar panels from their own, mimimally dependent on the grid. Which would need to be completely remodeled. Now we're talking about cost that dwarfs our current ROAD infrastructure needs. Litterally Trillions.

So they have us locked in coal dependent and nuclear power for now. We have a long way to go. We're doing triage right now just to get certain people a fair trial and not be unseated by C_A plants. Not to mention the judicial. So, for right now we're just trying to make sure we don't become a third world country with illegals coming in, and a grid hanging by a thread. This will be great to do if we can someday.

Last Edited by Revo/elation on 03/31/2019 07:52 PM
hillbilly

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03/31/2019 07:55 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
Squashed by fossil fuel and nuclear interests?
 Quoting: Remedial_Rebel
The weaponized versions of Tesla tech are far more profitable for The Tribe.

Last Edited by hillbilly on 03/31/2019 07:55 PM
Water is the only drink for a wise man.
Call me a pot but heat me not.-Putin
Silence is where God speaks. Anything else is but a poor translation. -Rumi
Wanna hear God laugh? Just talk about your plans.
An old broom knows all the corners.
Slow is steady; steady is smooth; smooth is fast.
Success has a thousand fathers but failure only one son.
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.-Gibran
Pooka

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03/31/2019 08:15 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
Hydro power is the chepest, cleaniest more renewable power in the United States.
"Hydropower is the most efficient way to generate electricity. Modern hydro turbines can convert as much as 90% of the available energy into electricity. The best fossil fuel plants are only about 50% efficient. (1)

In the U.S., hydropower is produced for an average of 0.85 cents per kilowatt-hour (kwh). This is about 50% the cost of nuclear, 40% the cost of fossil fuel, and 25% the cost of using natural gas."
[link to www.wvic.com]

You will see that the production cost of hydro power is a fraction the cost of any other power.

As for fish:

Environmental interests refuse to look at reasons for salmon population decrease other than the dams.

The Nez Perce Indian Hatchery bred salmon years ago that had great resistance to the stress of the Columbia River dams, but they were not allowed to release them.


Living in the Northwest, you are unaware of how cheap energy is for us here. Look at a national graph for energy costs and you will see,

Hydro produces enough energy to sell throughout the country, is non polluting and the ultimate renewable resource.

Hydro provides irrigation for close to 300 crops, which include apples, 70% of the nation's applrcrops.

If you are worried about the increase in the cost of food, why would you want to take out one of the nation's most productive agricultural regions?
 Quoting: Lily o' the Valley


Why were they not allowed to release them? This could be such a huge solution - maybe our whale pods would not be dying now! Progress stopped for meaningless cause makes me nuts!!!
Prayer is the most powerful force on earth.

“I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.” Abraham Lincoln

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Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 08:16 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
I'd guess its currently in the process of being done as we speak no?
Pooka

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03/31/2019 08:17 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
Forget zero point energy. It is free.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49995199


Well, keep wishing. I think it is being supressed
 Quoting: Lily o' the Valley


So do I. And will be for the foreseeable future. Same as cures for cancer - can't have that - no more money for the anti-cancer drugs in the billions every year. What if we weren't paying for power any more? So many would be out the billions they "earn" for providing power to us.
Prayer is the most powerful force on earth.

“I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.” Abraham Lincoln

I sign all karma given. Would that those giving it to me followed suit.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 08:26 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
could put Nellis range to use with hmm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73022656


That was exactly my first thought.

More generally, there is absolutely no excuse for not using solar panels, for not putting them on all new builds.

The only reason why not is the utility companies huge lost profits.

(I don't buy the 'easy to take out a solar power system'. we have the technology to protect/safeguard and back up with at least barebones systems)
hillbilly

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03/31/2019 08:32 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
TVA invested in multiple dams here for flood control
and cheap hydro electric, that's not so cheap anymore.
They also operate several nuclear plants and steam plants.

They were building the Clinch River Breeder Reactor
when it was cancelled in 1983 as "unnecessary."
It would have recycled the spent fuel, "closing the loop."
Instead they had to spend extra on storage and disposal.

I live about 500 feet from power lines that run from one of the dams to Oak Ridge.
They processed uranium for the Madhatter Project.
The uranium storage facility there was in the news a few years back
when protesters entered and spray-painted the buildings.
The Materials Lab also works with crystal tech and lithium batteries, among other things, that are classified.
Water is the only drink for a wise man.
Call me a pot but heat me not.-Putin
Silence is where God speaks. Anything else is but a poor translation. -Rumi
Wanna hear God laugh? Just talk about your plans.
An old broom knows all the corners.
Slow is steady; steady is smooth; smooth is fast.
Success has a thousand fathers but failure only one son.
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.-Gibran
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 08:36 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
“If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah; you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,”

“The batteries you need to store the energy, so you have 24/7 power, is 1 mile by 1 mile. One square-mile.”

It’s “a little square on the U.S. map, and then there’s a little pixel inside there, and that’s the size of the battery park that you need to support that. Real tiny.”

[link to www.inverse.com (secure)]

If this were spread over the United States connected by a power grid sounds doable and not very intrusive, the panels also being on top of building roofs.. What we waiting for?
 Quoting: norakat147


Sorry to disappoint you, but your owners will make sure it never happens.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 08:37 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
“If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah; you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,”

“The batteries you need to store the energy, so you have 24/7 power, is 1 mile by 1 mile. One square-mile.”

It’s “a little square on the U.S. map, and then there’s a little pixel inside there, and that’s the size of the battery park that you need to support that. Real tiny.”

[link to www.inverse.com (secure)]

If this were spread over the United States connected by a power grid sounds doable and not very intrusive, the panels also being on top of building roofs.. What we waiting for?
 Quoting: norakat147


Sorry to disappoint you, but your owners will make sure it never happens.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 08:40 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
“If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah; you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,”

“The batteries you need to store the energy, so you have 24/7 power, is 1 mile by 1 mile. One square-mile.”

It’s “a little square on the U.S. map, and then there’s a little pixel inside there, and that’s the size of the battery park that you need to support that. Real tiny.”

[link to www.inverse.com (secure)]

If this were spread over the United States connected by a power grid sounds doable and not very intrusive, the panels also being on top of building roofs.. What we waiting for?
 Quoting: norakat147


Someone has certainly already pointed out that it is not 100 square miles but 10,000.
 Quoting: scimitar


lolsign That's exactly what OP said.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2019 08:42 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
“If you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels, it would take a fairly small corner of Nevada or Texas or Utah; you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels to power the entire United States,”

“The batteries you need to store the energy, so you have 24/7 power, is 1 mile by 1 mile. One square-mile.”

It’s “a little square on the U.S. map, and then there’s a little pixel inside there, and that’s the size of the battery park that you need to support that. Real tiny.”

[link to www.inverse.com (secure)]

If this were spread over the United States connected by a power grid sounds doable and not very intrusive, the panels also being on top of building roofs.. What we waiting for?
 Quoting: norakat147


Someone has certainly already pointed out that it is not 100 square miles but 10,000.
 Quoting: scimitar


lolsign That's exactly what OP said.
 Quoting: TSPNS


Just title of the post is a bit misleading.
Interferon

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03/31/2019 08:49 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
And when those solar panels and batteries wear out in 10 years, and need to be replaced with another 100 sq miles of panels where are we going to dump the 100 sq miles of toxic materials?

Solar energy is is inefficient..
 Quoting: Lacey Underall


Their lifespan is generally set at 35 years. And they don't die at that point, they are just down to around 80% of original output. So add a bit more each year to compensate.

BTW, solar is the cheapest form of energy right now. Around 30 cents a watt.

The problem is storing it when the sun is down.
Interferon

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03/31/2019 08:55 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
Ha, ha. The land area of the entire United States is 3,531,905 square miles.

I'm sure 100 square miles would be enough. Have all of you lost your common sense?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40127480


For those interested, here's the simple math:

100 miles x 100 miles = 10,000 square miles

1 mile = 5280 ft

10,000 square mile = 5,280 x 5,280 sq ft = 27,878,400 sq ft

----

One of the posters above has a 240W solar panel, probably like this one:

[link to www.gogreensolar.com (secure)]

so, he gets:

240 W / (65in x 39in) = 240 W / 2,535 sq in. = 240W / 17.6 sq. ft
240 W / 17.6 sq. ft = 13.6 W/sq. ft.

-----

The total max power that can be generated from 10,000 square miles of these panels is:

13.6W/sq.ft x 27,848,400 sq. ft. = 379,661,027 W ~= 380 MW

-----

The total energy produced from this many panels over 24hrs is:

380MW x 24hrs = 9,112 MWhrs = 9.1 GWhrs

and the total over 1 year is:

9.1GWhrs x 365 days/yr = 3326 GWhrs

----

How much electricity is used in the US annually?

[link to www.eia.gov (secure)]

-----

So, a 10,000 sq mile solar farm with this model solar panel can supply:

3326 GWhrs / 10.4MWhrs per household = 319, 791 households

-----

How many households are in the US?

[link to www.statista.com (secure)]

----

So, the OP's proposed solar farm can power at best:

319,791 / 127,590,000 = 0.25% of US households

Sorry, fail, interesting calculation though.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61625577

You forgot to multiply 27,878,400 by 10,000.
All your calculations are for 1 square mile, not 10,000.

Try again.
Lily o' the Valley

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03/31/2019 08:55 PM

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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
You shouldn't centralise a power grid like that. Many downsides. Not least would be energy loss over the thousands of miles, long distance transmission, and terrorist or natural disasters on the plant.
Yea, over all its a dumb idea to implement it. The smart way is to decentralise and everyone have solar roof tiles plus battery walls.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29794866


I really do not like the idea of these huge projects either. More and more they tend to be redistribution of wealth from the taxpayer to the friends of the politicians. If all costs - environmental, administration, development, construction, staffing, maintenance, and replacement - are taken into consideration, they have too often been terribly expensive.

Look at Solyndra, a much hyped solar project:
"Solyndra misled government to get $535M solar project loan: report

Solyndra, the solar panel manufacturer who took more than $500 million from President Obama’s stimulus then went bust, sticking taxpayers for the loss, lied to federal officials to secure the loan, the Energy Department’s inspector general said in a report released Wednesday."
[link to www.washingtontimes.com (secure)]

Much better to pay individual households or companies to install their own solar for their own homes, or to make block grants to towns and cities to develop small local programs.
*** Good deeds bring rewards, bad actions bring troubles. That is a law of the universe. ***
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
all these morons have been taught 'solar power bad' by knuckle dragger neocons who can easy command their gerbil minds, and make it infantile logic AGAINST what the intelligent people understand as obvious and not even debatable.

this could all be done with what they spend on military gas masks fer christ sakes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77517351


Actually the morons are the ones believing that solar is the solution to all of our problems.

At this time green energy is just not a good alternative to oil and gas and will not be until it makes sense to switch to green power. And in order for it to make sense solar cells need to be more efficient than they are now and much cheaper in order to compete with oil and gas. Also battery tech needs to be cheaper and to be able to store way more power than lithium batteries currently do.

But I believe that the most promising source of endless power in the future will be in about 10 years if we can perfect nuclear fusion.
Interferon

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03/31/2019 09:02 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
You shouldn't centralise a power grid like that. Many downsides. Not least would be energy loss over the thousands of miles, long distance transmission, and terrorist or natural disasters on the plant.
Yea, over all its a dumb idea to implement it. The smart way is to decentralise and everyone have solar roof tiles plus battery walls.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29794866


I really do not like the idea of these huge projects either. More and more they tend to be redistribution of wealth from the taxpayer to the friends of the politicians. If all costs - environmental, administration, development, construction, staffing, maintenance, and replacement - are taken into consideration, they have too often been terribly expensive.

Look at Solyndra, a much hyped solar project:
"Solyndra misled government to get $535M solar project loan: report

Solyndra, the solar panel manufacturer who took more than $500 million from President Obama’s stimulus then went bust, sticking taxpayers for the loss, lied to federal officials to secure the loan, the Energy Department’s inspector general said in a report released Wednesday."
[link to www.washingtontimes.com (secure)]

Much better to pay individual households or companies to install their own solar for their own homes, or to make block grants to towns and cities to develop small local programs.
 Quoting: Lily o' the Valley

Or just let people decide on their own to spend their own money on rooftop solar.

Which is already happening, by the way.
Interferon

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03/31/2019 09:03 PM
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Re: Only 100 square miles of solar panels are required to power the entire United States
all these morons have been taught 'solar power bad' by knuckle dragger neocons who can easy command their gerbil minds, and make it infantile logic AGAINST what the intelligent people understand as obvious and not even debatable.

this could all be done with what they spend on military gas masks fer christ sakes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77517351


Actually the morons are the ones believing that solar is the solution to all of our problems.

At this time green energy is just not a good alternative to oil and gas and will not be until it makes sense to switch to green power. And in order for it to make sense solar cells need to be more efficient than they are now and much cheaper in order to compete with oil and gas. Also battery tech needs to be cheaper and to be able to store way more power than lithium batteries currently do.

But I believe that the most promising source of endless power in the future will be in about 10 years if we can perfect nuclear fusion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32183674


It isn't the solution to everything, but it is quite cost effective for now, until it destabilizes the grid because of its intermittency.

That is why everyone is buying their own solar rooftop systems. If you install it yourself, it can pay for itself in 7 years or so.

It is actually the cheapest levelized cost of power of all now.





GLP