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TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043  Poland10/27/2019 11:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's the theory we're all working on. Mostly because it's been discovered that silencing yourself and living in the dark just means you've left yourself exposed to the type of people who wander the dark looking for victims who won't scream. I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| thinking...
User ID: 8919838  United States10/28/2019 12:13 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's the theory we're all working on. Mostly because it's been discovered that silencing yourself and living in the dark just means you've left yourself exposed to the type of people who wander the dark looking for victims who won't scream. Your kidnapper is obviously a cluster B personality disordered individual. They're all like that, whether narcs, borderlines, ASPD/sociopaths or histrionics. Exposure is what they fear the most. Keep on shining that light. In his poem Human Pride, Marx admits that his aim is not to improve the world, reform or revolutionize it, but simply to ruin it and enjoy it being ruined: With disdain I will throw my gauntlet full in the face of the world, And see the collapse of this pygmy giant whose fall will not stifle my ardor. Then will I wander godlike and victorious through the ruins of the world And, giving my words an active force, I will feel equal to the Creator. “Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking in the radio for the announcer.” – Nasseim Haramein, Director of Research for the Resonance Project |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 12:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's the theory we're all working on. Mostly because it's been discovered that silencing yourself and living in the dark just means you've left yourself exposed to the type of people who wander the dark looking for victims who won't scream. Your kidnapper is obviously a cluster B personality disordered individual. They're all like that, whether narcs, borderlines, ASPD/sociopaths or histrionics. Exposure is what they fear the most. Keep on shining that light. They usually take that moment of light to claim they're the unsung hero, and to reel in a few new victims in the process. I've watched. It's disturbing. Over the years when there was something that originally struck genuine concern in people - she reframed it. Through reframing she became the hero for taking in the poor little South American child that no one wanted (that she kidnapped internationally). ..the hero for having to take care of a child with injuries (that she inflicted, oh god is that a classic one, it was really disturbing when she injured her ex and did the same thing, offered to be the martyr and take him into her home to "care for him" - he left the country that same week to escape, despite his health, the man still had a brain). ....the hero for her work in research (for the DoD, for military purposes, which she reframed to make it sound like she was curing cancer, literally). The lies were so large and strange that they were hard to keep up with, but people didn't just buy them. In a lot of cases, they offered their friends and family members to her so they could benefit from the same amazing treatment she had just convinced them she provided. She really was a stellar recruiter. Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 10/28/2019 12:48 AM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78099911 United States10/28/2019 12:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.timesunion.com (secure)] During the Vietnam War era, the military experimented with Agent Orange, a toxic defoliant, at Fort McClellan, and stored cannisters of it near a women's training center and barracks, Sutton said. "Virtually every woman who cycled through there in the late 1960s and early 1970s probably have had health affects," Sutton said. He estimated that up to 6,000 women and about half that number of men were made ill by PCBs or Agent Orange at Fort McClellan during the Vietman War years, and the VA has paid out disability benefits to "probably less than 50" of them for health complications. Monsanto and Solutia Inc., which was spun off from Monsanto in 1997, have paid more than $1 billion in damages and clean-up costs to residents of Anniston and face additional legal actions, including some lodged by Vietnam veterans. In 2005, Frasier filed a personal injury suit against Monsanto in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Alabama. U.S. District Judge Karon Owen Bowdre dismissed it, saying Frasier disregarded court orders and deadlines and filed incorrect paperwork, according to public court documents |
| thinking...
User ID: 8919838 United States10/28/2019 01:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's the theory we're all working on. Mostly because it's been discovered that silencing yourself and living in the dark just means you've left yourself exposed to the type of people who wander the dark looking for victims who won't scream. Your kidnapper is obviously a cluster B personality disordered individual. They're all like that, whether narcs, borderlines, ASPD/sociopaths or histrionics. Exposure is what they fear the most. Keep on shining that light. They usually take that moment of light to claim they're the unsung hero, and to reel in a few new victims in the process. I've watched. It's disturbing. Over the years when there was something that originally struck genuine concern in people - she reframed it. Through reframing she became the hero for taking in the poor little South American child that no one wanted (that she kidnapped internationally). ..the hero for having to take care of a child with injuries (that she inflicted, oh god is that a classic one, it was really disturbing when she injured her ex and did the same thing, offered to be the martyr and take him into her home to "care for him" - he left the country that same week to escape, despite his health, the man still had a brain). ....the hero for her work in research (for the DoD, for military purposes, which she reframed to make it sound like she was curing cancer, literally). The lies were so large and strange that they were hard to keep up with, but people didn't just buy them. In a lot of cases, they offered their friends and family members to her so they could benefit from the same amazing treatment she had just convinced them she provided. She really was a stellar recruiter. I, too, have had personal experience with these freaks (more than one). They'll stop at nothing to get what they want and their image is all important in keeping up the con job. I really hope you contact that Argentine lawyer to explore suing that bitch. In his poem Human Pride, Marx admits that his aim is not to improve the world, reform or revolutionize it, but simply to ruin it and enjoy it being ruined: With disdain I will throw my gauntlet full in the face of the world, And see the collapse of this pygmy giant whose fall will not stifle my ardor. Then will I wander godlike and victorious through the ruins of the world And, giving my words an active force, I will feel equal to the Creator. “Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking in the radio for the announcer.” – Nasseim Haramein, Director of Research for the Resonance Project |
| Lance Roseman From BC
User ID: 45329550  Canada10/28/2019 01:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's the theory we're all working on. Mostly because it's been discovered that silencing yourself and living in the dark just means you've left yourself exposed to the type of people who wander the dark looking for victims who won't scream. If I quote it to you can I 'borrow' that line for my signature? If you are not busy weaving your own magick, you are trapped in anothers spell. “It’s time you realized that you have something in you more powerful and miraculous than the things that affect you and make you dance like a puppet.” – Marcus Aurelius |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 01:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.timesunion.com (secure)] Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78099911 During the Vietnam War era, the military experimented with Agent Orange, a toxic defoliant, at Fort McClellan, and stored cannisters of it near a women's training center and barracks, Sutton said. "Virtually every woman who cycled through there in the late 1960s and early 1970s probably have had health affects," Sutton said. He estimated that up to 6,000 women and about half that number of men were made ill by PCBs or Agent Orange at Fort McClellan during the Vietman War years, and the VA has paid out disability benefits to "probably less than 50" of them for health complications. Monsanto and Solutia Inc., which was spun off from Monsanto in 1997, have paid more than $1 billion in damages and clean-up costs to residents of Anniston and face additional legal actions, including some lodged by Vietnam veterans. In 2005, Frasier filed a personal injury suit against Monsanto in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Alabama. U.S. District Judge Karon Owen Bowdre dismissed it, saying Frasier disregarded court orders and deadlines and filed incorrect paperwork, according to public court documents I can believe it about the agent orange. That last part about the court thing..is Frasier a person? Because, I've seen that last part pretty much word for word when Cointel took over to play controlled opposition to a regulatory commission. They pushed through one of their own into a position in a grassroots organization, the regulatory commission chose that person - and only that person - to go up against as the representative for the people in the case, and then she (yeah, she, god has it been a long life) intentionally screwed up the paperwork, missed deadlines, etc. Then the regulatory commission was able to face save when they sided with military and industry (military and industry the cointel woman was actually being funded by) and against the people, because "they tried but the people screwed up the paperwork." It looks like they might still be up to their old tricks to get out of lawsuits. I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 01:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's the theory we're all working on. Mostly because it's been discovered that silencing yourself and living in the dark just means you've left yourself exposed to the type of people who wander the dark looking for victims who won't scream. If I quote it to you can I 'borrow' that line for my signature? But of course! I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78099911 United States10/28/2019 01:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.timesunion.com (secure)] Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78099911 During the Vietnam War era, the military experimented with Agent Orange, a toxic defoliant, at Fort McClellan, and stored cannisters of it near a women's training center and barracks, Sutton said. "Virtually every woman who cycled through there in the late 1960s and early 1970s probably have had health affects," Sutton said. He estimated that up to 6,000 women and about half that number of men were made ill by PCBs or Agent Orange at Fort McClellan during the Vietman War years, and the VA has paid out disability benefits to "probably less than 50" of them for health complications. Monsanto and Solutia Inc., which was spun off from Monsanto in 1997, have paid more than $1 billion in damages and clean-up costs to residents of Anniston and face additional legal actions, including some lodged by Vietnam veterans. In 2005, Frasier filed a personal injury suit against Monsanto in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Alabama. U.S. District Judge Karon Owen Bowdre dismissed it, saying Frasier disregarded court orders and deadlines and filed incorrect paperwork, according to public court documents I can believe it about the agent orange. That last part about the court thing..is Frasier a person? Because, I've seen that last part pretty much word for word when Cointel took over to play controlled opposition to a regulatory commission. They pushed through one of their own into a position in a grassroots organization, the regulatory commission chose that person - and only that person - to go up against as the representative for the people in the case, and then she (yeah, she, god has it been a long life) intentionally screwed up the paperwork, missed deadlines, etc. Then the regulatory commission was able to face save when they sided with military and industry (military and industry the cointel woman was actually being funded by) and against the people, because "they tried but the people screwed up the paperwork." It looks like they might still be up to their old tricks to get out of lawsuits. Several women died in the seventies from cancer. I knew one of them personally. Their slogan was 2 weeks is all it takes to be tested as monkeys for the Woman Army Corps. Agent red purple orange and who knows what else. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77349451 Canada10/28/2019 01:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I led a life that didn't fit the generation in which it was being lived, and I've come to realize how different my perspective is because of it, and how it only takes one generation for people to stop responding to things that should probably deeply concern them. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft You see, while most people were done fighting the Nazis in the 1940s, I had the shit luck of starting this life more than three decades later in a country that was just then finally killing off its Jewish and other unlikables. They were a little late to the game. Everyone else had already stopped playing or was only giving 1/10th of the effort. So, I ended up as a survivor of genocide an entire generation behind the others. It does do something to the psyche. In the pits of despair that it was, something as simple as someone pouring you a glass of apple juice becomes this clear and beautiful sign of the good and humanity that is in the world. It also leaves you realizing just how close to death and danger we really are. Both sides of that very vast and wide range of human nature are impossible to forget once experienced. Seeing as they were essentially Nazis, in the literal sense of the word (not the current BS meaning), it's not surprising that I was handed over to someone who shared their beliefs. In fact, that was written into their doctrine - they chose to give the kids to people who could raise them as the regime thought was appropriate, to see if we could be redeemed and utilized (and killing babies was really bad optics, even in that situation). So, I ended up living with someone who took advantage of me, took advantage of a government position, took advantage of society - because they shared oppressive beliefs and thus saw no value in any of us. Their own family had come to the United States as war criminals escaping persecution after WW2 in exchange for working on the behalf of the United States to share their knowledge and expertise, presumably to make the US more formidable. I was in the hands of - quite literally - Nazis. And worse, the family were government-employed scientists and politicians. There's no worse combination on this planet. What I saw while living with them, what I saw them do to people, was very much in line with the science and politics they had displayed in war. But I was living in a generation that was no longer so acutely aware, who had not been recent victims, who thought the war was over, who had a chance to look away and forget. Despite sharing the same space with them, I didn't have that privilege. I sat there and watched my new family commit human rights violation after human rights violation, crime after crime, on US soil and abroad, hidden in plain sight in a country that was relaxed and in denial of danger enough to let it go on right under their noses. I felt like I was still a prisoner, like a WW2 victim who had never left the concentration camp. The only difference was that the world around me was no longer aware. They continued to live their lives as the people I was with mainstreamed and normalized what had once been hidden behind barbed wire and tall concrete walls. I could have screamed from the top of the tallest building and not been heard, because I was one of so very few in this generation with the acute awareness and knowledge that come with having experienced that beast firsthand, undiluted, and without the option of denial that comes with having only experienced relative safety. This is one of the key factors behind why history repeats itself on such a regular basis. When the time is ripe for destruction, there are too few left alive from the previous cycle to remember and stop it. History books are great, but they cannot replace experience. yes this life is hell but we re here to make it a better place than we left it and, how old are you? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77349451 Canada10/28/2019 01:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | and so we too have our ways about to change things around and many are clairvoyent empaths and or prophets and or saints and or endowed with the Holy Spirit so like I said..this world is hell we knew it before we came here we came here to change it little by little we will. its inevitable and I am sorry you had to go through that if this story is true ... we are aware of how the so called system works they create a problem and then pretend to have a solution to solve it thats how its been from the beginning when they rebelled but you may think there are only a few left to make sure it does not repeat but you are wrong there there are very very many why do you think they allowed abortions worldwide? because they knew and know whats coming in and are trying to stop it its not about population control its about them trying to stop the gifted ones from coming in theyre too late theyve been here since the 70s |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 01:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: TlvmmCpoft That's the theory we're all working on. Mostly because it's been discovered that silencing yourself and living in the dark just means you've left yourself exposed to the type of people who wander the dark looking for victims who won't scream. Your kidnapper is obviously a cluster B personality disordered individual. They're all like that, whether narcs, borderlines, ASPD/sociopaths or histrionics. Exposure is what they fear the most. Keep on shining that light. They usually take that moment of light to claim they're the unsung hero, and to reel in a few new victims in the process. I've watched. It's disturbing. Over the years when there was something that originally struck genuine concern in people - she reframed it. Through reframing she became the hero for taking in the poor little South American child that no one wanted (that she kidnapped internationally). ..the hero for having to take care of a child with injuries (that she inflicted, oh god is that a classic one, it was really disturbing when she injured her ex and did the same thing, offered to be the martyr and take him into her home to "care for him" - he left the country that same week to escape, despite his health, the man still had a brain). ....the hero for her work in research (for the DoD, for military purposes, which she reframed to make it sound like she was curing cancer, literally). The lies were so large and strange that they were hard to keep up with, but people didn't just buy them. In a lot of cases, they offered their friends and family members to her so they could benefit from the same amazing treatment she had just convinced them she provided. She really was a stellar recruiter. I, too, have had personal experience with these freaks (more than one). They'll stop at nothing to get what they want and their image is all important in keeping up the con job. I really hope you contact that Argentine lawyer to explore suing that bitch. I read your post after I responded to the Agent Orange one. They pushed through one of their own into a position in a grassroots organization, the regulatory commission chose that person - and only that person - to go up against as the representative for the people in the case, and then she (yeah, she, god has it been a long life) intentionally screwed up the paperwork, missed deadlines, etc. Quoting: TlvmmCpoftThen the regulatory commission was able to face save when they sided with military and industry (military and industry the cointel woman was actually being funded by) and against the people, because "they tried but the people screwed up the paperwork." It looks like they might still be up to their old tricks to get out of lawsuits. Seeing the two posts oh so close to each other reminded me of something...well, a few dozen things, but I'm not going to write them all down... Why would the Argentine government (currently financially screwed) get their very good American buddies (always a financial backer) in trouble by admitting more than one of their missing - including children - were shipped to the US via a US gov funnel? Why would the DoD sacrifice one of its prize employees who had kept it stocked with research subjects, had gotten it out of at least one lawsuit, and many many other things over the course of her career? And then there's the oddity I noticed in the State Department. When I was trying to renounce my US citizenship, I decided to try to do it right (yeah, I'm an idiot). So, I explained about the birth certificate. Also explained that I was happy to pay to renounce either way, and I did have all the paperwork in order and cash stacked neatly - I'm annoying like that. They said give them a few weeks. Okay. It took more than a month for a response, but there was a government shutdown. Then, the overseas State Department office emails me...in the evening, on New Year's Eve...in the middle of a government shutdown...to tell me that they had contacted the US and the US records office (which was closed for the government shutdown and Christmas so I'm not sure who they were talking to) and had ruled out it being a forgery done by a hack who had stolen a deceased person's record (which I never claimed it was...just that it was filed several years later than a valid one would have been, since usually when people are born it doesn't take 3-4 years for their birth record to appear in the records). Was that just a very strange and lazy bureaucrat or was he covering for someone in government? Remember, she's a gem. I'm a fucking war orphan. Which one of us has more value? Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 10/28/2019 02:16 AM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77349451 Canada10/28/2019 01:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | but just like there are those who work for the dark side there are those that work for the light Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77349451 and so we too have our ways about to change things around and many are clairvoyent empaths and or prophets and or saints and or endowed with the Holy Spirit so like I said..this world is hell we knew it before we came here we came here to change it little by little we will. its inevitable and I am sorry you had to go through that if this story is true ... we are aware of how the so called system works they create a problem and then pretend to have a solution to solve it thats how its been from the beginning when they rebelled but you may think there are only a few left to make sure it does not repeat but you are wrong there there are very very many why do you think they allowed abortions worldwide? because they knew and know whats coming in and are trying to stop it its not about population control its about them trying to stop the gifted ones from coming in theyre too late theyve been here since the 70s and in every human being there is a seed of light when that seed is activated the heart wakes up and they start to heal and open up to love regardless of who they are |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77349451 Canada10/28/2019 01:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.timesunion.com (secure)] Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78099911 During the Vietnam War era, the military experimented with Agent Orange, a toxic defoliant, at Fort McClellan, and stored cannisters of it near a women's training center and barracks, Sutton said. "Virtually every woman who cycled through there in the late 1960s and early 1970s probably have had health affects," Sutton said. He estimated that up to 6,000 women and about half that number of men were made ill by PCBs or Agent Orange at Fort McClellan during the Vietman War years, and the VA has paid out disability benefits to "probably less than 50" of them for health complications. Monsanto and Solutia Inc., which was spun off from Monsanto in 1997, have paid more than $1 billion in damages and clean-up costs to residents of Anniston and face additional legal actions, including some lodged by Vietnam veterans. In 2005, Frasier filed a personal injury suit against Monsanto in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Alabama. U.S. District Judge Karon Owen Bowdre dismissed it, saying Frasier disregarded court orders and deadlines and filed incorrect paperwork, according to public court documents I can believe it about the agent orange. That last part about the court thing..is Frasier a person? Because, I've seen that last part pretty much word for word when Cointel took over to play controlled opposition to a regulatory commission. They pushed through one of their own into a position in a grassroots organization, the regulatory commission chose that person - and only that person - to go up against as the representative for the people in the case, and then she (yeah, she, god has it been a long life) intentionally screwed up the paperwork, missed deadlines, etc. Then the regulatory commission was able to face save when they sided with military and industry (military and industry the cointel woman was actually being funded by) and against the people, because "they tried but the people screwed up the paperwork." It looks like they might still be up to their old tricks to get out of lawsuits. there is nothing new about this this is what they use to spray on foods and crops and in GMO they use ww2 chemicals |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77349451 Canada10/28/2019 01:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | That's the theory we're all working on. Mostly because it's been discovered that silencing yourself and living in the dark just means you've left yourself exposed to the type of people who wander the dark looking for victims who won't scream. If I quote it to you can I 'borrow' that line for my signature? But of course! so then your people are jewish? have you looked for your parents or family? anyone you may be related to? |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 01:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: TlvmmCpoft That's the theory we're all working on. Mostly because it's been discovered that silencing yourself and living in the dark just means you've left yourself exposed to the type of people who wander the dark looking for victims who won't scream. If I quote it to you can I 'borrow' that line for my signature? But of course! so then your people are jewish? have you looked for your parents or family? anyone you may be related to? Slightly difficult without access. The Argentine prison beuracrats claim not only did they never keep records of who was in any of their prisons, but they still don't. I guess they just randomly toss people out on the street when they think their time might have been served. Obviously, I really just think they're full of it. The archives - I keep getting forwarded to an invalid email, by their clerk. This has been going on for at least three years. The non profit in charge is so paranoid that they think everyone is after their money (as if their currency is still worth something) and are convinced every person who approaches them is a scam artist. I've been dealing with them for a decade. I haven't gotten past the front door. The government told me to go to court. At least that was an answer. I'm still working on finding an attorney who will take my money and do more than write a firmly worded letter. Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 10/28/2019 02:00 AM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 03:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It does make you feel tiny and alone. All of the attorneys and non profits are moving people in the opposite direction - i.e. into the first world. They don't do the other direction. It goes against their world view, so they assist with trafficking on both sides of the funnel, as long as that traffic is heading to the lands of welfare payments, they think they're rescuers. Mind you, after meeting them, I agree with them. The people make the country, and their country is disgusting. Fleeing it would seem reasonable. But I'm not trying to move there, just seek my identity. The two are not the same. Unlike them, I'm not on welfare, dependent on a country to take care of me. I don't need to go to them. Other countries are willing to take me in, as an immigrant - not an illegal immigrant, not a refugee - but as someone who contributes to the economy. I've been out in the world a very long time. I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 02:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Anyway, the bureaucracy is depressing. They don't deny that the birth certificate in the town records was filed years after I was born, and after I came to the country, and the hospital listed on it has never had me in their own records. They just don't care because "it's in the file now" and there's this belief that they're doing you a favor by getting you into the US, and if you don't understand that it's a favor, then you're just a stupid retarded immigrant they need to help more by making sure you stay with them. Welcome to American culture. When they don't have enough diversity they just start claiming people. Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 10/28/2019 02:20 PM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77765210 United States10/28/2019 02:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I think many people will try to wait things out. It's in the majority of the population's nature. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft They act docile and wait for justice to catch up, or history to pass. That would be how I lost my mom. She waited patiently, behaved perfectly, and did everything she was told to. It's also how I lost decades of my own life in a prison that was slightly harder to see, behaving in the same way because I thought eventually I'd find my way out. Yes. I see this. It is the easiest trap. But by behaving in that way, we maintain and give strength to a bad situation, and eventually we discover that there is no larger and freer world to escape to, because everyone everywhere has had that same distorted survival instinct. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft The instinct may have made sense when waiting out a bear, but it does not work when waiting out other humans in the societies in which we live. They aren't just passing through. Yes, I think. If I am interpreting you correctly, you are saying that one must act. Act differently. Impinge upon the writhing mass of humanity to make space for self. I think I agree with you here. I do believe that there is a larger and freer world to escape to... but its tricky as all **** to get out of the pacifist prison you mentioned above. Tonight I was talking to my kids about the fact that we live in this animal body... its like the ultimate VR goggles. And it interacts fantastically well with the "physical" world that surrounds us... but where does that VR suit we wear end and the real self begin? What is the part of me that really does good or bad things? Where is the part that hopes or invents? It was a time of reflection with a lot of questions and discussion and not a whole lot of answers. I mentioned the idea that manybe we are wired into the amygdalae or... maybe into the 72,000 nadis each with its own perspective of the whole. Or maybe some combination, and that ultimately we, being the essential being, must be able to create experiments that differentiate the machine from the spirit. I know this sounds like some retarded mystical trip... the point I am trying to make is an analogy. Like... that just as we, you and I, have spirits or souls that are outside (somehow) of our physical machine, so too the whole of humanity has some kind of collective soul. Not a borg or a hive mind, but an intra-active connectivity of emotion and goodness. The masses that refuse (ultimately) to break free of the lusts that aliveness makes possible... these do not, cannot attain to the "collective soul". I tell my kids that its not hard to be good, its just a little harder than being bad. So, every day, make the choices that are required to be good. That is the path. Its a path full of knowledge and understanding and crazy, crazy experiences. And, in my experience, the creator is there as well... and loves to teach. On that path there is a way out. In this life, on this Earth. But, God, you have to be faithful to the idea. The masses will come and go. What is the shell to the nut? They grew together, lived together, but in the end the nut grows a new tree and the hull just oxidizes in the ground. I'm with you, here and tomorrow. Yeah. The current model isn't working. ... As for the concept of a global consciousness (or something in that realm, I pondered it myself at one point. It's a soothing thought - a sense of connectivity - isn't it?)... I'm not going to add my own thoughts, though. I prefer sticking to the tangible and the things I can see. It's where I know change can be made. I hope you, OP, didn't mind my previous attempt (nor this one) at editing quotes in order to try to be specific. I hope to do a better job, saving you from having to trytofixquoteboxes I have not read all of the responses, but only those up to (what I hope I've properly boxed this time and for which I hope I've properly cited) AC77963671. It was my intention to read all responses... take it all in, if you will... (and I will continue), but I can't move forward without pausing here to say thank you for this thread to AC77963671: if I've managed this properly, I hope to have highlighted portions of your response above in blue in order to say that your message does not at all 'sound like some retarded mystical trip' ...in order to say, I think you're doing an excellent job of communicating truth ...in order to say thank you for this post! I wonder could your 'lusts of aliveness' (which I love as a description btw) translate to Selfishness? I'm not trying to change your description, I'm asking if you would consider it a fair translation? I love that you are teaching your children that they have the option to choose. I love that you are being realistic with them in that it takes more effort to be *good* than *bad* ...I believe evil is naturally seductive and that it takes *deliberation* (fair translation of your *action*?) to override our default nature - selfishness. I believe that this: 'its tricky as all **** to get out' is nothing more than than a trick, an illusion, a convenient excuse, if you will, designed to encourage/reinforce our selfish default, and ultimately, prevent us from discovering The Path... and that God gives us very simply the counter to that trick: Pray Ceaselessly... and I wonder if your 'you have to be faithful' comment means that you would agree with my conclusion? All the way around the world to say: I really admire your approach AC77963671 and hope I've not twisted it in any way that might offend you. And OP, could you conceive of AC's analogy in a way that allows the time and effort (yours and your mom's) spent *behaving properly* to have not been in vain? A potential solution to what you see as an imperfect model? My experience is that this: 'Its a path full of knowledge and understanding and crazy, crazy experiences. And, in my experience, the creator is there as well... and loves to teach' is the TRUE TRUE and is extremely and undeniably tangible. |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 02:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And OP, could you conceive of AC's analogy in a way that allows the time and effort (yours and your mom's) spent *behaving properly* to have not been in vain? A potential solution to what you see as an imperfect model? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77765210 My experience is that this: 'Its a path full of knowledge and understanding and crazy, crazy experiences. And, in my experience, the creator is there as well... and loves to teach' is the TRUE TRUE and is extremely and undeniably tangible. We only have one lifetime. If we waste the entire thing wishing, praying, and waiting - then nothing is going to happen and nothing is going to improve. In fact, if the only movement being done is by those who would harm you while you remain immobile and frozen like a terrified bunny in front of a mountain lion...well, when you get to heaven ask any of the billions of dead rabbits what the eventual outcome of that is. I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77765210 United States10/28/2019 05:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We only have one lifetime. If we waste the entire thing wishing, praying, and waiting - then nothing is going to happen and nothing is going to improve. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft In fact, if the only movement being done is by those who would harm you while you remain immobile and frozen like a terrified bunny in front of a mountain lion...well, when you get to heaven ask any of the billions of dead rabbits what the eventual outcome of that is. We only have one lifetime, agreed When Peter was called to walk towards God he (Peter) was on a boat in water. Imagine the faith required to step off a platform surrounded by water and expect to, and indeed, to *walk* across water towards God. You seem more than willing to entertain that evil exists. You seem to ask that others to join you in believing that evil exists (apologies if I'm misunderstanding). I believe that evil exists. I'm willing to acknowledge it with you. I believe you experienced it up close and personally. If you do indeed believe evil exists, is it such a reach then to believe the opposite extreme exists? Is it possible for you to entertain the idea that prayer = equally miraculous extremes to the unfortunate series of life events you've endured? Is it possible for you to entertain the idea that God allowed you to be stripped of everything this world has to offer so that you might be prompted to (re)turn your gaze upon Him? I guess what I'm asking of you is that you not be like one of the trolls who came into this thread basically calling your story a lie. I guess I'm asking you to hear that the opposite of evil is REAL and TRUE and MORE powerful than the evil you seem to want acknowledged. I am begging you, honestly, to consider that prayer does not belong in the same category as wishing and waiting in the context above. I am begging you to consider that Peter stepped off of the boat onto the water in faith... and that faith is not akin to deer in the headlights petrified with fear. Nor is it passive. It is every bit as real as your real and it is Almighty. with love |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 05:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We only have one lifetime. If we waste the entire thing wishing, praying, and waiting - then nothing is going to happen and nothing is going to improve. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft In fact, if the only movement being done is by those who would harm you while you remain immobile and frozen like a terrified bunny in front of a mountain lion...well, when you get to heaven ask any of the billions of dead rabbits what the eventual outcome of that is. We only have one lifetime, agreed When Peter was called to walk towards God he (Peter) was on a boat in water. Imagine the faith required to step off a platform surrounded by water and expect to, and indeed, to *walk* across water towards God. You seem more than willing to entertain that evil exists. You seem to ask that others to join you in believing that evil exists (apologies if I'm misunderstanding). I believe that evil exists. I'm willing to acknowledge it with you. I believe you experienced it up close and personally. If you do indeed believe evil exists, is it such a reach then to believe the opposite extreme exists? Is it possible for you to entertain the idea that prayer = equally miraculous extremes to the unfortunate series of life events you've endured? Is it possible for you to entertain the idea that God allowed you to be stripped of everything this world has to offer so that you might be prompted to (re)turn your gaze upon Him? I guess what I'm asking of you is that you not be like one of the trolls who came into this thread basically calling your story a lie. I guess I'm asking you to hear that the opposite of evil is REAL and TRUE and MORE powerful than the evil you seem to want acknowledged. I am begging you, honestly, to consider that prayer does not belong in the same category as wishing and waiting in the context above. I am begging you to consider that Peter stepped off of the boat onto the water in faith... and that faith is not akin to deer in the headlights petrified with fear. Nor is it passive. It is every bit as real as your real and it is Almighty. with love I have, quite literally, saved lives in emergency situations - difficultly and with risk to myself - while others stood to the side and did nothing but panic or pray. No, prayer is not the answer to tangible problems in this life. Doing something is. Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 10/28/2019 05:33 PM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Lance Roseman From BC
User ID: 45329550 Canada10/28/2019 07:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We only have one lifetime. If we waste the entire thing wishing, praying, and waiting - then nothing is going to happen and nothing is going to improve. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft In fact, if the only movement being done is by those who would harm you while you remain immobile and frozen like a terrified bunny in front of a mountain lion...well, when you get to heaven ask any of the billions of dead rabbits what the eventual outcome of that is. We only have one lifetime, agreed When Peter was called to walk towards God he (Peter) was on a boat in water. Imagine the faith required to step off a platform surrounded by water and expect to, and indeed, to *walk* across water towards God. You seem more than willing to entertain that evil exists. You seem to ask that others to join you in believing that evil exists (apologies if I'm misunderstanding). I believe that evil exists. I'm willing to acknowledge it with you. I believe you experienced it up close and personally. If you do indeed believe evil exists, is it such a reach then to believe the opposite extreme exists? Is it possible for you to entertain the idea that prayer = equally miraculous extremes to the unfortunate series of life events you've endured? Is it possible for you to entertain the idea that God allowed you to be stripped of everything this world has to offer so that you might be prompted to (re)turn your gaze upon Him? I guess what I'm asking of you is that you not be like one of the trolls who came into this thread basically calling your story a lie. I guess I'm asking you to hear that the opposite of evil is REAL and TRUE and MORE powerful than the evil you seem to want acknowledged. I am begging you, honestly, to consider that prayer does not belong in the same category as wishing and waiting in the context above. I am begging you to consider that Peter stepped off of the boat onto the water in faith... and that faith is not akin to deer in the headlights petrified with fear. Nor is it passive. It is every bit as real as your real and it is Almighty. with love I have, quite literally, saved lives in emergency situations - difficultly and with risk to myself - while others stood to the side and did nothing but panic or pray. No, prayer is not the answer to tangible problems in this life. Doing something is. First responders do not pray. They do. Had it happen a few times even though my First Aid training was ages ago. I live near a high incident bend in the road. As I ordered my son to clear all the dead branches from the tree around the car, I simply held the mans hand and urged him not to move. Comforted him. By the time my son cleared all the dead branches more capable firt responders had showed up and thanked us both. Standing there and praying would have just been silly. If you are not busy weaving your own magick, you are trapped in anothers spell. “It’s time you realized that you have something in you more powerful and miraculous than the things that affect you and make you dance like a puppet.” – Marcus Aurelius |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 07:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We only have one lifetime. If we waste the entire thing wishing, praying, and waiting - then nothing is going to happen and nothing is going to improve. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft In fact, if the only movement being done is by those who would harm you while you remain immobile and frozen like a terrified bunny in front of a mountain lion...well, when you get to heaven ask any of the billions of dead rabbits what the eventual outcome of that is. We only have one lifetime, agreed When Peter was called to walk towards God he (Peter) was on a boat in water. Imagine the faith required to step off a platform surrounded by water and expect to, and indeed, to *walk* across water towards God. You seem more than willing to entertain that evil exists. You seem to ask that others to join you in believing that evil exists (apologies if I'm misunderstanding). I believe that evil exists. I'm willing to acknowledge it with you. I believe you experienced it up close and personally. If you do indeed believe evil exists, is it such a reach then to believe the opposite extreme exists? Is it possible for you to entertain the idea that prayer = equally miraculous extremes to the unfortunate series of life events you've endured? Is it possible for you to entertain the idea that God allowed you to be stripped of everything this world has to offer so that you might be prompted to (re)turn your gaze upon Him? I guess what I'm asking of you is that you not be like one of the trolls who came into this thread basically calling your story a lie. I guess I'm asking you to hear that the opposite of evil is REAL and TRUE and MORE powerful than the evil you seem to want acknowledged. I am begging you, honestly, to consider that prayer does not belong in the same category as wishing and waiting in the context above. I am begging you to consider that Peter stepped off of the boat onto the water in faith... and that faith is not akin to deer in the headlights petrified with fear. Nor is it passive. It is every bit as real as your real and it is Almighty. with love I have, quite literally, saved lives in emergency situations - difficultly and with risk to myself - while others stood to the side and did nothing but panic or pray. No, prayer is not the answer to tangible problems in this life. Doing something is. First responders do not pray. They do. Had it happen a few times even though my First Aid training was ages ago. I live near a high incident bend in the road. As I ordered my son to clear all the dead branches from the tree around the car, I simply held the mans hand and urged him not to move. Comforted him. By the time my son cleared all the dead branches more capable firt responders had showed up and thanked us both. Standing there and praying would have just been silly. Yep. The fact is that while you cannot fix every situation, you won't fix any of them if you don't try. I was pulling a drowning man out of the water one time. It was in a pool. Everyone else was just staring or sunbathing. I know you're not supposed to dive in after them, but in that moment, it looked like the only option. I only had to go under a few feet, hold my breath to get him to the surface, and then push him to the side of the pool, which genuinely wasn't that far away, maybe another eight or ten feet. But holy fuck was he heavy. It took everything in me to get that man just to the surface, never mind the edge of the pool. If he had struggled, there's a damn good chance he or both of us would have died. It took serious effort and there were some long oxygen-less moments there when I didn't think all of my underwater pushing and shoving was going to be enough. Life takes a hell of a lot more than prayer, and even when we give it all of our effort plus some, sometimes it's still not enough. Thankfully, it was enough in that case. I got him to the side of the pool. He lived. Vomited a few times...but lived. Struggle isn't 100% successful, but it's got a hell of a higher success rate than not trying. I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| thinking...
User ID: 8919838 United States10/28/2019 09:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I wouldn't be so quick to say we only have one life, unless multiple incarnations count as one life with many phases. Sometimes prayer is all we have. I experienced that as my stepfather lay dying and could not be saved. Sometimes it's a combination of action and spiritual focus, which I've experienced with animal rescue. When it comes to ourselves, yes, we should pray and keep focused on the job (self refinement) but that also requires action. There is no accepting Christ or any other path one might claim without action. Action can mean things like forcing ourselves to change perspectives, thinking patterns and always checking ourselves on living up to the highest ideal we hold. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, the greatest opportunity to have a positive effect (often in ways unobserved) is in "Man, know thyself!" and engaging in constant self introspection. The only ones we have control over is ourselves. Naturally, I'm not talking about when we're children but I mean as adults. A lot of us are dealt shitty hands and if we survive it we have to decide how we play those cards. Self control (over thought, word and deed) brings a lot of peace. In his poem Human Pride, Marx admits that his aim is not to improve the world, reform or revolutionize it, but simply to ruin it and enjoy it being ruined: With disdain I will throw my gauntlet full in the face of the world, And see the collapse of this pygmy giant whose fall will not stifle my ardor. Then will I wander godlike and victorious through the ruins of the world And, giving my words an active force, I will feel equal to the Creator. “Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking in the radio for the announcer.” – Nasseim Haramein, Director of Research for the Resonance Project |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 10:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I wouldn't be so quick to say we only have one life, unless multiple incarnations count as one life with many phases. Quoting: thinking... Sometimes prayer is all we have. I experienced that as my stepfather lay dying and could not be saved. Sometimes it's a combination of action and spiritual focus, which I've experienced with animal rescue. When it comes to ourselves, yes, we should pray and keep focused on the job (self refinement) but that also requires action. There is no accepting Christ or any other path one might claim without action. Action can mean things like forcing ourselves to change perspectives, thinking patterns and always checking ourselves on living up to the highest ideal we hold. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, the greatest opportunity to have a positive effect (often in ways unobserved) is in "Man, know thyself!" and engaging in constant self introspection. The only ones we have control over is ourselves. Naturally, I'm not talking about when we're children but I mean as adults. A lot of us are dealt shitty hands and if we survive it we have to decide how we play those cards. Self control (over thought, word and deed) brings a lot of peace. I'd like to think I'm not lying on a bed dying quite yet  I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| thinking...
User ID: 8919838 United States10/28/2019 11:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I wouldn't be so quick to say we only have one life, unless multiple incarnations count as one life with many phases. Quoting: thinking... Sometimes prayer is all we have. I experienced that as my stepfather lay dying and could not be saved. Sometimes it's a combination of action and spiritual focus, which I've experienced with animal rescue. When it comes to ourselves, yes, we should pray and keep focused on the job (self refinement) but that also requires action. There is no accepting Christ or any other path one might claim without action. Action can mean things like forcing ourselves to change perspectives, thinking patterns and always checking ourselves on living up to the highest ideal we hold. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, the greatest opportunity to have a positive effect (often in ways unobserved) is in "Man, know thyself!" and engaging in constant self introspection. The only ones we have control over is ourselves. Naturally, I'm not talking about when we're children but I mean as adults. A lot of us are dealt shitty hands and if we survive it we have to decide how we play those cards. Self control (over thought, word and deed) brings a lot of peace. I'd like to think I'm not lying on a bed dying quite yet Same here so we have to learn the trick to making this place more tolerable and becoming better people while we're at it ;-) In his poem Human Pride, Marx admits that his aim is not to improve the world, reform or revolutionize it, but simply to ruin it and enjoy it being ruined: With disdain I will throw my gauntlet full in the face of the world, And see the collapse of this pygmy giant whose fall will not stifle my ardor. Then will I wander godlike and victorious through the ruins of the world And, giving my words an active force, I will feel equal to the Creator. “Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking in the radio for the announcer.” – Nasseim Haramein, Director of Research for the Resonance Project |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77899112 United States10/28/2019 11:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I wonder could your 'lusts of aliveness' (which I love as a description btw) translate to Selfishness? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77963671 Maybe, its just that I am alive and my body wants stuff. I can indulge it or manage it. ...I believe evil is naturally seductive and that it takes *deliberation* (fair translation of your *action*?) to override our default nature - selfishness. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77963671 Maybe, but @TlvmmCpoft was implying actual action... moving. And that is what I was referring to. I believe that this: 'its tricky as all **** to get out' is nothing more than than a trick, an illusion, a convenient excuse, if you will, designed to encourage/reinforce our selfish default, and ultimately, prevent us from discovering The Path... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77963671 Maybe, but its a pretty good trick in my experience :) ...and that God gives us very simply the counter to that trick: Pray Ceaselessly... and I wonder if your 'you have to be faithful' comment means that you would agree with my conclusion? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77963671 Well, I do pray a lot, there is no doubt. It's not the praying that does anything though, I suppose. Its the relationship. It's like having a friend that you never talk to would sorta defeat the purpose. So, I try to talk and I try to listen. I have, quite literally, saved lives in emergency situations - difficultly and with risk to myself - while others stood to the side and did nothing but panic or pray. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft No, prayer is not the answer to tangible problems in this life. Doing something is. I was a Paramedic (yeah, NREMT-P, full deal) for some years, before I lost all faith in the AMA dictated career path I had chosen... I prayed, believe me. I prayed and worked. I like to think I was good at what I did, but I knew I had screwed up before and probably would again. I took every bit of help I might be able to get. Not sure what you were thinking when you dived into that pool, or came up under the dude, but at some point wasn't there an "Oh god, oh god, now is the moment to give a friend a little help..."? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 77899112 United States10/28/2019 11:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 77347043 Poland10/28/2019 11:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I was a Paramedic (yeah, NREMT-P, full deal) for some years, before I lost all faith in the AMA dictated career path I had chosen... I prayed, believe me. I prayed and worked. I like to think I was good at what I did, but I knew I had screwed up before and probably would again. I took every bit of help I might be able to get. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77899112 Not sure what you were thinking when you dived into that pool, or came up under the dude, but at some point wasn't there an "Oh god, oh god, now is the moment to give a friend a little help..."? The only thing going on in my head was swearing as I dove in and wondering if I was going to die. No gods involved. I'm a strong swimmer, had Navy swimming instructors, have swam extensively...but despite that (or because of that) I also know that was pretty much the stupidest thing to do. Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 10/28/2019 11:59 PM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
