Does baptism establish salvation?

yes its absolutely necessary but does
not guarantee

to be saved:
must have jesus christ king of your soul
must not reject any truth
how does jesus christ get in your soul?
essentially via baptism
explicitly through the miracle of the Holy Spirit turning
bread and wine into Body and Blood of Christ
although those are not necessarily the only ways

Does an unqualified baptism have any value to God?

of course it does imo

no one will go to hell on technicalities

if you love God above all other things you will surely without any doubt go to heaven

What I mean is if the person has not displayed godly devotion with accurate knowledge of his assignment, is the baptism valid or meaningless?

being saved requires and act of faith
if there is no act of faith then much work is left to be done

belief/trust/ faith in Jesus and in his blood as payment for your sins justifies you to God
no work

good thief was saved by an act of faith
not the same things as works
an act of faith is required for salvation

Exactly;
"Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? 15 If any brothers or sisters are lacking clothing and enough food for the day, 16 yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? 17 So, too, faith by itself, without works, is dead.
Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that his faith was active along with his works and his faith was perfected by his works, and the scripture was fulfilled that says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness,” and he came to be called Jehovah’s friend.
24 You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone" Ja2:14

Pretty sure that the first reference to what Baptism represents, is in Ezekiel ch 36: Father Says There

22. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

(In vs 26-27, HE Gives Witness of The Born-Again Life)

26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


28. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.




This ^ The Father offered to Israel, the Hebrews.

THIS is what Jesus Expected Nicodemus to have some knowledge and Awareness of in John ch 3. Yet, Jesus Witnesses 3x to Nic about being Born-Again and finally says in verse 10 "Art thou A Master Of Israel (pharisee) and knowest not of these things?"


What is "salvation"??? Rhetorically speaking? Being "saved" isn't Being Born-Again.

Jesus Witnesses to the super-Christians of matt 7:22 who had "Done Miracles, Cast-Out demons, and Prophesied In HIS Name" that because they remained "workers of iniquity", HE Didn't KNOW Them...

We are "workers of iniquity", iniquity being self-will, until Father Gives Us that NEW Heart Of HIS Flesh; THIS Happening when we are Born-Again Ezk 36:26-27


So, if "salvation" in your mind is Living IN, With, Through The Father and With Christ Jesus, maybe there's a Reason Jesus Told Nicodemus: "Marvel not that I Say unto you, Ye MUST Be Born-Again!" John 3:7


I was Given To KNOW By God The Holy Spirit, while writing a witness 15yrs ago: "Anyone who ever Loved Christ Jesus With A True heart, even if only as a child, will not be lost or condemned."

Not being lost or condemned is what being "saved" means to me. Certainly A Great Blessing, but maybe not what you expect...


Does being Baptized matter? It didn't concern the chosen people who chose to ignore Ezekiel ch 36.

I only found Ezekiel 36:26-27 fifteen-sixteen years ago because I was challenged to prove that there was any reference to The Born-Again Life in the OT.

I found verses 26-27 by entering words I Knew that described my Relationship With Father God. The Proof Is Certainly there, if you are Born-Again and KNOW what Living Your Life In and With The Father means...


But back to Baptism and salvation...
If you Love God and Trust HIM Fully, Christ Jesus Made The Way Unto The Father... Up to you to make your Leap Of Faith, to surrender your all Unto God The Father.

If you would BE HIS, Time To Tell HIM So...

Maranatha!!!

Water baptism is a sign of repentance, that is necessary to be reborn of the Holy Spirit, Spiritual baptism.

John 3:3-8

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

yes clearly baptism is absolutely essential to salvation
but also those that love God above all other things will go to heaven
so even if you are at the moment before
your soul leaves your body
jesus christ as high priest could still administer baptism
to you because he has no limitations
or restrictions on his authority or jurisdiction or power
but clearly i wouldnt want to rely on that possibility
but there is always hope for someone

___________________________________
They’re both right. |
You know. |
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If all who love God go to heaven why does he say that 'little flock' invited is 144,000?
"Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth." Rv14

Physical Baptism does not have value to God. It has value to the community that worships in the Christians faith.

It like being "jumped in" / hazed into a gang. It means you you can be trusted as a community member.

As far as God though goes it means changing your lives focus on ethical behaviors and practices. You really don't need to go through a ceremonial baptism for that. It is just best to have a community to guide and teach you if you don't already know how to be a civilized ethical person.

Also just to you know. God does not need to be worshipped either. That too is something done for the community and does help individuals in the community to network to get their needs met in a more efficient manner.

What is good for your soul is gratitude, which is all god ever wanted from its creation in the first place. Worshipping is a manmade construct to help people to find the time to appreciate living and to teach children good habits in hopes they find gratitude in life.

So, be thankful and give thanks often for being one of life's lottery winners. The act of having gratitude tends to relieve stress and leads to a healthier life and a better outlook on life in general.

With this comprehensive explanation the intergalactically coveted "THIS BUD'S FOR YOU AWARD" is hereby bestoyed on My Fear for spiritualy critically thinking!



Last Edited by DGN on 12/08/2019 12:07 PM

Since you dropped the absolutely... how the hell, would you explain the thief on the cross?

*love God above all other things
much more than 144k will be saved
St Thomas Aquinas made an irrefutable case that
the number of saved must at very least be equal
to the number of fallen angels
but that the number would most likely be more than the number of fallen angels
the case is irrefutable

he must have been baptized before his soul
left his body
christ has no limitations at all
but even more likely when the spear got thrusted under
the ribs the water that sprayed out hit him
and the high priest on the cross baptized him

No, it is only an outward symbol of your faith in Jesus. Salvation comes from surrendering your life to Jesus, accepting Him as your savior.

Ummmm... Worldly critical thinking

Sorry... Word search added the word hell in there

Why is it only Christians think they need to be saved from something??????

because before baptism we only have one path to go, and that is to jericho, because a robber(lucifer) stole our grace

Did I read over something?

Is that a rhetorical question?
Why would it not be of value to God?

The newborn is a human being.
I could end it here...
But, your question is stupidifying.

Now, the Devil has "no interest in salvation."
If God requires salvation, and the Devil has no interest in it. Is it, for this newborn a twilight of Light vs Dark, already at that early an age?

So, this innocent child already carries the heaviest burden one can possibly carry...

Your colors are obvious bro.

Stop shilling this brilliant forum. Stupid dumb fucking assbrain.

No, just a wet baby.

LMAO
You cults have to do backflips in logic to make scripture fit your views.
The only baptism you MUST have for eternal life is the baptism of the Spirit.
Water is symbolic and in no way a requirement for eternal life.

Babies have no sins to repent of, neither accurately know or have a track record of dedication severing God, proclaiming his kingdom. Work on your language skills.

Last Edited by DGN on 12/08/2019 04:43 PM