Another potential interstellar object discovered | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 62146189 Canada 09/11/2019 05:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Ostria1
User ID: 77845979 Greece 09/11/2019 05:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Astroshill
(OP) Senior Forum Moderator 09/11/2019 05:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | gb00234 as officially been given the designation C/2019 Q4 Borisov for the amateur astronomer who discovered it. [link to minorplanetcenter.net (secure)] |
Astroshill
(OP) Senior Forum Moderator 09/11/2019 05:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well, if that isn't the highest damn eccentricity I've ever seen on the minor planet center... [link to minorplanetcenter.net (secure)] Eccentricity = 3.0796789 If that holds true... holy fuck. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 62146189 Canada 09/11/2019 05:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Interesting! Interstellar objects are rare or we just start to see them when they come close to us? (to our planetary system) Quoting: Ostria1 But anyway, if this is as strange as the first one, we may detect it from sudden changes in world politics... They should take a closer look this time, maybe send up a rocket and greet it. |
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Ostria1
User ID: 77845979 Greece 09/11/2019 05:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Interesting! Interstellar objects are rare or we just start to see them when they come close to us? (to our planetary system) Quoting: Ostria1 But anyway, if this is as strange as the first one, we may detect it from sudden changes in world politics... They should take a closer look this time, maybe send up a rocket and greet it. I wonder if they sent radio signals to the first one Ostria |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77134059 United States 09/11/2019 05:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Interesting! Interstellar objects are rare or we just start to see them when they come close to us? (to our planetary system) Quoting: Ostria1 But anyway, if this is as strange as the first one, we may detect it from sudden changes in world politics... They should take a closer look this time, maybe send up a rocket and greet it. I wonder if they sent radio signals to the first one I wonder if it sent any back! |
Colorqube
User ID: 77989208 United States 09/11/2019 05:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well, if that isn't the highest damn eccentricity I've ever seen on the minor planet center... Quoting: Astroshill [link to minorplanetcenter.net (secure)] Eccentricity = 3.0796789 If that holds true... holy fuck. Laymen terms please ? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77809369 United States 09/11/2019 05:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Jeez how many interstellar bodies have we discovered lately? Is this thing in our solar system yet? [Sorry if that's a dumb question). Quoting: Plato2theGrave I remember only awhile back the oblong thing that was tumbling thru our area.. first interplanetary thing discovered. So wow, theyre finding more? This is only the second, but coming so soon after the first seems unusual if this does pan out to be interstellar. Yes, it's in our solar system and will make its closest approach to the sun in December or January. Be here in 3 months... That's movin , got a speed on that ? |
Ostria1
User ID: 77845979 Greece 09/11/2019 05:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Interesting! Interstellar objects are rare or we just start to see them when they come close to us? (to our planetary system) Quoting: Ostria1 But anyway, if this is as strange as the first one, we may detect it from sudden changes in world politics... They should take a closer look this time, maybe send up a rocket and greet it. I wonder if they sent radio signals to the first one I wonder if it sent any back! Ostria |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 77973870 United Kingdom 09/11/2019 06:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It may also not actually be in a hyperbolic orbit. With only a couple weeks worth of observations we have only seen this object over a very short arc of its orbit, so many possible orbits still fit the data reasonably well. One such possibility is that it's a normal, roughly parabolic orbit (eccentricity close to 1) but non-gravitational acceleration from outgassing is very strong for this comet and pushing it around more than most comets. If that's the case it means it originated in our solar system and strong jets of material from being heated by the sun are creating higher residuals when calculating the trajectory based on a purely gravitational orbit, making the trajectory look unusual. Bill Gray is an expert in orbit determination and here is his take: Quoting: Astroshill [link to groups.yahoo.com (secure)] Reaaallllyy interesting twitter thread here, echoing many of those thoughts: [link to twitter.com (secure)] The size and brightness would seem to be extremely rare for an interstellar object, making that conclusion seem unlikely. Forcing an orbital solution with a parabolic orbit requires non-gravitational acceleration that is much larger than what has been seen in the past with comets. He even jokes that maybe it has a rocket engine on it. So the possibilities are bad data (unlikely, not impossible), interstellar object, or a propelled alien spaceship resembling a comet (ok not really, but it was jokingly suggested). Great thread Astro. However I take issue with the above in bold, how can we know what is typical for interstellar objects when we have a previous sample size of 1 - omuramura A little bit presumptuous don't you think? |
Astroshill
(OP) Senior Forum Moderator 09/11/2019 06:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It may also not actually be in a hyperbolic orbit. With only a couple weeks worth of observations we have only seen this object over a very short arc of its orbit, so many possible orbits still fit the data reasonably well. One such possibility is that it's a normal, roughly parabolic orbit (eccentricity close to 1) but non-gravitational acceleration from outgassing is very strong for this comet and pushing it around more than most comets. If that's the case it means it originated in our solar system and strong jets of material from being heated by the sun are creating higher residuals when calculating the trajectory based on a purely gravitational orbit, making the trajectory look unusual. Bill Gray is an expert in orbit determination and here is his take: Quoting: Astroshill [link to groups.yahoo.com (secure)] Reaaallllyy interesting twitter thread here, echoing many of those thoughts: [link to twitter.com (secure)] The size and brightness would seem to be extremely rare for an interstellar object, making that conclusion seem unlikely. Forcing an orbital solution with a parabolic orbit requires non-gravitational acceleration that is much larger than what has been seen in the past with comets. He even jokes that maybe it has a rocket engine on it. So the possibilities are bad data (unlikely, not impossible), interstellar object, or a propelled alien spaceship resembling a comet (ok not really, but it was jokingly suggested). Great thread Astro. However I take issue with the above in bold, how can we know what is typical for interstellar objects when we have a previous sample size of 1 - omuramura A little bit presumptuous don't you think? No that's actually exactly why it's not presumptuous. The size and brightness are in line with comets that we have been able to readily discover for decades. If hyperbolic interstellar objects of this size and brightness were a common occurrence we would already know about it because we would be seeing them on a regular basis. The fact that we don't, the fact that this is only the second interstellar object discovered, and the fact that it was discovered by an amateur astronomer and isn't particularly dim for newly discovered comet says that this is very rare and/or unusual. You have to understand that when we talk about these things we are talking about the nature of our solar neighborhood, not the galaxy in general or what other solar systems may experience. |
Astroshill
(OP) Senior Forum Moderator 09/11/2019 06:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Ostria1
User ID: 77845979 Greece 09/11/2019 06:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It looks like I might be able to get it from the edge of my lawn between some trees, which should allow me to do a live webcast of it tomorrow morning. It'll be early, like 5 a.m. early, and given how low and dim it will be there's no guarantee I can get it with my scope. It's definitely worth a try though. Quoting: Astroshill Ostria |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77973870 United Kingdom 09/11/2019 06:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Great thread Astro. Quoting: Astroshill However I take issue with the above in bold, how can we know what is typical for interstellar objects when we have a previous sample size of 1 - omuramura A little bit presumptuous don't you think? No that's actually exactly why it's not presumptuous. The size and brightness are in line with comets that we have been able to readily discover for decades. If hyperbolic interstellar objects of this size and brightness were a common occurrence we would already know about it because we would be seeing them on a regular basis. The fact that we don't, the fact that this is only the second interstellar object discovered, and the fact that it was discovered by an amateur astronomer and isn't particularly dim for newly discovered comet says that this is very rare and/or unusual. You have to understand that when we talk about these things we are talking about the nature of our solar neighborhood, not the galaxy in general or what other solar systems may experience. OK, I understand what you're saying, its atypical because its bright and we're good at detecting bright stuff. Interesting, is it possible that our previous visitor (which I doubt I'll ever learn to spell) disturbed something from the Oort cloud or is the velocity simply too great? Is it possible its not that bright but is actually massive? Does the eccentricity over 3 imply its straight as a missile, or in 'orbit' of something extrasolar very far away? |
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Astroshill
(OP) Senior Forum Moderator 09/11/2019 07:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Astroshill No that's actually exactly why it's not presumptuous. The size and brightness are in line with comets that we have been able to readily discover for decades. If hyperbolic interstellar objects of this size and brightness were a common occurrence we would already know about it because we would be seeing them on a regular basis. The fact that we don't, the fact that this is only the second interstellar object discovered, and the fact that it was discovered by an amateur astronomer and isn't particularly dim for newly discovered comet says that this is very rare and/or unusual. You have to understand that when we talk about these things we are talking about the nature of our solar neighborhood, not the galaxy in general or what other solar systems may experience. OK, I understand what you're saying, its atypical because its bright and we're good at detecting bright stuff. Interesting, is it possible that our previous visitor (which I doubt I'll ever learn to spell) disturbed something from the Oort cloud or is the velocity simply too great? I haven't had time to delve into the trajectory in detail yet but from what I've heard they're coming from different directions so it appears at the moment to be unrelated. Is it possible its not that bright but is actually massive? Quoting: ACIf by massive you mean larger than expected, to a point. We can see the angular size of the coma, it's not super diffuse, but that is going to be much larger than the physical nucleus. Does the eccentricity over 3 imply its straight as a missile, or in 'orbit' of something extrasolar very far away? Quoting: ACIt just means it's traveling very fast relative to our solar system, it doesn't share our solar system's velocity at all. If it were orbiting something very far away, our sun's gravity would have likely perturbed it enough that it would no longer be orbiting that object. My guess is that it was ejected from another system before finding its way here. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 41609319 Canada 09/11/2019 07:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Interesting! Interstellar objects are rare or we just start to see them when they come close to us? (to our planetary system) Quoting: Ostria1 But anyway, if this is as strange as the first one, we may detect it from sudden changes in world politics... They should take a closer look this time, maybe send up a rocket and greet it. I wonder if they sent radio signals to the first one Yeh, nothing to see here, move along. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 41609319 Canada 09/11/2019 07:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 62146189 They should take a closer look this time, maybe send up a rocket and greet it. I wonder if they sent radio signals to the first one I wonder if it sent any back! When are we gonna have one of Trudeau's eyebrow falling off? |
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puchong
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Astroshill
(OP) Senior Forum Moderator 09/12/2019 03:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It looks like I might be able to get it from the edge of my lawn between some trees, which should allow me to do a live webcast of it tomorrow morning. It'll be early, like 5 a.m. early, and given how low and dim it will be there's no guarantee I can get it with my scope. It's definitely worth a try though. Quoting: Astroshill Well, no luck, tons of clouds out there this morning. I'm not going to be able to get it this morning. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 74136446 United States 09/12/2019 03:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Our new overlords have a telepathy helmet. This helmet emits so much power that it displaces your own thought patterns with its commands. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5461667 When Overlord Gorakk arrives in orbit he only need to don this helmet and give the first command. Every brain bigger than a fruit fly's will instantly receive the transmission and be helpless to resist. Enjoy the new paradigm, some of you shall work in Gorrak's gold mines with great enthusiasm. Some of you will be brought to the pens as food. Either way, resistance is futile! :helmet: |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77631946 United States 09/12/2019 03:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Our new overlords have a telepathy helmet. This helmet emits so much power that it displaces your own thought patterns with its commands. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5461667 When Overlord Gorakk arrives in orbit he only need to don this helmet and give the first command. Every brain bigger than a fruit fly's will instantly receive the transmission and be helpless to resist. Enjoy the new paradigm, some of you shall work in Gorrak's gold mines with great enthusiasm. Some of you will be brought to the pens as food. Either way, resistance is futile! :helmet: lol! |
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