"Look a great crowd.... these are the ones that come out of the great tribulation"

The crowd that goes through great tribulation are the ones Jesus kills on the day He returns.

M't:25:40-41:
And the King shall answer and say unto them,
Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren,
ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me,
ye cursed,
into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
Re:19:21:
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse,
which sword proceeded out of his mouth:
and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Isa:65:12-14:
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
my servants shall eat,
but ye shall be hungry:
behold,
my servants shall drink,
but ye shall be thirsty:
behold,
my servants shall rejoice,
but ye shall be ashamed:
Behold,
my servants shall sing for joy of heart,
but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart,
and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

That means Re:7 includes the people that will be alive for 1,000 years (Re:20:4 group) as well as the group that appears before God at the Great White Throne event

John's vision in Rv7 is both groups, the 144,000 chosen to serve as assistant kings in heaven (the first resurrection in 1914, Rv20), and the open invitation great crowd who inherit the earth, beneficiaries of the 1,000 year reign of Christ, the meek who inherit the earth.

Joh:1:35-40:
Again the next day after John stood,
and two of his disciples;
And looking upon Jesus as he walked,
he saith,
Behold the Lamb of God!
And the two disciples heard him speak,
and they followed Jesus.
Then Jesus turned,
and saw them following,
and saith unto them,
What seek ye?
They said unto him,
Rabbi,
(which is to say,
being interpreted,
Master,) where dwellest thou?
He saith
unto them, Come and see.
They came and saw where he dwelt,
and abode with him that day:
for it was about the tenth hour.
One of the two which heard John speak,
and followed him,
was Andrew,
Simon Peter's brother.
Joh:21:23-25:
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren,
that that disciple should not die:
yet Jesus said not unto him,
He shall not die;
but,
If I will that he tarry till I come,
what is that to thee?
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things,
and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
And there are also many other things which Jesus did,
the which,
if they should be written every one,
I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.
Amen.
There is more than a full year in the Gospel of John the Baptist before Matthew and Mark pick things up as they go from Jesus returning from the 40 days in the wilderness until the arrest of John. Did you know John the Baptist is the only person named John in that Gospel.

Who is the lady if it is not Mary of Bethany, aka the beloved disciple.

2Jo:1:1:
The elder unto the elect lady and her children,
whom I love in the truth;
and not I only,
but also all they that have known the truth;
Lu:10:38-42:
Now it came to pass,
as they went,
that he entered into a certain village:
and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.
And she had a sister called Mary,
which also sat at Jesus' feet,
and heard his word.
But Martha was cumbered about much serving,
and came to him,
and said,
Lord,
dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone?
bid her therefore that she help me.
And Jesus answered and said unto her,
Martha,
Martha,
thou art careful and troubled about many things:
But one thing is needful:
and Mary hath chosen that good part,
which shall not be taken away.

6. What did the Bible Students believe about the great crowd?

6 In his vision, John saw that group “standing before the throne and before the Lamb.” (Rev. 7:9) Those words led the Bible Students to conclude that, like the 144,000, the great crowd would reside in heaven. If both the 144,000 and the great crowd were to live in heaven, how would one group differ from the other? The Bible Students thought that the great crowd must be made up of Christians who had not been fully obedient to God while on earth. Although leading reasonably clean lives, some of them may have remained in Christendom’s churches. The Bible Students concluded that such ones demonstrated a measure of zeal but not enough to rule with Jesus. Because their love for God had not been sufficiently fervent, the great crowd would qualify to be in heaven before the throne but not to sit on thrones.

And the robes and palms are symbolic.

But the crowd is real.

Not a mob or an army.

A crowd.

Trufax--the island of Patmos was and still is heavily populated with Amarita Muscaris.

IF john was really there it is likely he ate them as a source of food---basically--John was tripping balls.

No wonder he had such great visions, I remember a few from the 60s myself.

.
... describes the peeps before The Throne at SEAL 6 ...
.
... few there are who realize WE ARE CURRENTLY IN THE GREAT-IN-LENGTH-OF-TIME TRIBULATION ...
.
... and when that space event occurs the peeps left on earth will think the leader who comes on the scene is JESUS ...
.

7. Who, according to the Bible Students, would live on earth during the Millennium, and what did the Bible Students believe about the faithful men of old?

7 Who, then, would live on earth? The Bible Students believed that after the 144,000 and the great crowd were gathered to heaven, millions of others would be granted life on earth to experience the blessings of Christ’s Millennial Reign. The Bible Students did not expect those millions to serve Jehovah before the start of Christ’s Reign. Rather, it was thought that this group would be educated in Jehovah’s ways during the Millennium. Thereafter, those who conformed to Jehovah’s standards would be blessed with everlasting life on earth, whereas those who rebelled would be destroyed. The Bible Students also thought that perhaps some who would serve as earthly “princes” during that time—including the resurrected “ancient worthies” (faithful men who died before Christ)—would somehow be rewarded with heavenly life at the end of the Millennium.—Ps. 45:16.

Revelation 7:14

“And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

That about settles that.

8. What three groups seemed to have a place in God’s purpose?

8 Thus, the Bible Students felt that there were three groups: (1) the 144,000, who would rule with Jesus in heaven; (2) the great crowd of less zealous Christians, who would stand before the throne of Jesus in heaven; and (3) millions of people who would be educated in Jehovah’s ways on earth during Christ’s Thousand Year Reign. * In Jehovah’s due time, however, the light of truth began to shine ever brighter on this topic.—Prov. 4:18.

very nice thread OP

You have the right to delete anything you want in your threads, but you can't delete from your mind what you saw

The Great Crowd that is in Heaven Revelation 19:1

It stands, you will wish you never were born.

Edit

I made an error, thinking that my comment was deleted, But It wasn't, since this isn't the thread where it was made.



In that respect, I kinda owe DGN, sorry about that, but not really.

said comment found here
Thread: Millions of people are in heaven, really? According to who and doing what? If so how did they get to earth?

Last Edited by 232 on 12/03/2019 12:33 PM

No problem but which comment?

At the 1935 convention, a great many with the earthly hope got baptized (See paragraph 9)

9. (a) In what way could the great crowd on earth stand “before the throne and before the Lamb”? (b) Why does this understanding of Revelation 7:9 make sense?

9 In 1935 the identity of the great crowd in John’s vision was clarified. Jehovah’s Witnesses came to realize that the great crowd do not literally have to be in heaven to stand “before the throne and before the Lamb.” Rather, their position is figurative. Even though they would live on earth, the great crowd could stand “before the throne” by recognizing Jehovah’s authority and by submitting to his sovereignty. (Isa. 66:1) They could stand “before the Lamb” by exercising faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. Similarly, at Matthew 25:31, 32, “all the nations”—including the wicked—are said to be “gathered before” Jesus on his glorious throne. Clearly, all these nations are, not in heaven, but on earth. This adjusted understanding makes sense. It explains why the Bible does not say that the great crowd is raised to heaven. Only one group is promised everlasting life in heaven—the 144,000, who will “rule as kings over the earth” with Jesus.—Rev. 5:10.

10. Why would it be necessary for the great crowd to be educated in Jehovah’s ways before the Millennium?

10 Since 1935, Jehovah’s Witnesses have thus understood that the great crowd of John’s vision is made up of a group of faithful Christians who have the prospect of living forever on earth. In order to survive the great tribulation, the great crowd would have to be educated in Jehovah’s ways before the Millennium begins. They would need to show strong faith in order to “succeed in escaping all these things that must occur” before Christ’s Thousand Year Reign.—Luke 21:34-36.

11. Why might some Bible Students have thought that some would perhaps be raised to heaven after the Millennium?

11 What about the view that some exemplary ones on earth would be raised to heaven after the Millennium? That possibility was suggested years ago in the February 15, 1913, issue of The Watch Tower. One could have reasoned, ‘Why would faithful men of old receive a mere earthly inheritance but Christians who were somewhat negligent be rewarded with life in heaven?’ Of course, that thinking was influenced by two incorrect assumptions: (1) that the great crowd would reside in heaven and (2) that the great crowd would be made up of less zealous Christians.

Mediator [ death of the human covenanter] is only needed for a covenant, such as the law covenant, or the " covenant for a kingdom" with the "little flock".

It's not the same thing as being, for instance, the "way" to Almighty God Jehovah in a prayer that is asked "in the name of His son, Jesus Christ."
There, Jesus is the "WAY", Shiloh, "he to whom it* belongs".

* "it"- "the gently-going waters of Shiloah", for instance.

Most interesting explanation, I never understood the GB's claim, and they never prayed to Jehovah in their own names, only in Jesus'. If I remember right they may have said "In the strictest sense" they are the mediator, is this what your explaining?

Last Edited by DGN on 12/07/2019 10:31 AM

This is likely the beginning of divine judgement, the great tribulation, meanwhile we are in 'critical times hard to deal with';
"After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory. 2And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a place where every unclean spirit and every unclean and hated bird lurks! 3For because of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, all the nations have fallen victim, and the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury.”
4And I heard another voice out of heaven say:
“Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6Repay her in the way she treated others, yes, pay her back double for the things she has done; in the cup she has mixed, mix a double portion for her. 7To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.’ 8That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong." Rv18

Last Edited by DGN on 12/07/2019 11:10 PM

12-13. What do both the anointed and the great crowd recognize about their reward?

12 As we have seen, however, since 1935, Jehovah’s Witnesses have clearly understood that the survivors of Armageddon are the great crowd of John’s vision. They will “come out of the great tribulation” right here on earth, and they will “keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: ‘Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.’” (Rev. 7:10, 14) Furthermore, the Scriptures teach that those who are resurrected to heavenly life receive “something better” than do the faithful men of old. (Heb. 11:40) Our brothers accordingly began enthusiastically inviting people to serve Jehovah with the hope of living forever on earth.

DGN or DraGoN

In the end your all gonna find out that you had it wrong.

During that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. 2 And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach and to everlasting contempt.
3 “And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever.
4 “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.” Da12