Pre-Tribulation Church Rapture 101

Let us look at the history of the rapture. Rapture is a popular term used by some Christians for the rising of the faithful from the dead. This belief states that the rising of the faithful from the dead will be prior to or after a period of immense trouble or tribulation. After seven years of tribulation, the belief is then that there will be 1,000 years of peace followed by the day of final judgment.
Where did this belief come from?

Until the 1830s all Christian Churches believed basically the same things about the second coming of Jesus Christ. Around this time a member of the Scottish sect the Irvingites, Margaret MacDonald, made the first claim that there would be Rapture and the faithful would be gathered to Christ before the period of persecution. From what can be gleaned from research, she was discounted by some people as being “of the Devil” and her prophesies have been discounted.

John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) next picked up the belief in the Rapture and made it very popular. This belief of the Rapture made its way into the footnotes of a translation of the Bible by Cyrus Ingerson Scofiled and the Scofield Reference Bible. This version of the Bible was widely used in England and America and therefore the rapture started to become an accepted doctrine of belief.

The rapture refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Many Christians believe that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.
But notice, in verse 15, Paul says that “…we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up. This is a very important point to stress. Those who are “left” get caught up to meet the Lord. Keep that in mind as you look at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The popular Left Behind books get their name from a passage in Luke 17, and a similar passage in Matthew 24, which compares the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill, one is taken one is left.”

“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right? Jesus takes the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians.
That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages. Well, you need to say to them: “Not so fast, folks.” Two problems with the “Left Behind” interpretation: First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’ coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was left? Noah and his family — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind! After Sodom and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left? Lot and his daughters — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind!

The second problem with the “Left Behind” interpretation, has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4 says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air. You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth. Again, when you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are the ones left behind to meet Jesus.

And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal. Matthew 13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed] is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the age. The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are the evildoers. The angels have taken them and tossed them into the furnace of fire. So, the Left Behind books got it exactly 180 degrees wrong. The ones taken are not the good guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, when He will bring all of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.
In other words, there will be no Rapture like the one the Left Behind books talk about. The Left Behind books teach the opposite of what Scripture actually says.

I present this in good faith and I am not trying to change anyone’s mind or belief. I am simply presenting an opinion because many Christians do not accept the belief in a rapture as detailed above.

Well you could make a start by watching the video that this thread is about.

lol, I'm not Judy. I'm not even a female so you're way off the mark here. One could even say you've, "sinned" (religious humor). Yes, I follow the "claimant" Jesus. Jesus IS the true Messiah. Now, you've not shown me jack since I asked. Instead you continue to assert you're right & I'm wrong with zero substance to back up your claim. You take it further to claim there's another messiah coming. Well you're partly right there but he won't be who you think he is. Most of us refer to him as the Anti-Christ. Jesus accomplished exactly what was prophesied regarding His first coming. To die for the sins of the world. To be a sacrificial lamb. To be a servant. Upon His 2nd return, He comes back as a roaring lion. Now... I'll ask one more time for grins & giggles. You show me where/how I'm wrong, via scripture & not some condescending diatribe & I'll admit I'm wrong.

Pre-tribulation Rapture 101:

There is no such thing in the Bible.

Class dismissed.

You can always tell who's researched the letter from God and who has not.

Rapture is one of the main indicators of a serious biblical comprehension issue.

Let me put it straight out there;

If you believe in the rapture...you're telling God you absolutely despise him and desire satan over him.

That's basically the entire purpose of the rapture deception.

Oh, Chip, I don't know. I don't see it that way.

The way *I* see the "believers" in a Pre-trib rapture is that they don't want to go through a tribulation, and have a WISHFUL WELL FOUNDED HOPE that they will be spirited away and not have to suffer in this world when the evil one begins to really let loose.

For those who DON'T KNOW, the whole doctrine of the Pre-Trib rapture ONLY came into focus about 70 years ago or so.....before that, people KNEW there would be go "get out of jail free" card when it came to those who were still alive during those terrible tribulation years.

Go research it. It is NOT Biblical.

Read Thessalonians, it's all begins there. Then when you study to show thyself approved you will find it in many places. Gods Word is supernaturally discerned, are you ready?

I think that what it really comes down to is that you know that because of your unbelief that you will likely be here for the Great Tribulation. And because misery loves company you are furious that those who believe on the Lords clear promises will escape all of this.

What will make it an even greater torment for you, is that you will remember mocking us, while we will be overjoyed in our wonderful new home...free at last from the threats and evil actions of Satan and his deluded followers. Even now you have still been blessed with a little time. So what's wrong with you? Are you so wedded to your sinful life that you would rather go to hell than get right with the Lord?

Oh, Chip, I don't know. I don't see it that way.

The way *I* see the "believers" in a Pre-trib rapture is that they don't want to go through a tribulation, and have a WISHFUL HOPE that they will be spirited away and not have to suffer in this world when the evil one begins to really let loose.

For those who DON'T KNOW, the whole doctrine of the Pre-Trib rapture ONLY came into focus about 70 years ago or so.....before that, people KNEW there would be go "get out of jail free" card when it came to those who were still alive during those terrible tribulation years.

Go research it. It is NOT Biblical.

Last week John MacArthur of Grace To You was doing a series about Revelation - but kept talking about the rapture.

He pretty much said "if there is no rapture then where is our blessed hope"?



Our Blessed Hope is that we are FORGIVEN our sins and made righteous enough to enter the Kingdom of God.

Read Thessalonians, it's all begins there. Then when you study to show thyself approved you will find it in many places. Gods Word is supernaturally discerned, are you ready?

Sorry but the Darby thing has been so debunked.
Gods Word clearly talks about the Rapture in Thessalonians by Paul. Probably about 70 ad.

Last week John MacArthur of Grace To You was doing a series about Revelation - but kept talking about the rapture.

He pretty much said "if there is no rapture then where is our blessed hope"?



Our Blessed Hope is that we are FORGIVEN our sins and made righteous enough to enter the Kingdom of God.

WHERE does Jesus state that we will MISS tribulation?

For that matter where does Paul say that?

Paul didn't receive nor teach anything other than what the other Apostles did.

Thread: To Understand Paul - His Letters Don't Tell Us All of What He Originally Preached - Bible Study

My apologies. Thought I was responding to Judy.

I'd like to reference the entirety of Tanakh, but since you will ask for specific quotes:

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Deuteronomy 12:30-31
Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

Those three basic quote demonstrate that G-d isn't a man, each shall die for their own sins, and that G-d detests human sacrifice.

The Messiah isn't going to die for anyones sins. That's a pagan idea. There isn't another Messiah coming, but the only Messiah (in this sense of the term).

Your lack of biblical knowledge disgusts me, and I'm not easily disgusted.

Hollywood promotes this "theory" and you are fully behind it, showing your true colors.

Let us look at the history of the rapture. Rapture is a popular term used by some Christians for the rising of the faithful from the dead. This belief states that the rising of the faithful from the dead will be prior to or after a period of immense trouble or tribulation. After seven years of tribulation, the belief is then that there will be 1,000 years of peace followed by the day of final judgment.
Where did this belief come from?

Until the 1830s all Christian Churches believed basically the same things about the second coming of Jesus Christ. Around this time a member of the Scottish sect the Irvingites, Margaret MacDonald, made the first claim that there would be Rapture and the faithful would be gathered to Christ before the period of persecution. From what can be gleaned from research, she was discounted by some people as being “of the Devil” and her prophesies have been discounted.

John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) next picked up the belief in the Rapture and made it very popular. This belief of the Rapture made its way into the footnotes of a translation of the Bible by Cyrus Ingerson Scofiled and the Scofield Reference Bible. This version of the Bible was widely used in England and America and therefore the rapture started to become an accepted doctrine of belief.

The rapture refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Many Christians believe that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.
But notice, in verse 15, Paul says that “…we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up. This is a very important point to stress. Those who are “left” get caught up to meet the Lord. Keep that in mind as you look at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The popular Left Behind books get their name from a passage in Luke 17, and a similar passage in Matthew 24, which compares the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill, one is taken one is left.”

“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right? Jesus takes the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians.
That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages. Well, you need to say to them: “Not so fast, folks.” Two problems with the “Left Behind” interpretation: First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’ coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was left? Noah and his family — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind! After Sodom and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left? Lot and his daughters — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind!

The second problem with the “Left Behind” interpretation, has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4 says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air. You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth. Again, when you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are the ones left behind to meet Jesus.

And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal. Matthew 13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed] is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the age. The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are the evildoers. The angels have taken them and tossed them into the furnace of fire. So, the Left Behind books got it exactly 180 degrees wrong. The ones taken are not the good guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, when He will bring all of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.
In other words, there will be no Rapture like the one the Left Behind books talk about. The Left Behind books teach the opposite of what Scripture actually says.

I present this in good faith and I am not trying to change anyone’s mind or belief. I am simply presenting an opinion because many Christians do not accept the belief in a rapture as detailed above.

Perfect, thank you. We'll start at the top. Numbers. You are correct, God is not a man. God is a triune being, made manifest in 3 forms. God the father, God the Son & God the Holy Spirit. "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness..." (emphasis mine). Here we see God having a conversation with himself. Sounds crazy, I know & it's hard to wrap your head around. Very long & elaborate subject in & of itself however I think most of us would agree that God manifests Himself in many forms, not just those 3 (think burning bush, pillar of fire, etc).

Deut 24:16 - Context should be applied here. This verse is stating that no longer will the children have to pay for the crimes of the previous generation. That "sin" will no longer be counted trans-generational & that each person is accountable for his/her own actions. Also, this chapter is focusing on the physical, not the spiritual.

Deut 12 - is referring to the heathen nations that would sacrifice their children to Molech or other false gods. This is not an all encompassing verse implying there would never be a sacrifice to atone for sins. I'm including a link to help better explain the correlation with the Levitical priesthood/sacrificial requirements to that of the NT's Jesus. [link to unlockingthebible.org (secure)]

I understand we're probably going to reach an impasse here at some point due to the fact that you're not looking at anything outside of the Tanakh & probably consider the NT as extra biblical but I can show you, via scripture, how Jesus was the Passover lamb & fulfilled all prophecy regarding His first coming, to the letter, to the day.

Luke 19:41-44
41As Jesus approached Jerusalem and saw the city, He wept over it 42and said, “If only you had known on this day what would bring you peace! But now it is hidden from your eyes. 43For the days will come upon you when your enemies will barricade you and surround you and hem you in on every side. 44They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”

We have reached an impasse because you are going to continuously twist scripture to fit your christology.

G-d is One, not three. You admit that G-d used the burning bush, pillars of cloud, etc ... but then you continue on with the Church dogma about tribune. The Trinity is pull directly from most pagan faiths.

Also, the passover lamb wasn't for sins and only covered from death the first born of Israel. So even if you can twist using the Hebrew that he was the "passover lamb" only the first born would be saved.

He didn't fulfill any prophesy, except maybe that of the false prophet. I know you will quote the Akida to me or Isaiah 53 to me ... and I will explain with more sources how wrong you are ... only to have to state that I'm blind.

You have you faith in Jebus because you think you are a horrible person that needs a god to die for his sins ... the Torah and the whole of Yid teaching shows otherwise.

Best to you and yours. Someday the nations of the earth will realize that their fathers told them lies and they will turn to a Yid for the truth.

Notice how they always say read 1 Thessalonians but never comment on 2 Thessalonians that was written to correct 1 Thessalonians.

If you read 2nd Thessalonians, the "rapture" event is not until the end, like its supposed to be.

On top of that - compare what Jesus and Paul say

Matthew 24

29 Immediately* after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other*.

1 Thessalonians 4

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Let us look at the history of the rapture. Rapture is a popular term used by some Christians for the rising of the faithful from the dead. This belief states that the rising of the faithful from the dead will be prior to or after a period of immense trouble or tribulation. After seven years of tribulation, the belief is then that there will be 1,000 years of peace followed by the day of final judgment.
Where did this belief come from?

Until the 1830s all Christian Churches believed basically the same things about the second coming of Jesus Christ. Around this time a member of the Scottish sect the Irvingites, Margaret MacDonald, made the first claim that there would be Rapture and the faithful would be gathered to Christ before the period of persecution. From what can be gleaned from research, she was discounted by some people as being “of the Devil” and her prophesies have been discounted.

John Nelson Darby (1800-1882) next picked up the belief in the Rapture and made it very popular. This belief of the Rapture made its way into the footnotes of a translation of the Bible by Cyrus Ingerson Scofiled and the Scofield Reference Bible. This version of the Bible was widely used in England and America and therefore the rapture started to become an accepted doctrine of belief.

The rapture refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Many Christians believe that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.
But notice, in verse 15, Paul says that “…we who are alive, who are left,” shall be caught up. This is a very important point to stress. Those who are “left” get caught up to meet the Lord. Keep that in mind as you look at these next couple of Scripture passages.

The popular Left Behind books get their name from a passage in Luke 17, and a similar passage in Matthew 24, which compares the coming of the Lord to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Matthew 24 puts it this way: “As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man…[they ate, they drank, they married] and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill, one is taken one is left.”

“One is taken, one is left” — the Rapture right? Jesus takes the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians.
That’s how rapture enthusiasts interpret these passages. Well, you need to say to them: “Not so fast, folks.” Two problems with the “Left Behind” interpretation: First, in the passages from Luke 17 and Matthew 24, Jesus’ coming is compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Let’s think about that for a moment. After the flood, who was left? Noah and his family — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind! After Sodom and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left? Lot and his daughters — the good guys. The bad guys were taken and the good guys were left behind!

The second problem with the “Left Behind” interpretation, has to do with what I mentioned above: 1 Thessalonians 4 says that those who are “left” get to meet Jesus in the air. You want to be left behind. Why? Because those who are left behind get to meet Jesus on His return to earth. Again, when you put 1 Thessalonians 4 together with Matthew 24 and Luke 17, it becomes quite apparent that the good guys are the ones left behind to meet Jesus.

And, if you need further proof of that, there’s a passage in Matthew 13 that pretty much seals the deal. Matthew 13:39-43, “…and the enemy who sowed them [the bad seed] is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the close of the age. The Son of man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”

So when Scripture says that “one is taken and one is left,” as it does in Luke 17 and Matthew 24, it is not talking about the Rapture, it is talking about the harvest at the close of the age. The ones who are taken, as it says in Matthew 13, are the evildoers. The angels have taken them and tossed them into the furnace of fire. So, the Left Behind books got it exactly 180 degrees wrong. The ones taken are not the good guys, they are the evildoers. The ones who are left behind are the ones who get to be caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, when He will bring all of the angels and saints with Him and there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.
In other words, there will be no Rapture like the one the Left Behind books talk about. The Left Behind books teach the opposite of what Scripture actually says.

I present this in good faith and I am not trying to change anyone’s mind or belief. I am simply presenting an opinion because many Christians do not accept the belief in a rapture as detailed above.

And it is the evil shits that are going to be removed from this world.. just as I have covered for some time now... all at once .. in one major event. Rapture as conceived by Christians believing it is not even possible... Jesus lives on no clouds in heaven... and ones cannot live in their bodies on clouds... RATIONAL THINKING would help...